Advice on how to “play golf” vs “golf swing”

[LeftDaddy]

I’ve heard many on here say that when you are on the course, you need to play the shot on front of you...not play golf swing.

 

That makes sense to me, but I’ve never had it work before. If I’m not at least somewhat focused on a swing thought, I’ll naturally move into my swing faults and hit crappy shots.

 

But lately I’ve been working on some swing changes and at the range it all looks pretty darn good. But on the course, standing over the ball, I have about 5 swing thoughts and I’m playing the worst golf I’ve played in years. I have glimmers of hope with some really good shots mixed in, but I’m generally hitting it all over the planet.

 

So how do those of you that have it somewhat figured out “play golf” vs “golf swing”? Do you have any swing thoughts? Do you think about swing thoughts with your practice swings but not over the ball? Do you just relax over the ball and make an easy swing? What’s the secret to this? I would appreciate any help. Thanks!

[wmblake2000]

I have been in that same boat ... for a long time. Here’s what I’ve learned: until I became more confident in my new swing, there just wasn’t a solution. No swing thoughts = old swing. A bunch of swing thoughts = a bunch-of-swing-thoughts swing. Solution: lots - LOTS - of slow motion and/or 100 yard 7 irons until the new motion sinks in.

[BottleCap]

Lots of people on the range don’t even play golf swing anymore, they’re into “golf swing positions “ now. They swing so slow it’s crazy now.

[Tanner25]

Good topic. I feel I have to have one swing thought going back and one through. If not, my bad swing gets even worse. Would love to just see the target and shoot. There had been a great thread here about this subject about a year ago. If I find it, I will post it.

 

Here it is

 

https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1714006/meta-awareness-learning/p1

 

jbw749 has some great posts on the subject.

[IamMarkMac]

I will typically have 2 range sessions between golf games. I'll definitely think out my swings there. If things aren't going my way mid-game, I might think about what I'm doing while I'm walking,

Once it's time to take a shot though there's only one thought, "Don't think about it." I literally can't make a good swing if I'm thinking about a swing mechanic.

[puttingmatt]

The time for golf swing is at the range, and only the range.

At the course, its time for golf game. Play for position, to take advantage of the hole if possible, and get to the green and score the best you can.

Keep it separate, and stay focused on the task at hand.

[RichieHunt]

To start, go on the range and try to 'play golf' on the range. Randomize your shots and the clubs you're hitting. Hit a 7-iron towards the left flag on one shot, then the right flag on the range on the next shot. Hit driver on one shot at a target then the next shot hit a 9-iron. Use your pre-shot routine on the range as well.

 

When on the course in your pre-shot routine...audibly 'call your shot.' Find the target you want, factor in the conditions (wind, lie, etc) and call your shout...out loud. For instance, you may have a 150-yard shot to the hole. The wind may be blowing to the right and you say...out loud....something like 'okay, the wind is blowing out to the right. My target is going to be the window of the house (in the background) and I'm going to hit it straight and the wind is going to take it and drift the ball towards the flag.

 

Now, you don't need to say it really loud and sound like a lunatic. But, you can say it under your breath and nobody can hear you. But, it's really important to say it out loud. When you don't, it's easy for your mind to race and creep in new thoughts and now your external focus is no good because your main objective is unclear. Saying it out loud keeps the objective clear and allows you to have better external focus.

 

I have started to realize that part of good golf is being able to focus in a 4 hour time span. You don't actually focus for 4-straight hours. But, in that time you're playing...when you're about to hit the ball and actually hit the ball...you need to focus.

 

Another tip is to really get your pre-shot routine down. You can practice this on the range. Try to keep the routine as short as you can (while still being able to go thru your routine and focus). And a big thing is to try to keep the routine as consistent as you can on every shot. Not only making roughly the same swings, but having it take roughly the same amount of time. So if it takes you 22 seconds to go through your routine and hit the shot...try to go through your routine on each shot in 22 seconds. A lot of critical shots players start to take too much time to pull the trigger. Or if they start hitting a few bad shots, they will rush their pre-shot routine. Instead, just keep the same routine. If you're finding yourself slowing down, work to pull the trigger. If you're going to fast...force yourself to slow down.

 

Lastly, I would recommend getting on Google Earth and learning how to use the tool. You can map out your courses and where your targets off the tee should be. This way you know the objective before each tee shot and can have confidence in it. And you may be surprised how bad of a target you tend to choose because the perspective from the tee box causes an illusion. For instance, the home course I grew up playing...played roughly 45 holes a day during the summer as a teenager...I never realized how on some holes my target was well off from the actual center of the fairway when I got on Google Earth and examined it.

 

Now I can go on Google Earth and in roughly 20 minutes put together a target for almost every hole on a course. I can use that as a reference every time I play the course. This helps me with my external focus because I'm in the mindset of where the target is and where to aim to play for factors like wind, lie, etc. Then I just get up there and make my pre-shot routine, 'call my shot' and fire.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[LeftDaddy]

Good stuff so far. Thanks!

 

I’ve read that some range time needs to be “swing mechanics” focused and some needs to be “pretend playing” focused. I do a decent job of mixing in some of both. I usually start with mechanics and once I feel good about it I do “pretend” play. I’ll “play” the first 3 holes on my course on the range, and of course I’m always par or better ?

 

What I don’t do a good job of is making every swing on the range be like a real swing on the course. I don’t always go through a routine, and sometimes I’m guilty of just beating balls. I definitely need to change that part of my routine. I’ve also been working so hard on my irons for about a year that I’ve neglected chipping and putting. It is showing on the course a little bit.

 

The thing that has me so perplexed by this question, though, is that almost every really good round of golf I’ve had has been “golf swing” focused. I’ve had some swing thought that was working and I stayed with it until it stopped working. Only twice have I played really well and been mostly devoid of swing thoughts. The first time I broke 80, I was just so relaxed on every swing. My only real thought was just to stay loose and relaxed. It was weird. It worked for that one day, and I’ve only been able to make it work one other time. And honestly I suspect it was just another form of a swing thought that just happened to get me into a good swing position because of my “looseness”. Since then I’ve broken 80 twice, and with both of those I was very “swing thought “ focused. I had a thought that worked and worked for most of the round.

 

My coach tells me my swing is really close but it is my tempo that needs some work, and I’m a little too tightly wound. I’ve tried to slow down my tempo but I hit it fat virtually every time I do that. I guess I need to keep at it though.

 

Keep it coming! Thanks!

[cubanstogie]

I just turned 52, and until last month I never laid down alignment sticks on range. Id hit wedge a few shots, 7 iron maybe 5 iron then on to driver. Unless I have only 10 minutes til tee time and am just warming up I will never practice on range without them now. The sticks don't lie, the better you get you won't be satisfied with hitting the ball solidly if its wrong direction. And like many others said you don't want to have too many swing thoughts on course. Preparation is the key to anything in life, including golf. My only swing thought on course is to turn right butt cheek away from target, then left toward it,or on long iron its get weight to front foot on downswing. Anything more and I am froze up.

[juststeve]

I find the admonition to play golf, not golf swing a bit strange. When I'm striking a ball on the course I am most certainly focused on the swing, ie. how I'm moving the club. Why? Because:

 

1. If I swing the club correctly the ball goes to the target;

2. If I swing the club incorrectly the ball doesn't go to the target; and

3. The only thing I can control directly is how I swing the club.

 

I can certainly endorse most of what Richie said above but after doing everything he recommends you still have to be focused on making a proper swing to make the ball go to the target. The idea that one can employ some mystical power, just think target and the ball goes there is I think an illusion. The ball only goes where the club sends it.

 

Steve

[LeftDaddy]

Yeah, I read a fair amount of the “meta-awareness” thread linked above. I’ll admit that my mind just doesn’t work that way (ie some mystical level of thinking that blocks out distractions and lets me almost remove my consciousness from the task of hitting the ball). I do believe there is something to it, and the only reason I believe it is that I’ve stood over some putts in my lifetime where I just knew they were going in, and they always did. I didn’t “control” this thought at all. It’s just like a visual popped into my mind as I was standing over the ball and I saw the line perfectly and almost saw myself in the 3rd person stroking the putt perfectly. It has happened maybe 4 or 5 times. I don’t think it is coincidence. Therefore I think there is something to it. I just don’t know how to achieve that with my mind, but I’m willing to give it a try.

 

I’m somewhat intrigued by the comparisons to throwing a baseball or shooting a basketball, and how those are just “done” without a lot of conscious thought. There’s some truth to that, for sure, but the golf swing is a much more complex mechanical movement than shooting a basketball. When I release a basketball, I have the “feel” of the shot in my fingertips and my mind lets go of the ball at the perfect moment a lot of times. Is there an equivalent in golf, though?

[wmblake2000]

> @juststeve said:

> I find the admonition to play golf, not golf swing a bit strange. When I'm striking a ball on the course I am most certainly focused on the swing, ie. how I'm moving the club. Why? Because:

>

> 1. If I swing the club correctly the ball goes to the target;

> 2. If I swing the club incorrectly the ball doesn't go to the target; and

> 3. The only thing I can control directly is how I swing the club.

>

> I can certainly endorse most of what Richie said above but after doing everything he recommends you still have to be focused on making a proper swing to make the ball go to the target. The idea that one can employ some mystical power, just think target and the ball goes there is I think an illusion. The ball only goes where the club sends it.

>

> Steve

 

@juststeve , no matter what, I am always conscious of my swing - sometimes more intimate with it as it happens, sometimes less so. But like you, I just don’t understand how not paying attention to it works. Maybe brains work differently and I think I recall some study about golf saying some focus on target and some on body.

 

When I play my best I have this almost vivid clarity of how the whole swing (or stroke, if putting) hangs together (the key sensations, in sequence) and a sense of trust/optimism that I will execute exactly that. Then as I make the shot it’s like I monitor (in very brief mental shorthand) this image.

 

Now it’s a fair criticism of myself that sometimes I get so wrapped up in that that I fail to first really get a good idea of where/how I want the shot to go. And the better that is - the more vivid and focused, the better. But that doesn’t diminish focus on the swing, it just informs the swing.

 

Even putting, the simplest of strokes which I have now had the same core idea of for a longish time (so it’s well learned) I still have focus on key sensations (back shoulders relaxed, pace and length of stroke, etc)

 

I know others play well with a different mindset. But for me it feels like I’m suboptimizing when I do what they describe.

 

 

[MelloYello]

I agree with the above.

 

I'm very body-conscious as well and the more I think about it, I couldn't play without some level of that. Maybe if I hit 1,000 balls a day my swing would be so ingrained that I could just trust it to _'happen around me'_ as I focused on the target but at the same, maybe this is all a matter of semantics? Making a swing without focusing on some physical element of it sounds physically impossible when you think about it, doesn't it? So with all due respect, maybe the folks who are preaching about the target are still feeling themselves turn back, move their arms and hit the ball in much the same way you and I are? It's not like the best players in the world aren't out there with some form of swing thought in just the same way you're describing. Ultimately they're just better because they've practice far more.

 

IDK, but this all seems a little bit silly from a big picture perspective. If your brain wants to focus on the movements you're making, get out of it's way and let it do what it's trained to do. Your brain will give you the swing thoughts that you need. Don't invent them or resist them.

 

Nothing that RichieHunt said above (i.e. surveying the shots, monitoring the wind, imagining a shot shape, etc.) puts any limitation on having a swing thought or being aware of a physical sensation you're trying to achieve during a swing if that's what your brain instinctively does. IMHO, you have to place your awareness _somewhere_ during the actual swing.

 

So I think you're talking about something altogether different from strategy. I wouldn't worry about being "too technical." I don't even know if you can be too technical TBH. Who made that up? The constraint on that would be focus and mental energy. Any golfer can tell you that you can't carry 5 swing thoughts for 18 holes and enjoy the experience. You'll be a basket case half-way through the round.

 

So, practically-speaking I think there's a reason to simplify your thoughts but I don't think it has anything to do with there being some rule about being conscious of unconscious of your swing.

[kadey]

Isn't the objective in mastering anything in life is to get to a point where you're not thinking about anything?

[hacker49]

> @wmblake2000 said:

> I have been in that same boat ... for a long time. Here’s what I’ve learned: until I became more confident in my new swing, there just wasn’t a solution. No swing thoughts = old swing. A bunch of swing thoughts = a bunch-of-swing-thoughts swing. Solution: lots - LOTS - of slow motion and/or 100 yard 7 irons until the new motion sinks in.

 

This is basically where I am right now. I have been taking lessons for a couple of years now on a fairly regular basis. I have finally worked out most of the problems I was having and am now focused on mostly one thing now. My instructor last lesson told me to take the new "working on my fault" swing, which is basically a 3/4 punch type swing, and play with that. It didn't really translate well my first time out because I had those golf things interfering with those swing things. I tried to just act like the course was the range. Pick a target and concentrate on my swing. If I hit it short or long it didn't matter to me as long as I struck it well and fairly on line. My focus was did I hit it correctly. I can work on my distance once I get back to a full swing, or figure out the distance for my "new" swing.

 

For most of us "playing golf" interferes with all the swing stuff. How many times have you encountered a shot over water and think, just don't hit it in the water? Then the next thing you do is hit it in the water. Or on a long par 5 try to kill your tee shot and throw your timing off and hit a horrible shot.

 

 

[Scottbox]

I really like The Practice Manual: The Ultimate Guide for Golfers by Adam Young.

Learn more: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1507723172/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_HrrOCbQJZV36F

[LeftDaddy]

I’ve been thinking about this thread a lot. I think I might be on to something that works for me. And I’m in a spot where I can’t hit any balls for a little while and that is probably a good thing.

 

Anyway, I know what the sensation should be at impact. And I know how to start my swing. So shouldn’t I just go through my PSR to size up the shot, pick it, visualize it, and then take a few “feel at impact “ practice swings? Then stand over the ball and recreate that feel at impact?

 

I feel like that is a reasonable compromise. It lets my brain take over the steps needed to get back to the right place at impact, but uses my swing starter as a “swing thought “.

 

I guess I actually have to hit a few balls to see if it works, but I was trying to come up with something that would let my brain take over the shot and I came up with this.

[kylemd]

I have played my best golf whwn not really thinking of anything except target and hitting ball in that general direction. I remember a round I played with my residency training director at his club... hed get me out of the hospital some afternoons to play whem it was slow. I was comming off 36 plus hours of in house ( thats the hospital) call and was tired but went and played anyway. Carded a clean even par. Swear to God. Proximity to hole was closest I have ever had . Every shot was on or near target. I wasent thinking do this or dont do that ... It was just ...” oh yeah pin is there, hit ball there. “

Pros talk about the ZONE. Maybe thats what it was. I believe it was my brain as so dog gone tired that I was on golf autopilot. I didnt let thinking get “ in the way” . I try to recapture that everytime I peg it up. Just me grass and target. Just hit the shot required. Dont let thinking get in the way and just “ do it”.

In the words of Yoda... “Do or do not, there is no try”! Master I don’t believe it! “ And that is why you fail”

Your brain overthinking a shot can cloud your bodies ability to pull it off. Turn of the thoughts. Clear mind good shots. Its a game. Have fun.

 

[MelloYello]

It’s probably also worth pointing out that the circumstances of the round will affect how well you can pull things off. This topic seems like a chicken-and-egg thing. If you’re playing well you can stress a little more about swing feels. But if you aren’t pulling anything off, well, good luck. It’ll probably seem like anything you try is ‘too much.’

 

I’ll give you an example. I played with my normal group Friday morning and it felt like maybe the worst round I’ve had in a year. My tee shots were all over the place and I didn’t putt particularly well either. I can’t explain why but internally I was nervous and anxious from the start. I think I was just physically tired from a long week despite being awake thanks to some coffee (mistake!). Anyhow, I was pressing through the entire front 9. We were the 2nd group on the course and yet we were continually waiting on the super-slow group ahead for the first several holes thus we were mostly spending our mental energy wondering if and when they’d let us through. Even though it eventually cleared out, the round was lost after about 6-7 holes. It was a disaster both mentally and physically—the kind of experience you just want to forget.

 

Fast forward to Sunday evening and I played the most casual 18 holes you could imagine and scored relatively well (tied my best so far in 2019) hitting half the greens, putting respectably and managing my tee shots. It was a little chilly and quite blustery on certain holes. I was calm, cool and collected the entire time. In fact, I went thinking I’d just be doing range work and ended up playing 18. I go ahead of another group on the 3rd hole I never waited on a single shot after that.

 

The discrepancy in those two experiences, one being awful and the other blissful, reminded me that I just enjoy golf more at certain times of the day. My conclusion after many years of playing is that I’m 10x more likely to have that blissful experience_ in the evening_. For whatever reason, playing in the morning is just more stressful to me. It’s not that I don’t _want_ to play, it’s just that I find it much harder to establish a groove. Whether I arrive well before the tee time or just in time, my brain seems to move at 1000-mph and I end up over-stressing about everything. Coffee or not I just don’t play well going off early.

 

So I think all this talk about swing thoughts really depends on extraneous stuff like that. How are you feeling? Are you physically tired or not? Are you out there with an agenda or are you just out there to relax before the next week at work?

 

I agree with the guy above who talked about a great round after a long week. Sometimes it’s good to be mentally drained. Some of my best workouts came when I almost didn’t work out because I felt too tired. But when you aren’t thinking you tend to just _‘go’_ and in certain physical activities that’s the perfect scenario. That’s probably why I don’t play well in the mornings. I can’t stop myself from over-thinking and I just don’t string together as many good holes versus when I play later in the afternoon or evening.

 

If I go back to last evening when it was just pure joy, I didn’t have to try to do things a certain way. Things just _worked_. I could survey the situation, pick a shot, select a swing feel, set up and execute pretty well and I didn’t think my way through any bit of that. The ball went more or less where I wanted and led to me staying in a natural rhythm.

 

[mikpga]

Incorporate your "swing thought/feel" into your pre shot routine...

Once you step into the "batter's box", see the shot you want to hit and swing...

[wmblake2000]

> @MelloYello said:

 

>

> IDK, but this all seems a little bit silly from a big picture perspective. If your brain wants to focus on the movements you're making, get out of it's way and let it do what it's trained to do. Your brain will give you the swing thoughts that you need. Don't invent them or resist them.

>

This^^^

[3jacker]

There is no secret.

To play well, you need to be free of thinking too much about your swing. Which means you have to have a good swing. Which means you have to put in the reps. Properly.

Otherwise going with a natural crappy move versus an unpredictable swing-thoughty move probably just about equals out and it doesn't matter.

[LeftDaddy]

Played today with a “no swing thought “ swing. Just stood over the ball and imagined a good move into the ball that would produce the shot I wanted. First time I’ve ever tried this, and I’m all in now! I didn’t score that well. My driver was still a bit wild. Irons were really good though. About as good as they’ve ever been. I think the only reason driver was a little wild was that I was a bit too quick and wasn’t getting behind the ball enough.

 

Anyway, just wanted to update this thread to say that while it wasn’t there yet, it was definitely promising enough to keep at it. I still need to work on picturing the shot in my mind prior to swinging (along with the moves I need to create that shot). I did it some to good effect, but definitely didn’t do it consistently enough.

[DaveLeeNC]

FWIW, I play my best when I play "golf shots" instead of "golf swing". But this correct statement is most misleading as the cause and effect (for me) is not what you think. When my game is 'on' (by my standards) I can play "golf shots" and play well. When my game is not on just playing "golf shots" is a disaster. Reverting to playing "golf swing" does not typically generate good golf, but it can usually avoid a disaster.

 

When things are REALLY bad I have to revert to only half swings on approach shots. E.G., I might hit a half swing 5w from 140 yards. This is for times that both playing "golf shots" and "golf swing" are disasters.

 

dave

[jc4birdie]

I’ve just now kind of emerged from where the OP finds himself. 2+ yr swing change; if I didn’t focus on my thoughts/keys, my old swing would reappear. If I did focus on thoughts, I was bound up and had too much tension. The rebuild seems to have taken hold, at least most of the time now. Good news: you’ll hit it so much more solidly once the changes “take”, and the tension will fade, which serves the solidity of contact...self-fulfilling prophecy, of sorts. Bad news, and I’m serious: better ballstriking will lead to a maddening bout of 3-putting. I’ve played 27 holes over the last 4 days....have hit 20 of 27 greens, and 3-putted EIGHT of those 20 hit greens. In the old days of hitting 2 or 3 greens a round, I nearly never 3-putted. SOOOO frustrated right now....but I was warned this would happen; more GIR raises your expectations, which raises tension, and well, you know........just have to trust that my speed control on the greens will return.

[JAMH03]

You need a "practice box" and a "play box".

 

Not sure if it was Pia Nielson or Bob Rotella but that's the solution.

[LeftDaddy]

Lol. Part of the reason I didn’t score so well today was that my short game was pretty awful. I purposefully didn’t practice before the round, and I was at a “strange” course and never really got a feel for the speed of the greens. I didn’t make anything with the putter, but I could chalk that up to unfamiliar greens. However, my chips and pitches were bad too. I was stuck between release patterns ?. Actually, while I tried not to play “swing thought” golf on these shots, I definitely needed to remind myself pre-swing to play back in my stance, etc. I didn’t do that (part of the poor concentration I mentioned earlier). I think I know how to “fix” the short game problems I had, but I’ve definitely stopped practicing it. It will catch up to me. In fact, it already has I’m sure.

[b.mattay]

I always keep two swing thoughts while playing, one for takeaway and one for transition. I try to make those a “feel” during my practice swing(s).

[MaineMariner]

If you're a weekend round/one range session per week golfer like me and probably 98% of the amateurs playing this game, I think it's REALLY difficult, if not impossible, to develop the muscle memory necessary to just hit an unconscious "golf shot." I have to think about what I am doing to SOME degree, because I just don't have the muscle memory where it needs to be.

 

However, I think, as noted by others in this thread, that a super-conscious swing thought-driven swing also saps you of your innate athleticism and produces similarly bad results. Our body just doesn't work on demand like that. That's the conundrum, right?

 

I don't have a solution, but I have thought about this quite a bit. Given the lack of time available for me to hit golf balls, I've tried to give myself any mental advantage that I can. My best solution is this: when I'm standing behind my ball I take two practice swings. They aren't even real swings, really, but quick half swings, but I'm thinking pretty deeply about a couple swing thoughts that I know I need to have. For me, that's typically my takeaway, proper hip movement, balance, "covering" the ball with my chest, and my right shoulder. I'm not concerned with ALL those things, those are the just typical thoughts.

 

Then, without hesitation, I step up to the ball, assume my stance, and immediately begin my swing. During my real swing, I'm probably thinking ONE thing, usually my hip movement or balance, because I need to think of something. This immediate meaningful practice swing to real swing is the best way for me to get my muscle memory to work for me.

 

Then again, I'm not very good...

[MelloYello]

> @LeftDaddy said:

> Lol. Part of the reason I didn’t score so well today was that my short game was pretty awful. I purposefully didn’t practice before the round, and I was at a “strange” course and never really got a feel for the speed of the greens. I didn’t make anything with the putter, but I could chalk that up to unfamiliar greens. However, my chips and pitches were bad too. I was stuck between release patterns ?. Actually, while I tried not to play “swing thought” golf on these shots, I definitely needed to remind myself pre-swing to play back in my stance, etc. I didn’t do that (part of the poor concentration I mentioned earlier). I think I know how to “fix” the short game problems I had, but I’ve definitely stopped practicing it. It will catch up to me. In fact, it already has I’m sure.

 

Man, reading you describe your game is like looking in the mirror. I bet 99% of people here probably play the same way--hypercritical of every shot. I just get the sense that you over-analyze things and that you aren't really as relaxed as you ought to be. That kind of approach can't be good. I like that you recently tried giving some of that up in an attempt to play more freely. I think that'll lead to you being happier and quite possibly to better golf.

 

It's easy to press. And people usually suck worse when they press. I think a lot of guys like us would do just as well if not better if we stopped thinking. I did much the same as you this past weekend and experienced the same thing: long game was plenty respectable and most of the crippling misses were on short stuff, a few putts and a few wedge shots with a new 58 I had in the bag.