Young Aussie pro and an old driver - shocking

[mocokid]

 

Really has some time of it, and then a do over hitting old driver (NOS Joe Powell), and old 80-90's balls. See how many follow throughs with one hand at finish. "I'd have to practice more with the driver if I used one of these.....

The #'s in the youtube are in meters.

His carry with modern driver and mod balls = 289 yds

Carry with persimmon and old balls = 246 yds

 

The older guys comments at the end about what's happened to the game are spot on.

[Wilsonian]

 

Really has some time of it, and then a do over hitting old driver (NOS Joe Powell), and old 80-90's balls. See how many follow throughs with one hand at finish. "I'd have to practice more with the driver if I used one of these.....

The #'s in the youtube are in meters.

His carry with modern driver and mod balls = 289 yds

Carry with persimmon and old balls = 246 yds

 

The older guys comments at the end about what's happened to the game are spot on.

I thought the kid's comment about getting away with murder with the new drivers was interesting. Sounded like he spent more time with his irons and just let his driver be whatever it would be that day. Unless I heard him wrong.

 

Still like to see a whole tournament with the old school clubs - for charity.

[hack2489]

Over half the distance drop off is from the ball ... New driver old ball had a bigger impact than old driver on new ball.

[SteveNZ]

Mike Clayton is the older pro. Talks a lot of sense - read as much of his stuff as you can.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

The line from the younger pro about practising driver much more if he were in the persimmon age was interesting. I find when I play persimmon, if I can hit it well off the tee, I can score well. Conversely, if I'm having a bad day with the driver, my score shoots up. With the modern driver, a bad day with the driver won't have as much effect on my score provided I keep it on the course.

[anth]

Lol at “old pro” and “young pro”.

 

Mike Clayton one of the great voices in golf and golf architecture. Lucas Herbert a young up and comer, secured his Euro Tour card for next year through solid play in Europe this year. 12 months ago ranked outside top 1000.

 

Now inside Top 100 and sitting in 6th place for Presidents Cup selection.

 

It’s a big wide world out there

[dave willie]

I've been golfing for more than 40 years, and I was a single digit handicap with the wooden drivers and wound balata balls (still am single digit). I think that video overstates the distance gained by the new equipment. However, I agree that the testing that they did appeared to indicate that the ball is the difference. The problem is that they are using OLD balls, not just old balata design, but balls manufactured decades ago. Those balata balls did not have a long shelf life like the current balls, and they were affected by temperature changes. If you left a sleeve of balls in the garage through the winter, they would be lifeless come springtime. I'm not sure how the balls in the test have been stored over the years, but even if stored like fine wine, I'll bet they are still worn out even if never hit before. Natural rubber dries out and loses its elasticity over time, so an old balata ball is nowhere near as good as when it was new.

 

With all that above, I still believe that the new stuff is way better, but not quite as drastically as their testing indicates. Bigger and stronger players probably account for more of the distance gains than the equipment.

[hack2489]

I've been golfing for more than 40 years, and I was a single digit handicap with the wooden drivers and wound balata balls (still am single digit). I think that video overstates the distance gained by the new equipment. However, I agree that the testing that they did appeared to indicate that the ball is the difference. The problem is that they are using OLD balls, not just old balata design, but balls manufactured decades ago. Those balata balls did not have a long shelf life like the current balls, and they were affected by temperature changes. If you left a sleeve of balls in the garage through the winter, they would be lifeless come springtime. I'm not sure how the balls in the test have been stored over the years, but even if stored like fine wine, I'll bet they are still worn out even if never hit before. Natural rubber dries out and loses its elasticity over time, so an old balata ball is nowhere near as good as when it was new.

 

With all that above, I still believe that the new stuff is way better, but not quite as drastically as their testing indicates. Bigger and stronger players probably account for more of the distance gains than the equipment.

 

Ah... A perspective us younger players would not know. Interesting.

 

Makes sense then, that "if" they could redo the test with a "new" balata ball the drop off in distance wouldn't be anywhere near as great.

 

So, argument over? No need to tweak the rules for equipment or balls!

[deejaid]

That was a fun video but it would be cool to see the difference between the new and old tech by someone that plays both regularly or at least wasn’t hitting a persimmon for what looks like the first time.

 

Personally, I’ve found roughly the same distance loss as the video, about 20 yards shorter with my persimmon driver vs my modern driver using modern balls. I’ve been trying a few different balls to see what performs best with persimmon and while I thought lower compression balls would be much better for persimmon, I’ve hit my longest drives with the Vice Pro Plus which is a high compression ball. It performed much better than Chrome Soft.

 

The upside has been much more fairways hit with the persimmon for me.

[SteveNZ]

Lol at "old pro" and "young pro".

 

Mike Clayton one of the great voices in golf and golf architecture. Lucas Herbert a young up and comer, secured his Euro Tour card for next year through solid play in Europe this year. 12 months ago ranked outside top 1000.

 

Now inside Top 100 and sitting in 6th place for Presidents Cup selection.

 

It's a big wide world out there

 

Love Clayts - used to watch him as a kid when he came and played in New Zealand. And as you say, has become one of the most important voices in the game.

[NRJyzr]

I've been golfing for more than 40 years, and I was a single digit handicap with the wooden drivers and wound balata balls (still am single digit). I think that video overstates the distance gained by the new equipment. However, I agree that the testing that they did appeared to indicate that the ball is the difference. The problem is that they are using OLD balls, not just old balata design, but balls manufactured decades ago. Those balata balls did not have a long shelf life like the current balls, and they were affected by temperature changes. If you left a sleeve of balls in the garage through the winter, they would be lifeless come springtime. I'm not sure how the balls in the test have been stored over the years, but even if stored like fine wine, I'll bet they are still worn out even if never hit before. Natural rubber dries out and loses its elasticity over time, so an old balata ball is nowhere near as good as when it was new.

 

With all that above, I still believe that the new stuff is way better, but not quite as drastically as their testing indicates. Bigger and stronger players probably account for more of the distance gains than the equipment.

 

Ah... A perspective us younger players would not know. Interesting.

 

Makes sense then, that "if" they could redo the test with a "new" balata ball the drop off in distance wouldn't be anywhere near as great.

 

So, argument over? No need to tweak the rules for equipment or balls!

 

 

In the early days of the Tour Accuracy and Pro V1, there were launch monitor ball tests performed on a wide range of balls, including various wound balls. And, the distance differences were considerably less than what is usually posted, around 3-5 yds.

 

Then, there's a comparison of the driving distance stat between 1999 and 2002, which showed an increase of less than 6 yds for those who played during both seasons. Though there's no way to verify who switched and who didn't (a few lingered with the wound ball).

 

So yeah, there's a bit of difference, but it's not what I'd call profound.

[mocokid]

I've been golfing for more than 40 years, and I was a single digit handicap with the wooden drivers and wound balata balls (still am single digit). I think that video overstates the distance gained by the new equipment. However, I agree that the testing that they did appeared to indicate that the ball is the difference. The problem is that they are using OLD balls, not just old balata design, but balls manufactured decades ago. Those balata balls did not have a long shelf life like the current balls, and they were affected by temperature changes. If you left a sleeve of balls in the garage through the winter, they would be lifeless come springtime. I'm not sure how the balls in the test have been stored over the years, but even if stored like fine wine, I'll bet they are still worn out even if never hit before. Natural rubber dries out and loses its elasticity over time, so an old balata ball is nowhere near as good as when it was new.

 

With all that above, I still believe that the new stuff is way better, but not quite as drastically as their testing indicates. Bigger and stronger players probably account for more of the distance gains than the equipment.

 

There's a 20 meter (22 yards) difference between old driver (it's actually never been hit) /new ball and New driver / new ball. That's significant. Can't attribute that to bigger and stronger, its pure equipment diff.

[tstephen]

I'm in my late 50's and the difference between modern clubs and persimmon is consistency. When I was young I hit freakish long Mike Austin(for me) tee shots once in awhile with persimmon 30-40 years ago. Today, I can take my 10 best titanium drives on a warm summer day and the carry will be 250-255. My 10 best persimmon drives carry 230-240. But guess what? That 230 carry is the one that rolled out the furthest and my average roll with persimmon is 5-10 yards greater than titanium. 10 best drives out of 15 to 20 swinging my best and 25 swinging well.

[NRJyzr]

I've been golfing for more than 40 years, and I was a single digit handicap with the wooden drivers and wound balata balls (still am single digit). I think that video overstates the distance gained by the new equipment. However, I agree that the testing that they did appeared to indicate that the ball is the difference. The problem is that they are using OLD balls, not just old balata design, but balls manufactured decades ago. Those balata balls did not have a long shelf life like the current balls, and they were affected by temperature changes. If you left a sleeve of balls in the garage through the winter, they would be lifeless come springtime. I'm not sure how the balls in the test have been stored over the years, but even if stored like fine wine, I'll bet they are still worn out even if never hit before. Natural rubber dries out and loses its elasticity over time, so an old balata ball is nowhere near as good as when it was new.

 

With all that above, I still believe that the new stuff is way better, but not quite as drastically as their testing indicates. Bigger and stronger players probably account for more of the distance gains than the equipment.

 

There's a 20 meter (22 yards) difference between old driver (it's actually never been hit) /new ball and New driver / new ball. That's significant. Can't attribute that to bigger and stronger, its pure equipment diff.

 

 

And then there's Dustin Johnson hitting Jack's old driver, carrying it 290, 318 total distance. His 2018 avg driving distance was 314.

 

He said he could have hit the persimmon harder but didn't want to break it.

[smashdn]

That was a fun video but it would be cool to see the difference between the new and old tech by someone that plays both regularly or at least wasn’t hitting a persimmon for what looks like the first time.

 

Personally, I’ve found roughly the same distance loss as the video, about 20 yards shorter with my persimmon driver vs my modern driver using modern balls. I’ve been trying a few different balls to see what performs best with persimmon and while I thought lower compression balls would be much better for persimmon, I’ve hit my longest drives with the Vice Pro Plus which is a high compression ball. It performed much better than Chrome Soft.

 

The upside has been much more fairways hit with the persimmon for me.

 

Similar for me. I am 33. First clubs were Callaway Big Bertha's and some TM midsize foam filled irons.

 

I play a modern set and an older set of Hogan Apex persimmon 1,3 and 4 and Apex plus irons. I use the chrome soft ball. I tried the even lower compression Wilson Duo and did not like it.

 

What I see difference wise between the modern clubs and the persimmon is what the Aussie pro found, you don't hit the persimmon "on the screws" and you are going to hit a weak slice or weak hook or catch it thin and you get the fan favorite worm-burner. The sweet spot is about the size of a nickel on the Hogan driver. The sweet spot on my Titleist driver is about the size of a half dollar. Performance wise they are about the same when struck well believe it or not. The biggest difference is ball flight. Persimmon driver is a low screamer with lots of roll out. Modern driver is high arcing flight with lots of carry.

 

You can go up and over stuff with the modern driver. Hit high draws and fades. I can't work that persimmon driver. I am just not a good enough ball striker to not keep my full attention on just making solid contact. And yes I have to throttle down to keep it between the trees with it so I lose distance. But on the range I can get both drivers out there about evenly.

 

I don't tee it low either. I have a terrible downward attack angle with any club. If I want to get the ball airborne with the persimmon I have to tee it up higher than what is recommended.

[elwhippy]

I need to show this to some of my older playing partners who are adamant they could hit a 43 inch steel shafted wooden driver further than a modern club. The same crowd who say an old Hogan 1 iron was playable.

[ThomasJ2352]

That is a great video...has many good points...one point I don't think is made frequently is how current driver tech enables/rewards the much more athletic swing. They swing with near-wild-abandon because they can....maybe it is mentioned a lot and I haven't picked it up...

[ThomasJ2352]

<p>That is a great video...

[dave willie]

A chunk of the difference between the persimmon driver and the new driver has to do with club head speed. It's easier to put up higher club head speeds with the new drivers due to added length (45" vs. 43", approx.), and also due to lighter weight shafts. A modern driver could be less than 60 grams while the old steel driver shaft could top 130 grams.

[Johnnypenso]

I've been golfing for more than 40 years, and I was a single digit handicap with the wooden drivers and wound balata balls (still am single digit). I think that video overstates the distance gained by the new equipment. However, I agree that the testing that they did appeared to indicate that the ball is the difference. The problem is that they are using OLD balls, not just old balata design, but balls manufactured decades ago. Those balata balls did not have a long shelf life like the current balls, and they were affected by temperature changes. If you left a sleeve of balls in the garage through the winter, they would be lifeless come springtime. I'm not sure how the balls in the test have been stored over the years, but even if stored like fine wine, I'll bet they are still worn out even if never hit before. Natural rubber dries out and loses its elasticity over time, so an old balata ball is nowhere near as good as when it was new.

 

With all that above, I still believe that the new stuff is way better, but not quite as drastically as their testing indicates. Bigger and stronger players probably account for more of the distance gains than the equipment.

The difference in ball speed between old and new balls with the old driver was very small, less than 5mph. With the new driver the difference was less than 3mph The difference in spin with the old driver was huge, +1200 rpm. So that takes away your lifeless argument as we'd expect the balls to naturally have less speed off the clubface. The big difference was in spin. That cost him 15m of carry and 12m of rollout. To me that test plays out exactly as you would expect. Old balls didn't come off the face as fast but the biggest difference is they just spun too much compared to modern balls.

[freddiec]

Very interesting and entertaining video. Shows how difficult persimmon was and how disciplined you had to be. The Powell driver looked really sweet. I have found that tour balata balls when stored well over these 25 years can still have a good amount of life left. More than you would think in some cases. Thanks for sharing the video