Lead tape under grip

[duck]

Anyone ever put lead tape at bottom of the grip to change swing weight?

[Quebec Club Ho]

I have a ping g400max but I swapped out the stock ping tour shaft (counterbalanced I believe) for a Fuji Atmos TS blue. The SW ended up at D9 - so I layered on the lead tape not only on the shaft (at the grip) but in the shaft as well (you can put more on without making the grip larger). I got the SW down to a playable D5.

[Big Ben]

If I end up with a very heavy head I will add a strip of lead tape under the grip to mimic a very subtle reminder. It’s basically no different than a counterbalanced shaft. Works perfectly since I like to build up my grips anyway. Some will say all you are doing is fooling the scale but I like my divers to balance D4 so it works for me.

[Mikeski]

Yes. Like I mentioned in another thread to change swing weight I put 7" under the grip on the wedge and 9 iron, 6" on the 8-7 irons and 5" on the 6-5 iron.

The lead tape I used for every inch it equals 1 gram.

[tazsgtr]

Clevis pins also work well for weight in the grip. I wrap some masking tape around them then set them in the butt end of the shaft with some rubber cement.

[Ri_Redneck]

No. But I have done it, along with adding weight to the head, to increase the total weight of the club. I did this because the total weight of the club felt too light and was throwing my tempo off.

 

BT

[duck]

Thank guys. Have a set of Cobra forged that are E6 to E8. Cobra really screwed these up. The build was plus 1/2 with recoil 110's. They used some real heavy heads to get a E swing weight.

[tbone18]

Thank guys. Have a set of Cobra forged that are E6 to E8. Cobra really screwed these up. The build was plus 1/2 with recoil 110's. They used some real heavy heads to get a E swing weight.

plus u can use a heavier grip as well.

[RobS14526]

Thank guys. Have a set of Cobra forged that are E6 to E8. Cobra really screwed these up. The build was plus 1/2 with recoil 110's. They used some real heavy heads to get a E swing weight.

 

That’s crazy talk. Lead tape isn’t going to remedy your situation. Did you order these clubs new?

[GeorgeHWB]

People need to stop being slaves to swingweight. Adding weight to the butt end does not make the head feel lighter. It just makes the club heavier.

[ChronicSlicer]

Clevis pins also work well for weight in the grip. I wrap some masking tape around them then set them in the butt end of the shaft with some rubber cement.

 

I like your style. I have used 1/4" carriage bolts on putter shafts, you can even add nuts for more weight. Super cheap and fully adjustable. It`s hard to find Tour Issued ones though.. :good:

[duck]

Thank guys. Have a set of Cobra forged that are E6 to E8. Cobra really screwed these up. The build was plus 1/2 with recoil 110's. They used some real heavy heads to get a E swing weight.

 

That’s crazy talk. Lead tape isn’t going to remedy your situation. Did you order these clubs new?

[Jagpilotohio]

People need to stop being slaves to swingweight. Adding weight to the butt end does not make the head feel lighter. It just makes the club heavier.

 

You’re absolutely correct. This comes up over and over and over on this site. After 3 1/2 years I’ve grown tired of trying to explain it to people. Howard and Stuart have been posting about it even longer. It must really drive them nuts.

[Mikeski]

People need to stop being slaves to swingweight. Adding weight to the butt end does not make the head feel lighter. It just makes the club heavier.

 

So instead of saying swing weight we should say balance point right? (this is a question not a smart a** question)

By adding lead tape under the grip adds weight on the butt end of the club and you then change the balance point of the club which makes the club head feel lighter. A swing weight scale will tell you this or even finding the balance point of the club by balancing the club on your finger before and after adding tape will tell the same thing.

Even though you are adding lead tape under the grip and making the club heavier you're a counter balancing the club to where the head feels lighter in the swing.

[GeorgeHWB]

People need to stop being slaves to swingweight. Adding weight to the butt end does not make the head feel lighter. It just makes the club heavier.

Even though you are adding lead tape under the grip and making the club heavier you're a counter balancing the club to where the head feels lighter in the swing.

 

Nope.

[Valtiel]

People need to stop being slaves to swingweight. Adding weight to the butt end does not make the head feel lighter. It just makes the club heavier.

 

So instead of saying swing weight we should say balance point right? (this is a question not a smart a** question)

By adding lead tape under the grip adds weight on the butt end of the club and you then change the balance point of the club which makes the club head feel lighter. A swing weight scale will tell you this or even finding the balance point of the club by balancing the club on your finger before and after adding tape will tell the same thing.

Even though you are adding lead tape under the grip and making the club heavier you're a counter balancing the club to where the head feels lighter in the swing.

 

For some people it may be perceived that way but the crowd that says "just add butt weight" is not accounting for what actually happens which is the static weight increasing. Also it should be noted that this is NOT the same as a counterbalanced shaft which takes existing weight and redistributes it towards the handle. You are ADDING weight to the equation. Yes balance point changes, yes some people will feel a change in perception of the head weight, but you are adding weight to the club which will make the club physically heavier to swing. Take the extreme example for instance...put 2lbs of weight into the butt of the shaft and see what happens then. The club feels like a sledgehammer and your perception of head weight no longer matters because of increase in static weight, it would read as an extremely light swingweight. This is what you're doing when you add butt weight thinking that its making the club lighter or that the swingweight is "decreasing". Swing weight was never intended to be used with anything other than 50g of weight at the butt of the club (standard grip), once you deviate from that standard the numbers stop meaning the same thing and can not be used the same way.

 

The second post for example; adding lead tape under the grip to bring your swingweight from D9 down to D5 has not actually made that club D5, because you could achieve that same D5 by cutting off 1.25" from the butt of the shaft. And do you think that those two ways of getting to D5 would feel the same? Absolutely not, one will feel much heavier than the other, so you see there how you can't use swingweight numbers 1:1 once you start adding butt weight.

[Howard_Jones]

People need to stop being slaves to swingweight. Adding weight to the butt end does not make the head feel lighter. It just makes the club heavier.

 

You’re absolutely correct. This comes up over and over and over on this site. After 3 1/2 years I’ve grown tired of trying to explain it to people. Howard and Stuart have been posting about it even longer. It must really drive them nuts.

 

Yes it is, this ONLY ADDS TOTAL WEIGHT, it make no difference to head weight does it? no it dont, so if the head feels to heavy, we will either have to reduce head weight if thats possible, or take a look on play length, its no other options really, except CW balanced shafts, but grips dont work the same way as a CW balanced shaft does (same shaft weight, different weight distribution by design).

 

I use Heavy grips as CW myself in my irons, its there to replace some of the shaft weight ive lost to keep my tempo timing as i like it to be, but it makes no difference what so ever for feel of head weight.

 

for PUTTERS this is completely different where we can add weight grip side, but we DONT take down head weight, we ADD RESISTANCE TO THE GRIP SIDE to prevent the players wrists to i break, but it "feels like" we took of head weight. That happens because of the way we "move" the putter, while a club for full swing is a different story.

 

MOI or Actual resistance is whats interesting here, since SW value is meant to be a short cut for club MOI or balance, but when we compare the return number from a SW scale when we go up and down in grip weight with a Digital MOI scale, we get to see that MOI always goes UP when we add weight, even if its grip side.

 

The numbers might not be large, and because of the balance point of the grip itself, both the SW scale and the MOI scale respond different, so it seem like there is no system to it either since we sometimes can add a lot without moving MOI much, and other times its just a small difference in weight, but rather large as MOI

 

If the issue is feel of head weight and fat shots, go down on head weight or play length. If we add weight grip side, TOTAL goes up, and at the bottom of the swing, Total wgt is whats pulling, so if fat shots from a heavy head was the issue, it becomes even worse after adding grip weight.

 

Dont do it, unless its to add total weight on clubs lighter than they should be.

 

Cut and paste from a compare of SW vs MOI with different grip wgt - (short shaft, thats why SW was that low)

- MOI without grip = 2409 / SW scale say C3

- MOI with a 50.5 grams std OEM slip grip = 2415 / SW scale say B4

- MOI with a 58.5 grams New Decade MID size = 2422 / SW scale say B3

- MOI with a 123.6 grams Jumbo Max XL = 2439 / SW scale say A 0.5

[Stuart_G]

So instead of saying swing weight we should say balance point right? (this is a question not a smart a** question)

 

No Swing weight management is not really about balance point either. It's really all about managing the head weight for the given length and length change (and to some smaller degree the shaft weight and balance point).

 

The swing weight scale was originally designed as a way to approximate matching the MOI of the club (about the grip). And it's head weight over a particular playing length is going to be the dominant factor in controlling that MOI. It's also the only real factor the builders were able to change when the scale was designed. There was not the same wide range of shaft weights and grip weights and sizes. So length and head weight were the ONLY two variables it was intended to be used for. Yes shaft weight and balance point does contribute as well, but even today, in a swing weight matching context (eg. iron set), the shafts will generally all be the same so it's still not really a dominant factor or variable in the build when it comes to matching the irons in a set. Or to put it a bit more accurately, shaft weight should be chosen to get a good fit for the total static weight of the club, not to manage swing weight. The SW fitting and management comes after the shaft selection, not before.

[Mikeski]

People need to stop being slaves to swingweight. Adding weight to the butt end does not make the head feel lighter. It just makes the club heavier.

 

So instead of saying swing weight we should say balance point right? (this is a question not a smart a** question)

By adding lead tape under the grip adds weight on the butt end of the club and you then change the balance point of the club which makes the club head feel lighter. A swing weight scale will tell you this or even finding the balance point of the club by balancing the club on your finger before and after adding tape will tell the same thing.

Even though you are adding lead tape under the grip and making the club heavier you're a counter balancing the club to where the head feels lighter in the swing.

 

For some people it may be perceived that way but the crowd that says "just add butt weight" is not accounting for what actually happens which is the static weight increasing. Also it should be noted that this is NOT the same as a counterbalanced shaft which takes existing weight and redistributes it towards the handle. You are ADDING weight to the equation. Yes balance point changes, yes some people will feel a change in perception of the head weight, but you are adding weight to the club which will make the club physically heavier to swing. Take the extreme example for instance...put 2lbs of weight into the butt of the shaft and see what happens then. The club feels like a sledgehammer and your perception of head weight no longer matters because of increase in static weight, it would read as an extremely light swingweight. This is what you're doing when you add butt weight thinking that its making the club lighter or that the swingweight is "decreasing". Swing weight was never intended to be used with anything other than 50g of weight at the butt of the club (standard grip), once you deviate from that standard the numbers stop meaning the same thing and can not be used the same way.

 

The second post for example; adding lead tape under the grip to bring your swingweight from D9 down to D5 has not actually made that club D5, because you could achieve that same D5 by cutting off 1.25" from the butt of the shaft. And do you think that those two ways of getting to D5 would feel the same? Absolutely not, one will feel much heavier than the other, so you see there how you can't use swingweight numbers 1:1 once you start adding butt weight.

 

Great explanation. Thanks

[RobS14526]

You guys have done a great job explaining swingweight and adding weight to the back end of a club. However, you’re missing the point that the OP’s irons are E8 with 110g shafts at +1/2”. Something is going on with the weight of his iron heads.

[DaveGoodrich]

Really, what we are talking about is increasing the total static weight (and club moi), without increasing the swing weight "feel." So for folks who have liked the feel or performance when adding weight to the grip end, would they be better fit into a heavier shaft instead? Or is there really a "thing" where some folks prefer a heavy club with a (relatively) light head.

[DaveGoodrich]

You guys have done a great job explaining swingweight and adding weight to the back end of a club. However, you’re missing the point that the OP’s irons are E8 with 110g shafts at +1/2”. Something is going on with the weight of his iron heads.

 

Yes, something that is not going to be fixed by adding weight to the grip end. When swinging them, they will still feel like the heads are too heavy. By adding weight to the grip end, now they will just feel heavier when not swinging also.

[Howard_Jones]

Really, what we are talking about is increasing the total static weight (and club moi), without increasing the swing weight "feel." So for folks who have liked the feel or performance when adding weight to the grip end, would they be better fit into a heavier shaft instead? Or is there really a "thing" where some folks prefer a heavy club with a (relatively) light head.

 

Total weight and weight distribution is personal preference and what works the best.

- In my case, ive gone down from DG steel shafts to Light graphite (about 85 grams uncut as comparable wgt) to take some stress off my back, but its so light i can swing them right. To compensate for that, ive added weight grip side to add back some resistance, but keep the BP of the club closer to my own spine and back to lower the stress on my back.

 

Its NOT a good solution, but for me the only solution if i want to keep playing, and avoid those problems i way to often run into where i have to stop playing after only 9 holes.

 

So yes, those who have seen improvement by adding weight grip side, will in some cases benefit from a higher shaft weight, but like already stated, its personal preference involved too, and what we have found to work for us.

[firstbatch]

People need to stop being slaves to swingweight. Adding weight to the butt end does not make the head feel lighter. It just makes the club heavier.

 

You’re absolutely correct. This comes up over and over and over on this site. After 3 1/2 years I’ve grown tired of trying to explain it to people. Howard and Stuart have been posting about it even longer. It must really drive them nuts.

 

Yes it is, this ONLY ADDS TOTAL WEIGHT, it make no difference to head weight does it? no it dont, so if the head feels to heavy, we will either have to reduce head weight if thats possible, or take a look on play length, its no other options really, except CW balanced shafts, but grips dont work the same way as a CW balanced shaft does (same shaft weight, different weight distribution by design).

 

I use Heavy grips as CW myself in my irons, its there to replace some of the shaft weight ive lost to keep my tempo timing as i like it to be, but it makes no difference what so ever for feel of head weight.

 

for PUTTERS this is completely different where we can add weight grip side, but we DONT take down head weight, we ADD RESISTANCE TO THE GRIP SIDE to prevent the players wrists to i break, but it "feels like" we took of head weight. That happens because of the way we "move" the putter, while a club for full swing is a different story.

 

MOI or Actual resistance is whats interesting here, since SW value is meant to be a short cut for club MOI or balance, but when we compare the return number from a SW scale when we go up and down in grip weight with a Digital MOI scale, we get to see that MOI always goes UP when we add weight, even if its grip side.

 

The numbers might not be large, and because of the balance point of the grip itself, both the SW scale and the MOI scale respond different, so it seem like there is no system to it either since we sometimes can add a lot without moving MOI much, and other times its just a small difference in weight, but rather large as MOI

 

If the issue is feel of head weight and fat shots, go down on head weight or play length. If we add weight grip side, TOTAL goes up, and at the bottom of the swing, Total wgt is whats pulling, so if fat shots from a heavy head was the issue, it becomes even worse after adding grip weight.

 

Dont do it, unless its to add total weight on clubs lighter than they should be.

 

Cut and paste from a compare of SW vs MOI with different grip wgt - (short shaft, thats why SW was that low)

- MOI without grip = 2409 / SW scale say C3

- MOI with a 50.5 grams std OEM slip grip = 2415 / SW scale say B4

- MOI with a 58.5 grams New Decade MID size = 2422 / SW scale say B3

- MOI with a 123.6 grams Jumbo Max XL = 2439 / SW scale say A 0.5

 

So Howard your saying that moi fitting is essentially trying to determine how much heft an individual can swing well/comfortably / efficiently? Then a build like Bryson D would take exceptional strength to swing even though SW scale would read light?

[Howard_Jones]

i have not seen specs on those clubs you refer to so i cant tell, but heavy is heavy, even if its grip side.

We have to move that weight during the swing, but it will provide less resistance than the same amount of weight added to the shaft or head, but MOI goes up when we add weight, thats the point here, we cant remove resistance or feel of head weight by adding grip eight, that cant be done, we only fool the SW scale to return a error value.

[firstbatch]

Ok thanks

There is an interesting discussion going on here http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1736566-dechambeau-sw/page__pid__18556928#entry18556928 about BD build that are producing B9 driver and C7.5 irons and it would seem the moi would be a high number or in my mind require lots of strength to swing for avg guy?

 

[Jagpilotohio]

Ok thanks

There is an interesting discussion going on here http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1736566-dechambeau-sw/page__pid__18556928#entry18556928 about BD build that are producing B9 driver and C7.5 irons and it would seem the moi would be a high number or in my mind require lots of strength to swing for avg guy?

 

Why? His shaft weights and head weights are actually very close to “Standard “. Those swingweights are very LIGHT because he uses giant super heavy grips which alters the swingweight reading pretty dramatically. The Actual “feel” or the head weight is still pretty normal.

 

We covered this on that other thread. His iron heads are only 6-7 grams heavier than “Standard “. If he used “standard” sized and weighted grips his irons would only be about d-5. Just about 3 points heavier than “normal”.

 

 

Edit... I will add one interesting thing. Oddly enough, even though he likes his irons a touch “heavy”, he uses a very long driver and he uses LIGHTER than standard weights in that Cobra head. Even If he had a “normal” weight grip on that driver he would still only be in the Mid to high C swingweight range at nearly 46 inches long. Pretty bizarre.

[KRW59]

Thank guys. Have a set of Cobra forged that are E6 to E8. Cobra really screwed these up. The build was plus 1/2 with recoil 110's. They used some real heavy heads to get a E swing weight.

 

That’s crazy talk. Lead tape isn’t going to remedy your situation. Did you order these clubs new?

 

Back to the OP's original question...are you sure these are only. 5" overlength??

 

I have a set of Forged Tec Blacks built by Cobra to .5" overlength. The 6 iron is

38.0" long with a standard grip (non Arccos). Swing weight is D-2 .

 

Only way I can see E-6 to E-8 swing weights possible is if they forgot to butt

trim the shafts to play length , and just installed the grips on a full length

shaft. Making them @ 2.5" over length. That , or heads are some how @ 20 +

grams extra heavy.....very unlikely... " crazy "....

[duck]

my 6 iron is 37 7/8.

[KRW59]

my 6 iron is 37 7/8.

 

Wow... if a real swingweight weight scale was used and not calculated , and the

E-6 to E-8 was not a typo , there is no logical reason they should be that heavy.