Wrist and Arm Action

[Matt J]

Anyone have any good resources for better understanding how your wrists and arms work best in the golf swing?

 

My original "innate" golf swing since childhood was real flat. I began the swing by rolling my forearms over. Lately I've been working on a more upright and on plane hinge. I feel as if I'm learning to swing all over again, though. I can't figure out where I'm bottoming the club and contact has been the worst since I was a child. Today I was playing around with staying on plane, but still controlling the face with my wrists and forearms. So rather than just make this up right dead closed hinge, begin it on plane and then let my natural "open and shut the gate" release happen. The results were much better, but it seems very timing dependent.

 

I'm probably just going to bag it and seek some professional advice, but I like to read and understand the "why" of how the swing works. Who covers this part of the swing best? TIA.

[kadey]

I watch this from time to time to remind me that to gain control one must lose control:

 

[Matt J]

I watch this from time to time to remind me that to gain control one must lose control:

 

 

That first fella has a beautiful move. I toyed around with that reverse hinge takeaway that he shows of Vardon for a little while. Resulted in a really high ball flight. Did it for awhile with three wood, just to take advantage of the height.

[Golfbeat]

I think that this video is still one of the best. I found out also that my war chant was not good because I gripped my left (lead) hand too much in the palm as opposed to in the fingers. This stopped me from hinging up the club correctly.

 

[Matt J]

Starting perusing YouTube last night, like any common hack.

 

I liked one video which differentiated the hinge from forearm rotation which is probably pretty basic for all the aspiring pros but new to me.

 

Looks like I'll be relegated to half swings or awhile. Thanks for the suggestions; I'll check out the ideas posted.

 

Edited to add: I like the David Orr video. The war chant and walrus business gets me thinking about my trail (strong) hand and arm, and less on the hinge and my lead hand.

[Matt J]

Research Gerry Hogan and his advice on hands/arms. The best by far.

 

I found a used copy of his book on Amazon. I'll give it a look see in a week or so when it arrives. Thanks.

[Matt J]

So, watching some of these videos and reading some blogs was pretty valuable. My theory is that I was incorporating too much rotation in the take away. That would put me in a position of being under plane. I have a short back swing, so I didn't feel real stuck or flippy, just didn't feel like I had room to deliver the club from the inside.

 

I took too much of my medicine and corrected with taking the club back over the line. Now, I'm trying to start the club back on plane if not a bit outside feeling for me and then introduce the rotation at the end of the back swing. My contact has improved dramatically since making that change.

 

In the David Orr video he is adamant that you should then coordinate the release of your hips and torso with impact. That part seems to be a bit of a stumbling block for me. When I get it just right the shots feel and look great. Although I think I lose a bit of club head speed. The issue is that if I get out in front of it a little I hit a pull draw and that's dead, dead, dead. Some of it's just going to take more practice. But, I've always been a hips, shoulders, hands, club head guy. That seems more forgiving as long as it doesn't get drastically out of whack.

 

Is this at the heart of this whole sequencing issue? Thanks in advance.

[glk]

Tyler Ferrell has a 50 minutes presentation on arm movements of elite golfers that he gave to the World Golf Fitness Summit this past October - lots of detail including his favorite drills - think single arm and open hand.

He also give exercises to train elbow versus shoulder disassociation which he feels is more important that the torso/hips disassociation. Unfortunately he has not put this up on his youtube site like he has in the past for other presentations. But a free 7 day trial gets you access.

[dj*]

Wrists will stop arms, arms will stop wrists, basically.

[Matt J]

Tyler Ferrell has a 50 minutes presentation on arm movements of elite golfers that he gave to the World Golf Fitness Summit this past October - lots of detail including his favorite drills - think single arm and open hand.

He also give exercises to train elbow versus shoulder disassociation which he feels is more important that the torso/hips disassociation. Unfortunately he has not put this up on his youtube site like he has in the past for other presentations. But a free 7 day trial gets you access.

 

The elbow and shoulder disassociation is a good way to describe what I was working on the last couple of sessions. In that David Orr youtube vid clearly the chopping motion is all elbow and the "walrus" as he calls it is all shoulder. Also, really setting the club at the top. My move since childhood involved a lot of float loading. I don't mind a little, and may try and really define how much or too little is going to work for me, but the more I float load the more wrist action I give and that was always a more bowed to cupped hinging door action for me naturally, probably originally as a junior to generate more power. Now I'm trying to have the hinge operate in the same plane as the back of my hand. It doesn't involve nearly as much movement, but I do think it still generates power.

 

When I originally posted the thread title as "wrists" that is what I'm referring to... whether or not that bowed lead wrist at the top and cupped wrist at the finish is a death move for any consistency. Sure, you can look at DJ who clearly bows, but I think he holds on to the bow through impact. In essence he's playing a hold off cut with the face closed due to the bowed wrist. I think I can recall folks saying you can do the same with cupped as long as you keep it cupped through the release although that feels super weak to me.

[Matt J]

Wrists will stop arms, arms will stop wrists, basically.

 

Sorry, but that makes zero sense to me. None of it stops until way past the ball. I'm talking about trying to re-groove the way I control the face.

 

Just introducing the rotation (think elbows squeezed together towards the end of the backswing) really improved my ball striking yesterday. I think if I can start finding the plane I like for each club and having the discipline to settle all of it at the top then I can start generating more speed again. I've always hit driver about how far you would think for the speed about 105ish club head, but then down the bag my distances are more on par with a guy that swings driver 95 to 100 mph. So, 250 or 260 carry with driver when pured, and hit a pitching wedge 115. Yesterday it was cold but I left everything about a club short even pured right at the pin, and I was mostly overclubbed a club or a half a club.

[OakLawnGolfPro]

Check out Malaska. He’s my mentor and taught me everything I could know about hands and arms.

[Gamble Gamble]

Under the adult supervision of our course’s pro, we worked on this pretty much any time I went a little off the rails. Keep in mind everything relies on proper matchups. My setup is slightly strong grip with an interlock. My swing feels right side dominant.

 

 

My “checkpoints” - I don’t think of these when I play on the course and I usually only focus on one (maybe two) at a time during practice/lessons

 

1. Start swing by feeling the arms moving to where the hands are going to the right thigh.

2. Set wrists while doing this -setting the wrists means trail hand wrist bends back towards outer trail forearm - this will appear to close the face but the face will match the angle of your spine (between p1 and p2-club parallel to ground on backswing)

3. Maintain spine angle by rotating around your spine with little to no vertical head movement but not restricting the turn

4. Feel like the swing stops when the club is short of parallel at the top (video helps measure this) - if you have arm over run you will likely jack up your wrist angles to get back to the ball

5. Fire trail elbow toward where the belly button will be - for me it feels like I’m swinging soooo far left

 

 

The “Why’s”:

 

1. Move arms towards thigh as a unit to promote a full turn

2. Set wrists helps close face to be in the correct place and promotes a shallower swing

3. Don’t mess up spine angle because you will compensate by jacking up wrist angles (cast)

4. Don’t take too long of a backswing because you will compensate by jacking up your wrist angles (cast or flip)

5. Fire trail elbow forward (see Monte Scheinblum’s video on this) because it promotes a shallow turn - if you pull the handle down you will jack up your wrist angles because you will be too steep and need to cast to avoid digging a trench behind the ball

 

Last season I played half as much as I usually do and dropped my handicap by 4 strokes by focusing on these check points.

 

I hope this helps.