Arm off Chest - Feels for...

[MadGolfer76]

Experimenting with this move after watching some Monte and Whitaker videos. Is the feeling down, out, or both? What is the right feel here?

 

Been using it with fairly good success with short irons, and it has added back a little bit of snap to my shots. Everything feels (and sounds) pretty good, but I am guessing the club is coming in a little steep, with the higher iron loft letting me get away with it. When I move to the longer clubs, I get a little block/fade going if I'm not careful.

 

For those of you *who do this well*, what are you thinking about from the top? Bump, dump, and turn?

 

Thx,

 

MG

[dlanerie]

Feel like you throw the hands down towards the target line from the top as your starting downswing move.

[MadGolfer76]

Feel like you throw the hands down towards the target line from the top as your starting downswing move.

 

And that is different from pulling the handle/handle dragging? Because it is a downward move?

[dlanerie]

Its not straight down from the top. It's more down AND out, or towards the target line.

 

If hands initially go down, you'll steepen the shaft. If hands go more out, it'll shallow the shaft and give you room to swing and get the left arm off the chest.

 

This video helped me visualize it better. I initially had trouble feeling this move from Montes drive 4 dough.

 

 

[Hilts1969]

Feel like you throw the hands down towards the target line from the top as your starting downswing move.

 

Saying towards the target line is of no use to the op. What point? Just behind the ball a foot behind opposite right leg. All 3 create a different club path. You can throw the hands at the target line and have them start going to or away from the ball

[MadGolfer76]

Practiced today. Needed to feel like my trail arm was going to come in underneath my forward arm at impact. Never exactly happened that way, but freed me up to swing hard at it.

 

Thanks, guys.

[wmblake2000]

Practiced today. Needed to feel like my trail arm was going to come in underneath my forward arm at impact. Never exactly happened that way, but freed me up to swing hard at it.

 

Thanks, guys.

 

I know that feel, plus maybe a little rotated open (external rotation of the shoulder). I often really key in on r elbow for downswing.

[dlygrisse]

Practiced today. Needed to feel like my trail arm was going to come in underneath my forward arm at impact. Never exactly happened that way, but freed me up to swing hard at it.

 

Thanks, guys.

 

Sort of an underhand toss move? I used that though many years ago with good success....hmmmm......

[MadGolfer76]

Practiced today. Needed to feel like my trail arm was going to come in underneath my forward arm at impact. Never exactly happened that way, but freed me up to swing hard at it.

 

Thanks, guys.

 

I know that feel, plus maybe a little rotated open (external rotation of the shoulder). I often really key in on r elbow for downswing.

 

It kind of felt like trying to slip my right elbow in under my left arm while rotating the whole mess forward, if that makes sense?

[MadGolfer76]

Practiced today. Needed to feel like my trail arm was going to come in underneath my forward arm at impact. Never exactly happened that way, but freed me up to swing hard at it.

 

Thanks, guys.

 

Sort of an underhand toss move? I used that though many years ago with good success....hmmmm......

 

Yeah. Something like that.

[wmblake2000]

Practiced today. Needed to feel like my trail arm was going to come in underneath my forward arm at impact. Never exactly happened that way, but freed me up to swing hard at it.

 

Thanks, guys.

 

Sort of an underhand toss move? I used that though many years ago with good success....hmmmm......

 

For me, feels more like that throw a shortstop makes, kinda 3/4 sidearm, submarine... And especially with driver, i need to pay attention, keep r hip deep and move l arm away from chest.

[Nard_S]

Practiced today. Needed to feel like my trail arm was going to come in underneath my forward arm at impact. Never exactly happened that way, but freed me up to swing hard at it.

 

Thanks, guys.

 

I know that feel, plus maybe a little rotated open (external rotation of the shoulder). I often really key in on r elbow for downswing.

 

It kind of felt like trying to slip my right elbow in under my left arm while rotating the whole mess forward, if that makes sense?

 

Yes and a measure of the right arm unfolding too.

[MadGolfer76]

Practiced today. Needed to feel like my trail arm was going to come in underneath my forward arm at impact. Never exactly happened that way, but freed me up to swing hard at it.

 

Thanks, guys.

 

I know that feel, plus maybe a little rotated open (external rotation of the shoulder). I often really key in on r elbow for downswing.

 

It kind of felt like trying to slip my right elbow in under my left arm while rotating the whole mess forward, if that makes sense?

 

Yes and a measure of the right arm unfolding too.

 

The unfolding seemed to happen closer to the strike and through it?

[johnrobison]

Left-arm only swings are good. It's pretty tough to hit a good left-arm shot without rotating open and accelerating the arm on a good path at the same time.

[Nard_S]

Practiced today. Needed to feel like my trail arm was going to come in underneath my forward arm at impact. Never exactly happened that way, but freed me up to swing hard at it.

 

Thanks, guys.

 

I know that feel, plus maybe a little rotated open (external rotation of the shoulder). I often really key in on r elbow for downswing.

 

It kind of felt like trying to slip my right elbow in under my left arm while rotating the whole mess forward, if that makes sense?

 

Yes and a measure of the right arm unfolding too.

 

The unfolding seemed to happen closer to the strike and through it?

 

There should be some unfolding in the throw down off chest, not a tremendous amount, 10-15 degrees but it's important to do this too. A sense of wide arc and hands away from body contributes to success.

 

Stand in front of mirror with trail side to it. Setup go to top. Now without moving forearm angle (or body), drop elbow till it touches torso via external rotation of shoulder, notice shaft plane, then allow forearm angle to unfold to drop hands a few inches(3-4), note shaft plane again. It will be flatter. Really unfold you'll look like Sergio lol.

 

IMHO, arm off the chest is not just a way to get hands in front of torso but it is also a way to drop shoulder girdle and rotate back with low lead shoulder. There's an AMG video showing that pro's drop both shoulders then rotate back and most duffers diagonally drop rear and never drop front and end up with too high of a left side.Core muscles really come into play in all with this. I've been screwing with this for a while and its incredible when done right but I'm fighting decades of doing it wrong, so it's been a slog.

[PJ1120]

Stand in front of mirror with trail side to it. Setup go to top. Now without moving forearm angle (or body), drop elbow till it touches torso via external rotation of shoulder, notice shaft plane, then allow forearm angle to unfold to drop hands a few inches(3-4), note shaft plane again. It will be flatter. Really unfold you'll look like Sergio lol.

 

Nard....are you saying the club head drops down low than the hands at P6?

[Nard_S]

Stand in front of mirror with trail side to it. Setup go to top. Now without moving forearm angle (or body), drop elbow till it touches torso via external rotation of shoulder, notice shaft plane, then allow forearm angle to unfold to drop hands a few inches(3-4), note shaft plane again. It will be flatter. Really unfold you'll look like Sergio lol.

 

Nard....are you saying the club head drops down low than the hands at P6?

 

Not really. Just pointing out that the flattened shaft is aided by an unfolding of the right arm too. I'm sure their variations to degree of unfolding but zero unfolding is not desirable. That's been a big mistake in my tinkering in this. A lack of unfolding (or over folding to the top too) plus the lack of low lead shoulder on return.

[PJ1120]

Thanks.......I've been watching some Dahlquist videos and one thing I've noticed is that the CH appears to be below the hands at P6. Makes me think of the motorboat and skier analogy.

[MadGolfer76]

There should be some unfolding in the throw down off chest, not a tremendous amount, 10-15 degrees but it's important to do this too. A sense of wide arc and hands away from body contributes to success.

 

Stand in front of mirror with trail side to it. Setup go to top. Now without moving forearm angle (or body), drop elbow till it touches torso via external rotation of shoulder, notice shaft plane, then allow forearm angle to unfold to drop hands a few inches(3-4), note shaft plane again. It will be flatter. Really unfold you'll look like Sergio lol.

 

IMHO, arm off the chest is not just a way to get hands in front of torso but it is also a way to drop shoulder girdle and rotate back with low lead shoulder. There's an AMG video showing that pro's drop both shoulders then rotate back and most duffers diagonally drop rear and never drop front and end up with too high of a left side.Core muscles really come into play in all with this. I've been screwing with this for a while and its incredible when done right but I'm fighting decades of doing it wrong, so it's been a slog.

 

Okay, so I just got done doing some mirror work, and there is actually more unfolding than I thought there was, comparing back to my range work today. Using this video as a point of reference (and I am saying up front that there is no practical comparison between Couples' swing and mine - only using the video to highlight what I am talking about):

 

 

...at 2:40, that is the lead up condition I am *thinking* to achieve, with my left arm slightly even more off the chest than what you see in the vid, because I am more broad-chested than FC. I never really achieve these actual results, but it is how I am thinking. I am actually trying to get the arm off my chest a little more than FC, because I am more broad-chested than he is. At impact, he still has some right arm bend going as I am guessing he is intending to fire the right hand through, and I have a little less as I don't tend to actively release the same way.

 

Again, not comparing myself to Couples, just using the vid as a point of reference.

[Nard_S]

According to AMG guys most pros have 10 degree right bend at impact.

 

Freddy is old school and rather upright but shallows to get back "on plane". You can see he's unfolding from P5 down.

 

Modern swingers are flatter and unfold earlier perhaps.At least I've seen that in several guys. And often the shaft is freakishly flat when hands are at belt line.

My duffer guess is they can because they unfold earlier than Fred and started process on lower plane. It's taken me months for this bell to ring. External shoulder and pivot might get it done but added unfold does help too. Trick is getting the right mix or alchemy of it all.

[MadGolfer76]

According to AMG guys most pros have 10 degree right bend at impact.

 

Freddy is old school and rather upright but shallows to get back "on plane". You can see he's unfolding from P5 down.

 

Modern swingers are flatter and unfold earlier perhaps.At least I've seen that in several guys. And often the shaft is freakishly flat when hands are at belt line.

My duffer guess is they can because they unfold earlier than Fred and started process on lower plane. It's taken me months for this bell to ring. External shoulder and pivot might get it done but added unfold does help too. Trick is getting the right mix or alchemy of it all.

 

All I know is that I started actively using it today and was 10 years younger all of a sudden. I could go at it as hard as I wanted and the most I ever got offline was a little block if I didn't get the arm off the chest soon enough. Needs a little more time to set, but so long as I focus on impact, it works. I have to get the arm off the chest to get into the position I need through the strike. I don't even really think about where the right arm is; all I am feeling is the position I need to get into.

 

Interesting concept...

[modore]

What is the rotation feel for the left arm as you move it off the chest ?

[MadGolfer76]

What is the rotation feel for the left arm as you move it off the chest ?

 

I lose track of it completely after I initially move it forward from the top. I'm just trying to hit it hard at that point, but I do have a mildly strong grip and passive release into and through the ball. At that point (for me) it is all turn and let things do what they want to.

[wmblake2000]

Trick is getting the right mix or alchemy of it all.

 

Ain't that the truth!

[juststeve]

Left arm pinned to the chest is only a problem for those who try to move the club with their body. Swing the club forward with the arms, allowing the body to respond, and the problem disappears.

 

Steve

[PJ1120]

Left arm pinned to the chest is only a problem for those who try to move the club with their body. Swing the club forward with the arms, allowing the body to respond, and the problem disappears.

 

Steve

 

Steve.....are both of your arms moving at the same speed with no feel of what arm is dominant?

[MadGolfer76]

Left arm pinned to the chest is only a problem for those who try to move the club with their body. Swing the club forward with the arms, allowing the body to respond, and the problem disappears.

 

Steve

 

Which was a habit I was getting into, that I wanted to nip with this kind of intervention.

[juststeve]

Left arm pinned to the chest is only a problem for those who try to move the club with their body. Swing the club forward with the arms, allowing the body to respond, and the problem disappears.

 

Steve

 

Steve.....are both of your arms moving at the same speed with no feel of what arm is dominant?

[juststeve]

Left arm pinned to the chest is only a problem for those who try to move the club with their body. Swing the club forward with the arms, allowing the body to respond, and the problem disappears.

 

Steve

 

Steve.....are both of your arms moving at the same speed with no feel of what arm is dominant?

 

The goal is to swing the club forward with both arms contributing equally. Since we are not machines we need to be on the alert for one arm or the other becoming laggard. When that happens we need to activate the arm that isn't doing its share which for time will feel like that arm is dominant.

 

The point of my post however is that when the arms lead the forward swing and the body responds, the left arm comes off the chest automatically.

 

Steve

[Scottbox]

I like this vid:

 

Zach Allen "Lead arm abduction"