Chamber's Bay Green Re-sod Project

[SuperPapaBear]

Has anyone heard any recent news about how the project is going? The interwebs haven't turned up anything newer than September.

[bird206]

I stopped by their clubhouse a couple weeks back and looked like the greens were installed from the view overlooking the course. Also, person at clubhouse says they have been installed as well and just going through the process of growing in. You would have to double check that if you want to be 100% sure though.

[m@tador206]

I stopped by their clubhouse a couple weeks back and looked like the greens were installed from the view overlooking the course. Also, person at clubhouse says they have been installed as well and just going through the process of growing in. You would have to double check that if you want to be 100% sure though.

 

I was in the area and drove by this morning. From what I could see all of the greens have been installed. Definitely a different look.

[ryu123]

Phoned the course today. They’re hoping to re-open sometime in March, but it depends on the progress of the greens.

[teejaywhy]

What turf strain are they using? Poa?

 

[mallrat]

What turf strain are they using? Poa?

 

Yes to Poa. One nice thing about Poa is it can get good pretty quick.

[bradski]

If they bought good poa turf they could be really good fast. Snoqualmie ridge did some greens years ago with good results.

[Matt J]

Such an amazing golf course, one of my favorites!

 

 

Hope they're successful.

[Randy_Bobandy]

Hopefully they don't start charging more once they have the greens switched over... I played last year in September for $140 including tax during twilight time and easily finished. I have no regrets paying that much money even with the state of the greens at the time.

[okie21]

I was looking at playing there end of March, beginning of April. What do you guys think the greens might look like then? Also, I've never been up there that time of year, what would playing conditions be like?

[Matt J]

Just depends on the day. I played it after a lot of rain and actually think it may have been more enjoyable as the slopes are severe. It drains amazingly well.

[mallrat]

I was looking at playing there end of March, beginning of April. What do you guys think the greens might look like then? Also, I've never been up there that time of year, what would playing conditions be like?

 

Would all depend on the grow in progress and where they are at in mowing. Greens take a little while to get down to the HOC (height of cut) a super desires. They should go down about .010” every other week to keep the grass and turf healthy. I’m not sure about the rolling process on new greens also.

[okie21]

Just depends on the day. I played it after a lot of rain and actually think it may have been more enjoyable as the slopes are severe. It drains amazingly well.

I was looking at playing there end of March, beginning of April. What do you guys think the greens might look like then? Also, I've never been up there that time of year, what would playing conditions be like?

 

Would all depend on the grow in progress and where they are at in mowing. Greens take a little while to get down to the HOC (height of cut) a super desires. They should go down about .010" every other week to keep the grass and turf healthy. I'm not sure about the rolling process on new greens also.

 

Alright, thanks guys. I'm leaning towards playing it, will recheck conditions as it draws near.

[farmer]

Why did they use poa annua? Why not a bentgrass variety?

[Matt J]

Why did they use poa annua? Why not a bentgrass variety?

 

Poa seeds after just a few hours of sunshine and the seed pods blow around in the breeze for miles. It's impossible to keep out of other grass varieties. With a re-sod project the course can buy older Poa and graft it into the greens complexes and then they don't have to wait the 15 or 20 years for it to "get good." Poa will eventually quit popping the seed pods although the time frame of 10 to 25 years varies based on climate and agronomy. Supers will try and speed up the process by using growth inhibitor that tends to encourage the Poa to hybridize faster, but because the hybrid strains proliferate laterally through "runners" you can't grow the "good for putting" Poa from seed - that's the whole point you want it not to seed. Make sense?

 

I'm not a Turf Grass specialist, but I did do some research for a story on Poa Annua - so that's the best of my understanding!

 

Edited to add: that it's not endemic and is considered an invasive species but it thrives in the Pacific Northwest and tolerates super short mowing, so it makes a lot of sense if you can afford to get the sod to use it.

[bird206]

Why did they use poa annua? Why not a bentgrass variety?

Here is one of the reasons why https://www.chambersbaygolf.com/changing-the-face/

[farmer]

Interesting information. We started with bent, but over the 50 years since seeding, we have been invaded by poa. Supt meetings used to have considerable time spent on how to combat poa. It seems odd that they would start with an invasive species.

[mallrat]

Great posts above.

 

As 2 of my previous Supers have told me, “anyone who says they can keep Poa off of a course in the PNW is either lying to get a job or is willing to spray chemicals they are not allowed to spray.”

 

Funny story about this is the 1st time they reseeded them with Fescue the super begged them to use Poa and told them he could get them outstanding for the Open. They told him no, he was fired after the Open.

 

EDIT... Poa seeds are so invasive and can last so long that there are some high end Clubs that make you spray off your shoes before entering the property.

[Matt J]

Interesting information. We started with bent, but over the 50 years since seeding, we have been invaded by poa. Supt meetings used to have considerable time spent on how to combat poa. It seems odd that they would start with an invasive species.

 

Being categorized as an "invasive species" just means that it's not a native plant in that region. Some of the best greens in the world are Poa. It's difficult to figure out why some courses fight it and others are buying it to the tune of $250k - but read my post above. When it's in the early stages it blooms and gets bumpy in the afternoon, those are the strains that supers will try and eradicate with herbicide or manually by digging the sprouts up. So, if your club has bermuda or bentgrass greens you don't want poa taking root. The mature non-seeding hybrid strain is what Chambers is using and if properly maintained it can produce some incredibly smooth and consistent putting greens. The tough thing in the Northwest is that some clubs simply wait it out until it takes over and then hybridizes which can take many years.

[theboyslater]

really looking forward to the re-opening in March

[mallrat]

Poa settles in over time and will stop producing a seed head. Look at Royal Oaks or Tacoma Country Club. When it changes from perennial to annual you are golden. There are some courses where there are 2 or 3 varietals of Poa per green.

 

Another thing Matt touches on that those aren’t familiar with Poa is the way it grows makes a lot of people think it’s bad. Poa does not grow in a traditional blade it grows in more of a clump. Having a good top- dressing and verticutting program is essential with Poa.

 

Also, all the knuckleheads you hear on the broadcasts about Poa getting bumpy in the afternoon, ha. Yes it can but the tour greens, nope. They get such a small amount of clip over the course of the week.

[bradski]

Great posts above.

 

As 2 of my previous Supers have told me, "anyone who says they can keep Poa off of a course in the PNW is either lying to get a job or is willing to spray chemicals they are not allowed to spray."

 

Funny story about this is the 1st time they reseeded them with Fescue the super begged them to use Poa and told them he could get them outstanding for the Open. They told him no, he was fired after the Open.

 

EDIT... Poa seeds are so invasive and can last so long that there are some high end Clubs that make you spray off your shoes before entering the property.

 

I had heard that they were producing a herbicide that killed poa and didn't kill bent and it was being used over sea's. Is there still nothing we can do other than picking the poa out of the greens? (which is a losing battle over time)

[SheriffBooth]

Poa settles in over time and will stop producing a seed head. Look at Royal Oaks or Tacoma Country Club. When it changes from perennial to annual you are golden. There are some courses where there are 2 or 3 varietals of Poa per green.

 

Another thing Matt touches on that those aren't familiar with Poa is the way it grows makes a lot of people think it's bad. Poa does not grow in a traditional blade it grows in more of a clump. Having a good top- dressing and verticutting program is essential with Poa.

 

Also, all the knuckleheads you hear on the broadcasts about Poa getting bumpy in the afternoon, ha. Yes it can but the tour greens, nope. They get such a small amount of clip over the course of the week.

 

Tacoma CC has some of the most beautiful greens I've ever seen. If Chambers turns out 75% of Tacoma's quality it'll be a world class site.

[farmer]

We've fought poa for years and years, as it doesn't thrive in the Texas Panhandle. In the fall, our greens look like camo. I would be interested in knowing how many varieties of grass we have.

[mallrat]

Great posts above.

 

As 2 of my previous Supers have told me, "anyone who says they can keep Poa off of a course in the PNW is either lying to get a job or is willing to spray chemicals they are not allowed to spray."

 

Funny story about this is the 1st time they reseeded them with Fescue the super begged them to use Poa and told them he could get them outstanding for the Open. They told him no, he was fired after the Open.

 

EDIT... Poa seeds are so invasive and can last so long that there are some high end Clubs that make you spray off your shoes before entering the property.

 

I had heard that they were producing a herbicide that killed poa and didn't kill bent and it was being used over sea's. Is there still nothing we can do other than picking the poa out of the greens? (which is a losing battle over time)

 

From my knowledge a variation of that herbicide (I believe Poa-cure was one and Poa out was another) comes out every 2-3 years from a multitude of companies and none has passed approval. The results are generally very positive from my understanding. Only know 1 course that was on the trials list and they had great results but they weren’t on the list for the 3rd year of trials. They are other ways of controlling Poa, I know of one course that sprays a chemical at a higher rate and it keeps the Poa somewhat managed but it is still there just not taking over.

[mallrat]

We've fought poa for years and years, as it doesn't thrive in the Texas Panhandle. In the fall, our greens look like camo. I would be interested in knowing how many varieties of grass we have.

 

Probably 3 or 4 with 1 being Bent and a couple varitials of Poa.

[JohnnyCizzle]

FYI you can now start booking tee times for April!

[leejohnkieh]

Poa settles in over time and will stop producing a seed head. Look at Royal Oaks or Tacoma Country Club. When it changes from perennial to annual you are golden. There are some courses where there are 2 or 3 varietals of Poa per green.

 

Another thing Matt touches on that those aren't familiar with Poa is the way it grows makes a lot of people think it's bad. Poa does not grow in a traditional blade it grows in more of a clump. Having a good top- dressing and verticutting program is essential with Poa.

 

Also, all the knuckleheads you hear on the broadcasts about Poa getting bumpy in the afternoon, ha. Yes it can but the tour greens, nope. They get such a small amount of clip over the course of the week.

 

Tacoma CC has some of the most beautiful greens I've ever seen. If Chambers turns out 75% of Tacoma's quality it'll be a world class site.

 

I will definitely be more inclined to play Chambers if that happens. I do get the pleasure of putting on TCGC's greens already =)

[CVideto]

Anybody with connections to Chambers heard anything recently? I know they mentioned March as the opening date just curious if they're still on track/ahead of the game?

 

Based on the weather this past week I can imagine we wouldn't be playing until late Feb anyways.

[farmer]

Probably people from Seattle out there sledding down the hills.