NFL 2018-19 season discussion...

[jerebear21]

I would love to actually have an intelligent argument with folks who don’t think Tom Brady is the GOAT.

[cdnglf]

I would love to actually have an intelligent argument with folks who don’t think Tom Brady is the GOAT.

 

Who’s won the most MVPs?

[Titleist 670]

I always loved how back in the day, people said Brady was only good because of his defense. This was after the Pats nearly beat Indy in Indy when Brady had receivers like Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney.

 

Then they went out and got Moss, and Brady set the single season TD record. Then everyone said Brady was only good because he had Moss.

 

He literally can't win with the critics. 6 Superbowl wins, and has led the 2 greatest comebacks in Superbowl history. Enough said.

[raynorfan1]

Mark rypien came to mind when I think of super bowl winning qb who was a system qb.

 

Peyton final year was game manager. Trent dilfer super bowl year was a game manager.

 

So we have seen what a game manager qb look like.

 

Sure, or watch Brady vs the Rams. Both times.

 

I don't fundamentally disagree with this. And it's part of what makes Brady great. When the gameplan calls for him to manage an effective game and execute, he's willing to do that. Somebody like Drew Brees? Aaron Rodgers? I'm not sure they can manage a game like that when the gameplan requires it. Never seen them do it.

 

And winning matters.

[Titleist 670]

I would love to actually have an intelligent argument with folks who don't think Tom Brady is the GOAT.

 

There's just no argument to be made at this point.

 

The only argument might be for Montana, but he's 16-7 in the postseason, Brady is 30-10. Per 16 game averages in the postseason, Montana is around 23 TD's and 10 int, Brady is about 30 TD's and 13 INT.

 

They played in different era's, so the raw passing numbers aren't apples to apples, but it's not like Montana is crushing Brady either. And people will point to Montana being 4-0 in the SB, but I'll take 6 wins and making the big game 5 more times over 4-0.

 

Brady has also only been bounced twice in the first round, Montana 4 times, and Manning 9 times. Manning is 14-13 in the postseason all time.

[jerebear21]

I remember watching joe Montana play for the chiefs in the last playoff game. Joe wasn’t the same late in his career.

 

Brady in Kansas was one for the ages.

[highergr0und]

I think Brady is the GOAT given his winning record. Being the GOAT does not mean most gifted player ever, it means he leveraged his considerable talents to win all those MVPs and Super Bowls.

 

To me, a stronger argument is that that he did all this without being the most physically gifted QB. Manning, Rodgers and other are better, even many experts agree but Brady's intangibles led him to what he is. It's ok.

 

The ball deflating is a non issue to me. I mean you had plenty of support from other players and teams saying they all did it.

[adam667220]

I remember watching joe Montana play for the chiefs in the last playoff game. Joe wasn't the same late in his career.

 

Brady in Kansas was one for the ages.

 

1. It's Missouri.

2. It was a perfectly good game, but I wouldn't call his performance "one for the ages." Let's not pretend that they didn't blow a 14 point lead. Then, let's not pretend that him picking apart an atrocious defense who gave him wide open receivers to convert every 3rd down was a feat. Not taking away that he obviously made the right reads and throws, but this is what he was going up against.

 

 

 

For reference, the first down marker is at the 27. Every deep defender is 3-10 yards beyond the first down yardage. Brady actually threw to the most covered guy at the bottom of the screen. The rest may have been TDs.

 

And yes, I'm from Kansas City. Yes, I was at the AFC championship game. Yes, I'm still bitter. lol

[scratchswinger]

Anyone trying to argue that Brady is not the GOAT will have a tall mountain to climb at this point. The fact that he has won the most SB's, one as a rookie and the latest as the oldest QB ever to do it is pretty remarkable simply because of the longevity. Part of being great is also being available, the guy is doing it at 41 years old.

[jerebear21]

going into kansas city* and pulling out a win in overtime to seal a 9th super bowl birth is my definition of one for the ages; it was a highly entertaining game.

[scratchswinger]

I remember watching joe Montana play for the chiefs in the last playoff game. Joe wasn't the same late in his career.

 

Brady in Kansas was one for the ages.

 

1. It's Missouri.

2. It was a perfectly good game, but I wouldn't call his performance "one for the ages." Let's not pretend that they didn't blow a 14 point lead. Then, let's not pretend that him picking apart an atrocious defense who gave him wide open receivers to convert every 3rd down was a feat. Not taking away that he obviously made the right reads and throws, but this is what he was going up against.

 

 

 

For reference, the first down marker is at the 27. Every deep defender is 3-10 yards beyond the first down yardage. Brady actually threw to the most covered guy at the bottom of the screen. The rest may have been TDs.

 

And yes, I'm from Kansas City. Yes, I was at the AFC championship game. Yes, I'm still bitter. lol

 

KC defense has been bad for a while now. They make a few big plays but give up a ton of points and allow a lot of big plays. Brady playing well against them is really not a shocker, they were shredded all year.

[scratchswinger]

going into kansas city* and pulling out a win in overtime to seal a 9th super bowl birth is my definition of one for the ages; it was a highly entertaining game.

 

I don't know why you are so impressed with this feat... KC is literally one of the worst defenses in the NFL. Is it the fact they won on the road in a tough environment? What about that game is so impressive to you?

[jerebear21]

iono, Kansas City has always been a tough place to play regardless of the year; I remember when Green Bay with Aaron Rodgers as a 12-0 or 13-0 team going there and losing.

 

And for the 2018 season:

 

"Kansas City’s defense has allowed 34.8 points per game on the road in the 2018 season, including the postseason, and just 17.4 points per game at home."

 

So no, it was not a sure thing Brady was going to win against an allegedly soft "defense" at home.

[jerebear21]

i remember that green bay vs kansas city game; the spread was 10.5

 

it was an easy fade against the packs.

[highergr0und]

I would love to actually have an intelligent argument with folks who don't think Tom Brady is the GOAT.

 

At this point it seems hard to have an intelligent argument with you.... I have never seen an analyst or football expert argue that he's the most gifted QB of all time yet most agree he is the GOAT. People on this thread agree with that sentiment. You seem dead set on trying to prove that wrong and keep throwing out a game against a bad defense coached by a guy notorious for coaching horribly in the playoffs as a showcase game for Brady. It's not his finest game by a long shot.

[scratchswinger]

Chiefs Home Games and QB Faced:

 

Niners - Jimmy Garoppolo 2.5 Quarters - 27 points

Jaguars - Bortles - 14 points

Bengals - Dalton - 10 points

Broncos - Keenum - 23 points

Cardinals - Rosen - 14 points

Ravens - Jackson - 24 points

Chargers - Rivers - 29 points

Raiders - Carr - 03 Points

 

Two playoff teams and one All Pro QB. Very impressive

[bubbagump]

Chiefs Home Games and QB Faced:

 

Niners - Jimmy Garoppolo 2.5 Quarters - 27 points

Jaguars - Bortles - 14 points

Bengals - Dalton - 10 points

Broncos - Keenum - 23 points

Cardinals - Rosen - 14 points

Ravens - Jackson - 24 points

Chargers - Rivers - 29 points

Raiders - Carr - 03 Points

 

Two playoff teams and one All Pro QB. Very impressive

 

The mere notion of insinuating KC's defense wasn't atrocious, should show how much grasping is going on here.

[jerebear21]

They did shut out the colts offense at home the previous week. But let’s not count that either.

[jerebear21]

Colts - Luck - 13 points

[bubbagump]

They did shut out the colts offense at home the previous week. But let's not count that either.

 

I dont think that means what you think it means.

 

Given the weather conditions of the game, and seeing how bad the Colts played on offense, Im not sure the KC defense gets that much credit for that game for me.

[jerebear21]

I would love to actually have an intelligent argument with folks who don't think Tom Brady is the GOAT.

 

At this point it seems hard to have an intelligent argument with you.... I have never seen an analyst or football expert argue that he's the most gifted QB of all time yet most agree he is the GOAT. People on this thread agree with that sentiment. You seem dead set on trying to prove that wrong and keep throwing out a game against a bad defense coached by a guy notorious for coaching horribly in the playoffs as a showcase game for Brady. It's not his finest game by a long shot.

 

1. I was responding to cdngolf

2. No one here suggest it was his finest game.

3. The narrative leading into that playoff game was the new mvp challenging the GOAT and possibly passing of the torch.

4. Kansas City is a heck of a tough spot to play at regardless of how soft the defense may be.

[jerebear21]

They did shut out the colts offense at home the previous week. But let's not count that either.

 

I dont think that means what you think it means.

 

0-9 on third downs and 2 to 1 in time of possession. A block punt score and a garbage time td by Andrew luck. Do you even watch football brah?

[bubbagump]

shut·out

Dictionary result for shutout

 

 

/ˈSHətˌout/

 

noun: shut-out

• 
  
  a competition or game in which the losing side fails to score.
  
  

[jerebear21]

shut·out

Dictionary result for shutout

 

 

/ˈSHətˌout/

 

noun: shut-out

• 
  
  a competition or game in which the losing side fails to score.
  
  

 

 

yeah i can edit to if I wanted to but nah; that offense was shut out in my books; how convenient that weather played a factor for colts offense but not for chiefs offense;

[bubbagump]

The weather is just a factor in the equation, not the end all be all. Its not out of the norm for a dome team to have issues late in the year in a cold/snowy venue. The Chiefs offense was basically historic, and likely zero is stopping them so I dont really think comparing anybody to them is a good barometer. Just to me watching that game, there seemed to be a lot of chances the Colts had to make it a game or get back in it, but they couldn't really get out of their own way vs a defensive domination by KC.

 

The moral of the point I think though, is that the KC defense was a unit that was very subpar, and that good performances were more the exception to getting shredded. So pointing to their defense as something of note, seemed to be a bit misguided.

[jerebear21]

if it fits your narrative then cool

 

chiefs defense did its job; they were gas towards the end in the conference championship. A coin filp would have changed the narrative;

 

I'd argue it was the chiefs OFFENSE that fail its own team. They couldn't sustain drives in the first half, forcing their own defense to be on the field longer than usual.

[scratchswinger]

Chiefs D was horrible all season. Anyone that watched them would have recognized this, stop trying to argue that they were anything but bad. Tom Brady has had a lot of games to put on the mantle, scoring 30 something on a bottom 5 D would not be one of those games. Winning in KC is a great win no doubt but that D is bad....

[jerebear21]

no one here said chiefs defense was good; I merely suggested they did their job at home.

[scratchswinger]

no one here said chiefs defense was good; I merely suggested they did their job at home.

 

So Brady had a "win for the ages" against a D that was not good? You are confusing us now....

[jerebear21]

no one here said chiefs defense was good; I merely suggested they did their job at home.

 

So Brady had a "win for the ages" against a D that was not good? You are confusing us now....

 

a 41 year old making the super bowl, winning in kansas city against the league MVP. Yes that qualifies it for me. Especially since this is his last super bowl run.

 

This isn't like lebron james who made 9 NBA finals and decided to go West so he wouldn't lose a record 7th.