Dechambeau SW

[MountainGoat]

Have any of you guys read what the swing weights of Bryson Chambeau's clubs are? I tried one of the JumboMax grips he uses, and it's so heavy that it changed the SW of my test club from D2 to C1!. Is he really playing such a light SW?

[jasonp87]

His irons are moi matched. Moi isnt as affected by counter balancing as SW is.

 

But yes if you SW his irons theyre like c7

[MountainGoat]

His irons are moi matched. Moi isnt as affected by counter balancing as SW is.

 

But yes if you SW his irons theyre like c7

 

Yeah, I get the MOI-matching. But, I can't get anywhere near C7 with a 124g JumboMax on a 37.5" Cobra SL. I was surprised that I can only get to C3.

[calfan36]

His irons are moi matched. Moi isnt as affected by counter balancing as SW is.

 

But yes if you SW his irons theyre like c7

 

Yeah, I get the MOI-matching. But, I can't get anywhere near C7 with a 124g JumboMax on a 37.5" Cobra SL. I was surprised that I can only get to C3.

 

Why does it matter?

[MountainGoat]

Why does it matter?

 

 

Because I have a mountain of data collected over the years that indicates that SW matters. It's not the sole determinant of club performance, but it's not irrelevant either.

[RogerinNewZealand]

A good example of just because it works for a Tour Proven Winner doesnt mean its for you.

The One Length works for some. Just like V Sole wedges..works for some.Keep hoing and game improvong.

Thats what WRX is here for. Ps im a D3+ guy!and love 48 gram grips.

[Downtown_Brown_41]

The grip is just “tricking” the sw scale. The overall mass of the club is heavier with those big grips so it’s not the same as having a normal grip and light head @ c3 se. It feels lighter but shouldn’t take but a handful of swings to get used to the new feel. SW is just a number and while important, it gets thrown out the window when going this extreme with the large grips

[ode1]

In this scenario if you go from a standard weight grip (mid 50's) to a 124g grip you'd need to add roughly 30g of headweight to get to the same SW, all else being equal. This club would not be usable but the SW would be the same. It's an extreme example but a good one to show how MOI is a more practical and effective way to match clubs vs. SW. As someone who uses OS grips I've learned this lesson. Even with a 78g grip which is basically a lamkin OS, you'd have to add roughly 10g of headweight to get the same SW as with a standard weight grip. That being said if you are using the same grip and shaft within the set, a SW scale can still be useful if you know what you are doing.

 

IMO it does not make sense to try and Target the same SW with such a drastically different grip weight. Use the same headweight and demo. See what happens.

 

Bryson is using a grip that is ~ 70g heavier than stock. Clublength is 6i length, but with a headweight that is of an 8i. His clubs are HEAVY! I know he says he's not that athletic and has to work at it, but in order to get the kind of speed he does with with those specs is pretty amazing IMO!

[MountainGoat]

Thanks, gentlemen, but as a certified clubmaker I'm all over the SW vs MOI debate. That wasn't the nature of my question. I'm simply noting that I built a 37.5" Cobra SL 7-iron with the same 133g shaft and 123g grip that Bryson uses. His club reportedly comes in at C9, whereas mine came in at C3. That suggests that either the reporting of his club spec is wrong or he has made an adjustment to his clubhead weight. If it's the latter, then it suggests that the use of the JumboMax grip requires some significant modifications to a club's fundamental balance.

[Cwebb]

Maybe he uses the swing-weight scale in a different way,....where he doesn't factor in the massive weight of his grips?

[ChaosTheory]

His irons are moi matched. Moi isnt as affected by counter balancing as SW is.

 

But yes if you SW his irons theyre like c7

 

They are MOI and SW matched. That's a beauty of SL, you don't have to choose a matching method.

[ChaosTheory]

I think I've read that his irons are B9.

 

As a person who tries various heavier grips, I disagree with the thought that it's just fooling the swingweight scale, ie it's meaningless and can be ignored. The balance of the club is greatly affected. Swingweight is a measure of balance. Clubs with heavy grips definitely swing differently for me.

[Valtiel]

I think I've read that his irons are B9.

 

As a person who tries various heavier grips, I disagree with the thought that it's just fooling the swingweight scale, ie it's meaningless and can be ignored. The balance of the club is greatly affected. Swingweight is a measure of balance. Clubs with heavy grips definitely swing differently for me.

 

The balance of the club is indeed greatly affected, but in terms of what the swingweight scale tells you it is really not useful with regards to how the scale is traditionally used/read. The traditional swingweight scale is only a measure of balance assuming there is 50g of counterweight in the form of a "standard" grip.

 

A club going from D2 to C1 due to a heavy grip is going to feel absolutely nothing like a standard gripped club that is C1 due to either length reduction and/or clubhead weight reduction. Following the same logic, and the reason for the "useless" statement, to get back to D2 from C1 you would need over 20g of additional head weight. Add that 20g+ to the additional 70g+ of grip weight and now you have a D2 swingweighted club that weighs 90g+ more than the original club in terms of static weight. This will feel absolutely nothing like it did originally for obvious reasons, but the scale would have you believe that it should. So yes, the scale does tell you *something*, but if you take it at face value and attempt to apply normal swingweight rules to compensate then you will NOT get the expected results.

[MountainGoat]

Answering my own question -- Bryson’s irons are 37.5” long with 268g heads. His shafts are 133g. His driver is said to be B9 (https://www.golfdige...b-9-swingweight). His irons are C7.5 (http://www.golfwrx.c...rototype-irons/) 73 degree lie angle. 123g JumboMax XL grips (https://golfweek.com/2016/11/15/deep-dive-bryson-dechambeau/).

[poppman2142]

Everyone measures length differently. Pings 36" is not the same as Callaway's 36". It could be his 37 1/2" inches is being measured differently than the way you are measuring it.

[Jagpilotohio]

Answering my own question -- Bryson’s irons are 37.5” long with 268g heads. His shafts are 133g. His driver is said to be B9 (https://www.golfdigest.com/story/dechambeaus-new-driver-has-b-9-swingweight). His irons are C7.5 (http://www.golfwrx.com/388610/bryson-dechambeau-unveils-cobra-one-length-prototype-irons/)

 

Correct.

 

If you built him a club using a standard grip it would SW at about D-5. That 268g head weight is about equal to a “normal” 7 iron head and its on a 6 iron length shaft. That should make it 3 points heavier than a “standard” 6 iron using a standard weight grip.

 

If you wish to mimic his clubs just add 7-8 grams in tip weights or lead tape and install the giant grips.

 

 

[Cwebb]

I think I've read that his irons are B9.

 

As a person who tries various heavier grips, I disagree with the thought that it's just fooling the swingweight scale, ie it's meaningless and can be ignored. The balance of the club is greatly affected. Swingweight is a measure of balance. Clubs with heavy grips definitely swing differently for me.

 

It means that he plays counter-weighted clubs. Doesn't mean they actually swing light

[firstbatch]

Answering my own question -- Bryson’s irons are 37.5” long with 268g heads. His shafts are 133g. His driver is said to be B9 (https://www.golfdigest.com/story/dechambeaus-new-driver-has-b-9-swingweight). His irons are C7.5 (http://www.golfwrx.com/388610/bryson-dechambeau-unveils-cobra-one-length-prototype-irons/)

 

Are there any reports of what the moi number is on his irons?

[MountainGoat]

Answering my own question -- Bryson’s irons are 37.5” long with 268g heads. His shafts are 133g. His driver is said to be B9 (https://www.golfdige...b-9-swingweight). His irons are C7.5 (http://www.golfwrx.c...rototype-irons/)

 

Are there any reports of what the moi number is on his irons?

 

None that I've seen. When I finish the 7-iron I'm working on I'll get you a number.

[TKS]

As a clubfitter builder, I play a Lob wedge with a L jumbomax. On a scale , yes it shows a difference. But, when in play the head does not feel any lighter. The hand position is changed- that is the big difference. Solved my chipping yips almost instantly

[ode1]

Answering my own question -- Bryson’s irons are 37.5” long with 268g heads. His shafts are 133g. His driver is said to be B9 (https://www.golfdigest.com/story/dechambeaus-new-driver-has-b-9-swingweight). His irons are C7.5 (http://www.golfwrx.com/388610/bryson-dechambeau-unveils-cobra-one-length-prototype-irons/) to

 

Where does it say 268g headweight....I've seen other articles indicating 280g, but also another indicating he's playing irons that are 10g lighter than previous irons he's played but.then also indicating his wedges we're 280g in the same article-

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/golfweek.com/2016/11/15/deep-dive-bryson-dechambeau/amp/

 

From 2016 so not very recent.

[MountainGoat]

Answering my own question -- Bryson's irons are 37.5" long with 268g heads. His shafts are 133g. His driver is said to be B9 (https://www.golfdige...b-9-swingweight). His irons are C7.5 (http://www.golfwrx.c...rototype-irons/) to

 

Where does it say 268g headweight....I've seen other articles indicating 280g, but also another indicating he's playing irons that are 10g lighter than previous irons he's played but.then also indicating his wedges we're 280g in the same article-

 

https://www.google.c...dechambeau/amp/

 

From 2016 so not very recent.

 

That's an important link, thanks! The quote about his irons that caught my eye is the following: “One of the main differences in these irons [Cobra] compared to what he was playing before [Edel] is these are lighter,” Schomin said. “They’re about 10 grams lighter through the set. This is actually our stock, standard-weight set. We tested a heavier set of these in Napa (Calif.), and Bryson didn’t think they felt as good.”

 

I believe the "stock" Cobra set has 268g heads. I also heard that number from an interview with Steve Bertkowski, that unfortunately I now can't find.

[rybo]

Answering my own question -- Bryson's irons are 37.5" long with 268g heads. His shafts are 133g. His driver is said to be B9 (https://www.golfdige...b-9-swingweight). His irons are C7.5 (http://www.golfwrx.c...rototype-irons/) to

 

Where does it say 268g headweight....I've seen other articles indicating 280g, but also another indicating he's playing irons that are 10g lighter than previous irons he's played but.then also indicating his wedges we're 280g in the same article-

 

https://www.google.c...dechambeau/amp/

 

From 2016 so not very recent.

 

That's an important link, thanks! The quote about his irons that caught my eye is the following: “One of the main differences in these irons [Cobra] compared to what he was playing before [Edel] is these are lighter,” Schomin said. “They’re about 10 grams lighter through the set. This is actually our stock, standard-weight set. We tested a heavier set of these in Napa (Calif.), and Bryson didn’t think they felt as good.”

 

I believe the "stock" Cobra set has 268g heads. I also heard that number from an interview with Steve Bertkowski, that unfortunately I now can't find.

 

Cobra's Forged One Length iron heads are 270g. Their One Length wedges have all weighed 272g.

 

His irons may swingweight really light, however if you've tried a JumboMax grip in any size the club head feel is way more pronounced.

[MountainGoat]

 

Cobra's Forged One Length iron heads are 270g. Their One Length wedges have all weighed 272g.

 

His irons may swingweight really light, however if you've tried a JumboMax grip in any size the club head feel is way more pronounced.

 

That's interesting, I hadn't thought about that. He's probably playing the forged version which are 2g heavier than Cobra's regular clubs. That would account for a little of the SW difference I'm seeing.

[MountainGoat]

Answering my own question -- Bryson’s irons are 37.5” long with 268g heads. His shafts are 133g. His driver is said to be B9 (https://www.golfdige...b-9-swingweight). His irons are C7.5 (http://www.golfwrx.c...rototype-irons/)

 

Are there any reports of what the moi number is on his irons?

 

None that I've seen. When I finish the 7-iron I'm working on I'll get you a number.

 

I got some numbers if anyone is interested.

 

I put a 123g XL JumboMax on a Cobra F7 7-iron with a Dynamic Golf S300 shaft. Club length without a grip was 37". Club length with the grip on was 37 1/4" when measured to the edge of the grip cap and 37 3/8" when measured to the top of the grip cap. Ungripped MOI was 2625. MOI with a standard 50g grip was 2667; SW = D3.4. MOI with a 63g Lamkin Jumbo grip was 2688; SW = D1.7. MOI with the JumboMax was 2720; SW = C2.1

 

I ordered a Cobra forged SL 7-iron with a Dynamic Gold S300 shaft and XL JumboMax grip. Length to the edge of the grip cap was 37 1/2 inches (1/4" long); MOI = 2850; SW = C 7.9. It's a surprisingly good feeling club. With the JumboMax grip, you hold it in your left hand exactly like you'd hold a tennis racquet - deep into the lifeline of the left hand, not underneath the heal pad. The butt circumference of the grip is 4.75", which is pretty close to a standard tennis racquet.

[biglefthander]

5 up and C3.5 🥰

[phizzy30]

delete

Edited June 9 by phizzy30

[phizzy30]

18 minutes ago, biglefthander said:

5 up and C3.5 🥰

Wow, that's crazy light swing weight at C3.5.  McGinley was saying something about him struggling really bad with wedges because his swing seems to be too in to out causing a lot of draw spin.  Maybe something to do with the lighter swing weight?  

Edited June 9 by phizzy30

[speeder757]

12 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

Wow, that's crazy light swing weight at C3.5.  McGinley was saying something about him struggling really bad with wedges because his swing seems to be too in to out causing a lot of draw spin.  Maybe something to do with the lighter swing weight?  

C3.5 is crazy light. I’m wondering if it’s a typo and was supposed to be D3.5

[phizzy30]

5 minutes ago, speeder757 said:

C3.5 is crazy light. I’m wondering if it’s a typo and was supposed to be D3.5

Good point.  I know I can't feel the head on the down swing with sw being that light.  Same goes for a lot of other golfers.