Hot Melt Disaster

[Matt J]

Okay, maybe that's an overstatement, but here are the details... (TL:DR Added +/- 7 grams of hot melt and ball flight is way too high, Hotmelt.com do not buy from them)

 

I like to play a shorter than standard driver shaft. Have found that I also like a heavy driver head. After some trial and error my ideal specs seem to be 202 or 203 gram head, 44" driver, 65 gram X stiff shaft, heavy-ish full cord grip, swing weight around D4, 105ish mph club head speed.

 

So, I started messing around with an Epic Sub Zero putting the hot melt through the weight screw holes. First, the hot melt gun broke. It was a cheap-o Surebonder Pro. Obviously, I don't do this for a living, bought it off of Hotmelt.com to experiment. It came with a cartridge and I bought an extra and the total was 100 bucks and change with shipping. Used the first cartridge around the same time last year (fall seems to be tinkering season for me) on a few heads and then started the second cartridge last week. First the feed belt ratchet piece broke, so I called Hotmelt.com thinking it should last two cartridges worth. Guy who answered the phone seemed annoyed, didn't want to back his product, finally offered to call the manufacturer and see if they even offered the piece for me to buy, and then never called me back. There was construction noise in the background, maybe this is a "hobby business" anyways bad customer service, he would have been better off letting it go to voicemail.

 

So, I rigged a quick fix and epoxied the two pieces together sandwiched in some tape, let it set and put it back together. It worked for about two pumps then the gun broke. Used the plunger to manually push the melt into the head until the plunger broke, then used a pair of pliers to push the bottom of the cartridge. Point being less than ideal way of getting the melt where you want it.

 

Now the ball flight is too high, seems to have too much spin. Stouter shaft? I've been considering a 75 gram regular or stiff thinking that it might have a better feel for my release. Anyone have any suggestions?

 

I guess I could switch out the heavier screw for a lighter one and drop the swing weight back down. Then I'm kind of where I started.

[jrr]

Call Will Peoples at The Peoples Golf. https://thepeoplesclubs.com. Will is great to work with and he can meet your request You ship the head, he does his stuff and ships it back to you for $50 took a week. Good luck

[Rosco1216]

Adding 7 grams of melt to a head it's going to change anything from how it performed prior other than sounding better and being 3.5 SW points higher.

[Matt J]

Adding 7 grams of melt to a head it's going to change anything from how it performed prior other than sounding better and being 3.5 SW points higher.

 

I've heard others say that, but my experience is that it makes the shaft release different. Who knows? Maybe the heavier swing weight changes my swing?

 

I can't hit a low ball to save my life after the changes and the "normal" trajectory swing is too high.

[Rosco1216]

Adding 7 grams of melt to a head it's going to change anything from how it performed prior other than sounding better and being 3.5 SW points higher.

 

I've heard others say that, but my experience is that it makes the shaft release different. Who knows? Maybe the heavier swing weight changes my swing?

 

I can't hit a low ball to save my life after the changes and the "normal" trajectory swing is too high.

7g of melt obviously can’t make the shaft release different, only you can. Which is the only difference that would cause such difference. Did you have this exact set up prior, minus the melt?

 

[Jagpilotohio]

Adding 7 grams of melt to a head it's going to change anything from how it performed prior other than sounding better and being 3.5 SW points higher.

 

I’m agreeing with you but splitting hairs a bit because it matters to people without SW scales. 7 grams on a driver is about 4.4 Points. 1.6 gram per point.

 

It’s 2 grams per point on short irons. It actually varies by the length of the club and how far the head is from the scale pivot point.

[delmer]

Adding 7 grams of melt to a head it's going to change anything from how it performed prior other than sounding better and being 3.5 SW points higher.

 

+1. It'll make the shaft play a touch softer as well due to the increased swing weight but it won't do anything crazy with your numbers. If there was a huge impact on the ball flight with 7 grams it is in your head.

[Matt J]

Adding 7 grams of melt to a head it's going to change anything from how it performed prior other than sounding better and being 3.5 SW points higher.

 

I've heard others say that, but my experience is that it makes the shaft release different. Who knows? Maybe the heavier swing weight changes my swing?

 

I can't hit a low ball to save my life after the changes and the "normal" trajectory swing is too high.

7g of melt obviously can't make the shaft release different, only you can. Which is the only difference that would cause such difference. Did you have this exact set up prior, minus the melt?

 

Everything identical.

 

I've got a few shafts with Callaway adapters and tried them all. Ball much higher.

 

It's an interesting situation. A year or two ago, when I first bought a swing weight scale, I went on this "deep dive" about swing weight. Then I realized that it didn't make that much difference for me unless it was a pretty drastic difference. One thing I do remember is that there was one wedge in particular. It was an old Cobra black oxide wedge with a funny slot cut into the middle of the sole... anyways, I digress, the head weight was pretty high to start with, D4 if I remember correctly. I weighted it to see what might happen and there was some tipping point, D6 or D8 maybe, that it definitely changed the trajectory. Once again it might be a timing difference due to the way you transition that much weight !?! I don't know. That's why I came on here to get opinions. But, I think we can all agree that eventually adding weight will have to soften the flex, yes? If you think of the extremes of having a really heavy head there's no way it isn't going to flex the shaft more.

[delmer]

Adding 7 grams of melt to a head it's going to change anything from how it performed prior other than sounding better and being 3.5 SW points higher.

 

I've heard others say that, but my experience is that it makes the shaft release different. Who knows? Maybe the heavier swing weight changes my swing?

 

I can't hit a low ball to save my life after the changes and the "normal" trajectory swing is too high.

7g of melt obviously can't make the shaft release different, only you can. Which is the only difference that would cause such difference. Did you have this exact set up prior, minus the melt?

 

Everything identical.

 

I've got a few shafts with Callaway adapters and tried them all. Ball much higher.

 

It's an interesting situation. A year or two ago, when I first bought a swing weight scale, I went on this "deep dive" about swing weight. Then I realized that it didn't make that much difference for me unless it was a pretty drastic difference. One thing I do remember is that there was one wedge in particular. It was an old Cobra black oxide wedge with a funny slot cut into the middle of the sole... anyways, I digress, the head weight was pretty high to start with, D4 if I remember correctly. I weighted it to see what might happen and there was some tipping point, D6 or D8 maybe, that it definitely changed the trajectory. Once again it might be a timing difference due to the way you transition that much weight !?! I don't know. That's why I came on here to get opinions. But, I think we can all agree that eventually adding weight will have to soften the flex, yes? If you think of the extremes of having a really heavy head there's no way it isn't going to flex the shaft more.

 

To think about it roughly 7 grams in a driver will probably soften the shaft by a couple CPMs or about a quarter to a third of a flex.

 

The mind is a powerful thing and in the case I think it's playing tricks on you. For some people thinking too much about specs and small changes can be a very bad thing.

[Jagpilotohio]

More Weight definitely softens the flex. That’s an absolute rule of clubmaking. It’s just a matter of how much weight is needed to see a change in playing characteristics that’s open to debate.

 

A 3 wood head is significantly heavier than a driver head because it’s meant to be played much shorter. If you use identical shafts in your driver and your 3 wood you should ALWAYS tip the 3 wood at least a 1/2 inch more than the driver to maintain a similar flex.

 

The same goes for shortening a driver significantly. If you shorten a 45” driver 2 inches to 43 inches without tipping it and add 18+ Grams of weight to the head you are DEFINITELY changing the flex of the shaft and how it plays.

 

You are saying you added 7 grams and everyone is essentially saying that’s not enough to make a measurable and substantial difference in how it plays.

 

How much is needed to see a difference?? I dont really know. I’m not sure anyone does. It’s on a sliding scale. 7 grams will make some difference, but it just can’t be as radical as you are experiencing.

[delmer]

More Weight definitely softens the flex. That’s an absolute rule of clubmaking. It’s just a matter of how much weight is needed to see a change in playing characteristics that’s open to debate.

 

A 3 wood head is significantly heavier than a driver head because it’s meant to be played much shorter. If you use identical shafts in your driver and your 3 wood you should ALWAYS tip the 3 wood at least a 1/2 inch more than the driver to maintain a similar flex.

 

The same goes for shortening a driver significantly. If you shorten a 45” driver 2 inches to 43 inches without tipping it and add 18+ Grams of weight to the head you are DEFINITELY changing the flex of the shaft and how it plays.

 

You are saying you added 7 grams and everyone is essentially saying that’s not enough to make a measurable and substantial difference in how it plays.

 

How much is needed to see a difference?? I dont really know. I’m not sure anyone does. It’s on a sliding scale. 7 grams will make some difference, but it just can’t be as radical as you are experiencing.

 

Obviously all shafts will react differently to adding weight to the head but for just an average rule of thumb about 3 grams will cause 1 CPM change so 7 grams in his case will most likely be around a quarter of a flex softer.

 

Probably can't tell the difference, definitely won't cause a huge change in launch numbers.

[Ri_Redneck]

For anyone considering getting the Probonder hotmelt gun from ANYWHERE..... DON'T. It's just pure junk and will fall apart in no time. Go ahead and spend the $125 for the Advanced Hotmelt Gun and you will be FAR more satisfied. I found out the hard way also.

 

BT

[Jagpilotohio]

For anyone considering getting the Probonder hotmelt gun from ANYWHERE..... DON'T. It's just pure junk and will fall apart in no time. Go ahead and spend the $125 for the Advanced Hotmelt Gun and you will be FAR more satisfied. I found out the hard way also.

 

BT

 

I’ve used the cheapo for three years. Done at least 8 clubs. It’s delicate but the trick is to make sure the cartridge is good and hot before dispensing and also make sure to put a torch or a heat gun on the metal cartridge tip immediately before dispensing the goo. It flows MUCH easier.

 

I do agree that the base gun is junk. If you do any kind of volume at all an extra $50 bucks on the better gun makes sense.

[Valtiel]

Purely from a CG standpoint, the 7 grams could not have have changed enough to impact ball flight like that, so we can rule that out. 7 grams will also only have a small impact on shaft flex, maybe enough to raise launch and spin a touch assuming you're hitting it exactly the same as before but nothing drastic. It is most likely the additional weight either changing the way you're delivering the club, changing your strike point, or the latter as a result of the former. The best thing you can do is get some impact tape or foot spray on the face and figure out where your strike point is to determine whether you're ballooning because of too much spin caused by a low strike or launching higher due to a high strike. If your strikes are in the middle and you're still having problems then its likely how you and your swing are reacting to the increased weight.

[WanLefty]

Just a few things to add:

 

- Are you sure you only added 7g? Maybe when you were trying different things to get the broken parts to work you added more?

 

- If you did only add 7g then any change will be mental, it's not enough to cause a drastic ball flight difference

 

Wan

[Matt J]

I hit it again the last couple of days and have noticed that I transition a little differently with it heavier. I moved the sole weights around trying to effect the ball flight, too.

 

I'm going to cut one of the shafts down a little more and see if I can get more control. I'll probably tip the softer one.

 

I weighed it before and afterwards.

 

 

[FlaBoy239]

I play short drivers and usually have to add around 12 grams or so to my heads. I always tip the shafts an inch to help handle the extra weight. Not sure if it helps or not but it's just what I do and have never had complaints.

[jj9000]

Go to Home Depot and get a bottle of MEK.

 

Pour plenty of MEK into the head where the hotmelt was inserted. Leave the head alone for a few hours.

 

The MEK will eat the hotmelt, and turn it into a liquid form.

 

Pour the MEK out, and you'll see the liquid hotmelt come out with it.

 

Be VERY careful not to have anything flammable around.

 

Good luck!

[Matt J]

Thanks fellas. I'm gonna tip one of the shafts and probably even add a bit more melt.

 

Probably was in my head, but I think I feel the release a bit better and am having a little different miss, too.

[radiman]

One benefit to the SZ is the fact that you can easily find screws of varying weights to fine tune your preferred swing weight. If you want to bring the weight back down as an experiment, go buy a cheap screw that is lighter than the heavy screw. Then, if you like the weight, you can try to remove the hot melt. That way, you know before going through the trouble of trying to get it out. If you're anything like me, it all sounds so simple until you start the process.

[Matt J]

I checked the screws out but was turned off by the added expense. It would be a very good way to fit though, keeping a bunch in the fitting cart.

 

I might buy a couple combos of the screws so I can run different length shafts at the same swing weight. I feel like I need a short driver for when I'm not really playing much, then a longer length for the summer. Seems ridiculous though.

 

 

 

[delmer]

I checked the screws out but was turned off by the added expense. It would be a very good way to fit though, keeping a bunch in the fitting cart.

 

I might buy a couple combos of the screws so I can run different length shafts at the same swing weight. I feel like I need a short driver for when I'm not really playing much, then a longer length for the summer. Seems ridiculous though.

 

I always keep a bunch of them in my bag. Order the ones off Ebay from China and they're a couple dollars a piece. I like to dial in my Rogue driver and FWs with them.