Country Club debate

[LeftDaddy]

Mods, if this belongs in the "clubs" thread, please move, but felt like it could fit / I would get more responses on GGT.

 

I have a question for everyone who has an opinion on this out there. I'll try to keep it brief, but some context is helpful. The basic gist of my question is: what would you do about your golf club membership in my situation?

 

I am currently a member at what I consider to be the best golf club value in town. Nice courses, OK club atmosphere (but not great), and really inexpensive in the grand scheme of things. Very close to my house (7 minute drive). But it annoys me in a handful of ways, enough that I am considering a switch. Food is only just OK. Don't love the "culture".

 

Also, many higher-end clubs in the area have suffered in recent years, such that joining fees at these places are at all-time lows. I'm looking at 3 other clubs.

 

Club A is ultra, ultra supreme...super high-end, literally almost as good as it gets in the country in terms of "niceties". I like the course. The clubhouse is to die for. The cons are that it is about half-hour drive from my house, it can feel a bit stuffy, and it is a "golf-only" club...no pools, tennis, etc for the wife and kids (although we belong to a swim and racquet club as well that provides that stuff). And it ain't cheap (although it is cheaper than it has ever been). And caddies are required for almost every round.

 

Club B is a very high-end, golf-only club as well. A little cheaper upfront than club A, but annual costs would be abut the same. Still about half-hour away. Kind of a slightly cheaper, slightly less posh version of Club A. But the culture / atmosphere isn't as "stuffy"...in fact, pretty relaxed place overall. Caddies are available but not required. No pool or tennis, etc.

 

Club C is a tier or two up from my current country club...nicer, more amenities, but a good bit more expensive. It has the pools, tennis, etc etc. Could be a great family atmosphere type of place. It is 20 minutes from my house. But they seem to nickel and dime you...lots of little tacky add-on fees. And I'm not sure about the culture, and seems pretty crowded.

 

Anyway, I would like to switch, and as for money, I'll say it like this...I can handle any of the options pretty easily, although my nature is to be a value-conscious spender.

 

Have you all found the extra "niceties" to be worth it (those that went that route)? Or do you find that you pay way too much for what you really get? I'm leaning towards staying where I am (warts and all) only because none of the options available to me are perfect. I would appreciate people's thoughts.

[ebrasmus21]

Do you know any current members at Club A? It would be tough for me to want to join Club A unless I knew I could have a regular game with people I enjoy. If yes, then I'd be inclined to give it a good hard look. Absolutely not Club A if you don't know anyone there.

[the bishop]

Based on what you wrote I'd say find a club that has good food in addition to the tennis/pool/spa, etc.. for the fam.

[me05501]

Don't be overly swayed by the idea that you're being offered the deal of a lifetime.

 

Golf is in decline, the target demographic for club membership is aging out, and we're overdue for a recession that will have a lot of people second-guessing their extra expenditures. Methinks club initiation asks will get more favorable yet again.

 

There's only one way to buck this trend, and that's to offer the amenities that attract younger families. Resort-style pools, workout facilities/classes, more food and social options. Clubs that refuse to offer those will continue to see membership declines and will offer better and better deals.

 

I would at least wait out the winter months.

[farmer]

Not really about your situation specifically, but the half hour drive will get to be a chore. Evening nine holes, easy, quick access to a range will all go away because of the drive. Club A requiring a caddie, that's going to get old when you just want a quick, casual round. Club B sounds OK, but still have the drive. Club C, I hate being nickle and dimed. Just tell me what something costs, if the club needs more money, raise dues, but don't pull it out of me in little tacky ways. For me, particularly living in a rural area, the hassle of driving a half hour each way to play a few holes or hit some balls would be a deal breaker.

[augustgolf]

OP - you say that the current golf club to which you belong is OK. But, does it have tennis/pool/etc?

 

While these things are nice (and, while expensive at the club level, less expensive than having your own)....how often would you see your family utilizing these facilities?

 

Does your current club have monthly/annual minimums?

 

If you enjoy your situation, why change? They say the the devil you know is better than the devil you don't.

 

Just my 2 cents

[elwhippy]

As a single man I would prioritise Golf above all the other facilities. As long as the beer is decent and the food of a decent standard then I am happy. But in your position I would seriously talk this through with your family. Club A sounds like it would not accommodate children....Bushwood springs to mind.

[DavePelz4]

With a family, I'd go Club C with no hesitations.

[ebrasmus21]

As a single man I would prioritise Golf above all the other facilities. As long as the beer is decent and the food of a decent standard then I am happy. But in your position I would seriously talk this through with your family. Club A sounds like it would not accommodate children....Bushwood springs to mind.

 

OP belongs to a separate swim/racket club that provides for the kids and wife. The question then becomes would OP quit that racket club in order to accommodate the cost of Club A?

[augustgolf]

As a single man I would prioritise Golf above all the other facilities. As long as the beer is decent and the food of a decent standard then I am happy. But in your position I would seriously talk this through with your family. Club A sounds like it would not accommodate children....Bushwood springs to mind.

 

OP belongs to a separate swim/racket club that provides for the kids and wife. The question then becomes would OP quit that racket club in order to accommodate the cost of Club A?

 

And, distance also would be a factor. We don't know distance to current racquet club with pool and amenities.

 

If it were me alone - I would jump on club A, because they have caddies.

 

Golf, the way it was meant to be played, IMHO

[ebrasmus21]

As a single man I would prioritise Golf above all the other facilities. As long as the beer is decent and the food of a decent standard then I am happy. But in your position I would seriously talk this through with your family. Club A sounds like it would not accommodate children....Bushwood springs to mind.

 

OP belongs to a separate swim/racket club that provides for the kids and wife. The question then becomes would OP quit that racket club in order to accommodate the cost of Club A?

 

And, distance also would be a factor. We don't know distance to current racquet club with pool and amenities.

 

If it were me alone - I would jump on club A, because they have caddies.

 

Golf, the way it was meant to be played, IMHO

 

Good point.

[Ferguson]

Mods, if this belongs in the "clubs" thread, please move, but felt like it could fit / I would get more responses on GGT.

 

I have a question for everyone who has an opinion on this out there. I'll try to keep it brief, but some context is helpful. The basic gist of my question is: what would you do about your golf club membership in my situation?

 

I am currently a member at what I consider to be the best golf club value in town. Nice courses, OK club atmosphere (but not great), and really inexpensive in the grand scheme of things. Very close to my house (7 minute drive). But it annoys me in a handful of ways, enough that I am considering a switch. Food is only just OK. Don't love the "culture".

 

Also, many higher-end clubs in the area have suffered in recent years, such that joining fees at these places are at all-time lows. I'm looking at 3 other clubs.

 

Club A is ultra, ultra supreme...super high-end, literally almost as good as it gets in the country in terms of "niceties". I like the course. The clubhouse is to die for. The cons are that it is about half-hour drive from my house, it can feel a bit stuffy, and it is a "golf-only" club...no pools, tennis, etc for the wife and kids (although we belong to a swim and racquet club as well that provides that stuff). And it ain't cheap (although it is cheaper than it has ever been). And caddies are required for almost every round.

 

Club B is a very high-end, golf-only club as well. A little cheaper upfront than club A, but annual costs would be abut the same. Still about half-hour away. Kind of a slightly cheaper, slightly less posh version of Club A. But the culture / atmosphere isn't as "stuffy"...in fact, pretty relaxed place overall. Caddies are available but not required. No pool or tennis, etc.

 

Club C is a tier or two up from my current country club...nicer, more amenities, but a good bit more expensive. It has the pools, tennis, etc etc. Could be a great family atmosphere type of place. It is 20 minutes from my house. But they seem to nickel and dime you...lots of little tacky add-on fees. And I'm not sure about the culture, and seems pretty crowded.

 

Anyway, I would like to switch, and as for money, I'll say it like this...I can handle any of the options pretty easily, although my nature is to be a value-conscious spender.

 

Have you all found the extra "niceties" to be worth it (those that went that route)? Or do you find that you pay way too much for what you really get? I'm leaning towards staying where I am (warts and all) only because none of the options available to me are perfect. I would appreciate people's thoughts.

 

 

Kinloch your A-CLUB?

 

 

I have played all of them around Richmond. I have friends all around that city. The clubs are very different.

Drive time makes a big difference to me. Closer the better.

 

Do what is right for your family.

Try one for a year.

[Phreddy]

Hard for me to offer an opinion, as an empty nester I don't have to worry much about amenities like junior golf, pools or tennis lessons. But for me, the best course with the best proximity and a tight enough membership so that getting on the course is not difficult. It is funny how clubs, often through downstroke, try to elevate themselves to "elite" status and a certain socio-economic membership. I'm not to overly impressed with myself, and I certainly not impressed by "you" unless you play quickly and putt well. I've only belonged to 3 clubs at different points in my life and if there are 200 golfing members I end up knowing and playing with about a dozen. I'm not being exclusionary, that's just how it shakes out with schedules, personalities, walking/riding yada yada.

 

In sum: Proximity. Quality of the course. Ease of tee time. The rest is incidental.

 

Phred

[LeftDaddy]

Lots of great responses so far. Thanks and keep 'em coming!!!

 

To answer a few questions:

 

- current club does have pool, tennis, etc. Wife enjoys her swim / racquet club more because of her friends, and the pools etc are far better than my country club's. So I'm effectively "paying twice" for that benefit. Add to it that we almost never use the pools because we also live elsewhere in the summer (with pools and a big body of water, etc.)

- I know a couple of folks at Club A but not that well...membership and "culture" is a bit of an unknown for me, although in my preview round the atmosphere was pretty awesome. I know a few guys at Club B and like them. Don't really know anyone at Club C.

- I would quit my current country club but not the swim / racquet club (for my wife's benefit). BUT, she isn't particularly happy about the idea of me spending $$$ for something she gets little benefit from. I understand, but also think she needs to be reminded every so often that she doesn't work, plays tennis 4x / week, has two houses, has her own club, etc etc (know what I mean?). She's great and worth it...but just sayin'...

- Drive time is an issue

- A lot of my rounds currently are of the get around quickly on a late afternoon variety, which makes clubs A and C tough (for a variety of reasons, club B won't really have that same issue)

- As for my current club, it is fine for what it is. It just lacks some of those nice touches. And we barely use the dining and tennis, and never use the pool. And I don't love the "gang" so much...not too many "jerks" or anything, but just not the best fit with my personality. And finally, I just want something nicer and am willing to pay for it.

 

Hopefully that helps with the responses. Thanks again!

[ebrasmus21]

Lots of great responses so far. Thanks and keep 'em coming!!!

 

To answer a few questions:

 

- current club does have pool, tennis, etc. Wife enjoys her swim / racquet club more because of her friends, and the pools etc are far better than my country club's. So I'm effectively "paying twice" for that benefit. Add to it that we almost never use the pools because we also live elsewhere in the summer (with pools and a big body of water, etc.)

- I know a couple of folks at Club A but not that well...membership and "culture" is a bit of an unknown for me, although in my preview round the atmosphere was pretty awesome. I know a few guys at Club B and like them. Don't really know anyone at Club C.

- I would quit my current country club but not the swim / racquet club (for my wife's benefit). BUT, she isn't particularly happy about the idea of me spending $$$ for something she gets little benefit from. I understand, but also think she needs to be reminded every so often that she doesn't work, plays tennis 4x / week, has two houses, has her own club, etc etc (know what I mean?). She's great and worth it...but just sayin'...

- Drive time is an issue

- A lot of my rounds currently are of the get around quickly on a late afternoon variety, which makes clubs A and C tough (for a variety of reasons, club B won't really have that same issue)

- As for my current club, it is fine for what it is. It just lacks some of those nice touches. And we barely use the dining and tennis, and never use the pool. And I don't love the "gang" so much...not too many "jerks" or anything, but just not the best fit with my personality. And finally, I just want something nicer and am willing to pay for it.

 

Hopefully that helps with the responses. Thanks again!

 

Club A it is then. Do it for yourself and do it for the rest of us that can't get into a Club A ;)

[A.G. Pennypacker]

I haven't read all the responses... but my feedback anyhow:

 

TL;DR - 7 min proximity is a huge drawing factor for me. More important than anything else.

 

I am currently a member of a private club, and same as you am kind of looking around. The thing that weighs the most on my decision is my current club is about a 7 min drive from my house, and I know for a fact that I wouldn't use my membership as much (for practise or golf) if I wasn't so close. I'd probably spend about 50% less time there if I had to drive 1/2hr to get there. As such, I'm only looking at clubs within that radius (thankfully there's a couple more, one other fully private and a semi-private).

[hack2489]

Mate, let me get this correct ... your missus will keep going to "her" tennis club and pool, right? So, amenities at the golf club for her and the kids is irrelevant in your decision making. Right?

 

Or, is there a plan here to get her and the kids with you at the one club over time? If so, cool.. and therefore you need to consider them.

 

Otherwise, pick the club that fills your golfing needs. Close to home, better facilities, easier to get a round, feels right... Club C?

 

 

 

 

[LeftDaddy]

Another piece of context:

 

- To be clear, I am worried that Club A will be a bit "stuffy"...I think they have improved in that area, but I'm not the least bit "stuffy"...I'm about as non-pretentious as it gets (or at least, that is how I see myself :-) ). I do worry about "fitting in" at Club A. I don't worry about fitting in at Club B. I'm a bit worried that Club C has more "wannabes" than it should, and it has a relatively big membership.

- Clubs A and B will have low levels of membership and will thus never be crowded.

- I still work, and will need to work for at least the next 10 years, and I have a wife and school-aged children. But, retirement is in sight, and to some degree I am looking to "get in" on a good deal such that when I retire, I will just love the club I am in and will have long since overcome any high initiation fees, etc. Currently, I don't have a ton of time for the 4.5 hour rounds. In fact, I can count one hand the # of 4.5 hour rounds I have played in the last couple of years. I usually play as a single or double, and get done in less than 3 hours. I can leave my house and play a full 18 and be back within 3 hours of when I left. That is a big benefit. EXCEPT, my current club can get crowded at times, and it hosts a lot of random stuff which ends up making the club or range or both unavailable a lot more than I would like.

[sheldonjhacker]

B

[hack2489]

I'll just add too, regarding the travel time aspect, I find as a busy professional the travel time is good for returning phone calls and unwinding from the stress of the working day ... I slip away from work around mid - late afternoon, return a few calls on the drive and then wander around for a 'practice' round a couple of times a week...

 

Or.

 

Use the practice facilities to work on my swing, short game, whatever...

 

And, then head home to see the family, using the drive (about 20mins to home for me) to reflect on my game, practise or call up a mate and say g'day (or return a late work call if I know I'll catch someone on their commute home).

 

So, not all travel time is "bad" ... Just might need to rethink how you use it!

[LeftDaddy]

Mate, let me get this correct ... your missus will keep going to "her" tennis club and pool, right? So, amenities at the golf club for her and the kids is irrelevant in your decision making. Right?

 

Or, is there a plan here to get her and the kids with you at the one club over time? If so, cool.. and therefore you need to consider them.

 

Otherwise, pick the club that fills your golfing needs. Close to home, better facilities, easier to get a round, feels right... Club C?

 

:-) Not exactly. She's keeping her club. Period. End of story.

 

She is happy with my current club. Not expensive. She uses the tennis facilities occasionally. I get home pretty quickly after golf. We dine there occasionally, although she never wants to dine there because the food is "meh". And the social stuff is "meh". If I were to join another club, she wants to be able to use it too (for tennis, social, dining). So it is relevant, to some extent.

 

And I love my wife dearly. She's a great wife. We all have our things..our quirks, etc. But seeing things from another's point of view isn't always her strong suit. Let's just say that I made a very similar argument..."hey, since you already have what you need with swim/raquet club, I should just pick the golf club that is best for me. You guys don't play golf anyway." Her response was essentially "Why would I be OK with us spending all that money on something that I get no benefit from?" She is softening some, but bottom line is that it needs to appeal to her somewhat as well. I took her to Club B for lunch. She enjoyed it, but basically said "I'll never get to use it for anything other than the occasional meal, so I fail to see how this is good for us". Club A would frankly be a bit unwelcoming to her just because of how they are set up, and so she would get even less benefit from it.

 

She liked Club C until she found out how much it cost. "You want to pay what for a new membership? What is wrong with what we have?"

[ChronicSlicer]

 

- As for my current club, it is fine for what it is. It just lacks some of those nice touches. And we barely use the dining and tennis, and never use the pool. And I don't love the "gang" so much...not too many "jerks" or anything, but just not the best fit with my personality. And finally, I just want something nicer and am willing to pay for it.

 

Hopefully that helps with the responses. Thanks again!

 

It sounds like you just want to golf...almost sounds like you are throwing money out the window. Why join a club if you don`t take advantage of the place, just go play public courses, maybe you`ll meet some less stuffy people there.

[ebrasmus21]

- As for my current club, it is fine for what it is. It just lacks some of those nice touches. And we barely use the dining and tennis, and never use the pool. And I don't love the "gang" so much...not too many "jerks" or anything, but just not the best fit with my personality. And finally, I just want something nicer and am willing to pay for it.

 

Hopefully that helps with the responses. Thanks again!

 

It sounds like you just want to golf...almost sounds like you are throwing money out the window. Why join a club if you don`t take advantage of the place, just go play public courses, maybe you`ll meet some less stuffy people there.

 

Who wants to deal with the peasants on a public course?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*edit* that's a joke. Be merciful, mods.

[Fairwindsgolfer]

The requirement of a caddy would be a 100% deal-breaker for me. Go with a course that's near you and that will offer the quality that you seek

[ChronicSlicer]

- As for my current club, it is fine for what it is. It just lacks some of those nice touches. And we barely use the dining and tennis, and never use the pool. And I don't love the "gang" so much...not too many "jerks" or anything, but just not the best fit with my personality. And finally, I just want something nicer and am willing to pay for it.

 

Hopefully that helps with the responses. Thanks again!

 

It sounds like you just want to golf...almost sounds like you are throwing money out the window. Why join a club if you don`t take advantage of the place, just go play public courses, maybe you`ll meet some less stuffy people there.

 

Who wants to deal with the peasants on a public course?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*edit* that's a joke. Be merciful, mods.

 

Actually, you might be joking, but in reality that`s what Country Clubs are for. Places for wealthy people to mingle with other wealthy people.

[LeftDaddy]

My current club isn't stuffy, just has a few too many wannabes. And a much older crowd (although I usually enjoy the older guys because they are done with the driving length measurement contests, etc.). Just doesn't have too many guys that fit my personality that well. A small handful.

[hack2489]

"Why would I be OK with us spending all that money on something that I get no benefit from?"

 

Do you use the racquet 'club' she has to keep?

 

Pot. Kettle?

[third-times-a-charm]

The requirement of a caddy would be a 100% deal-breaker for me. Go with a course that's near you and that will offer the quality that you seek

 

Same.

 

I could never play with a caddy. I dont want anyone telling me where to hit my shots. Sounds annoying!

[hack2489]

My current club isn't stuffy, just has a few too many wannabes. And a much older crowd (although I usually enjoy the older guys because they are done with the driving length measurement contests, etc.). Just doesn't have too many guys that fit my personality that well. A small handful.

 

Mate, I 'get' that the "stuffy" and "wannabe" vibe needs to be avoided, but it sounds like you need to expand the group of people you know ...

 

at either your current club, or a new club.

 

At a new club, you'll need to mingle with new people, put your name down for an early tee and get around quick, or talk to the club pro and get introduced to the like minded golfers (quick round, family commitments, similar socioeconomic demographic)...

 

Or

 

Do the same at your current club?

 

Either way, you'll need to take action and build a new network / group.

 

Would doing that assist staying at your current club?

 

 

[hack2489]

The requirement of a caddy would be a 100% deal-breaker for me. Go with a course that's near you and that will offer the quality that you seek

 

Same.

 

I could never play with a caddy. I dont want anyone telling me where to hit my shots. Sounds annoying!

 

They can tell me, guide me, even pull out the best club for me ... But my ability to execute it is still a factor.

 

Why do I need to pay someone to watch me f.up time and time again?

 

So, yep, no caddie for me!