2019 behavior in bunkers.

[TheCityGame]

I know, I know. . .we have a thousand 2019 Rules threads, but I haven't seen much discussion about the new bunker stuff. (I did search.)

 

Basically you can touch the sand with hand or club, as long as it's not right around your ball. You can't swipe sand away in your backswing.

 

You can remove loose impediments and movable obstructions.

 

But, "you get the general penalty if your actions in touching the sand improve the conditions affecting your stroke." I assume, but I'm not sure, that removing loose impediments is part of what they mean by "actions in touching the sand" even if you don't specifically touch the sand.

 

So, the nitty gritty : you have a small stone (say pea-sized) 1/2 inch behind your ball. It's half-buried. If you remove it, you're going to have a small crater there. Have you improved the conditions affecting your stroke?

 

What if the same stone is sitting gently on top of the sand in the same position and if you remove it, you know the sand will remain exactly as is? Is this legal?

 

What about a stone that is a couple inches target-side of your ball that won't affect your stroke, but might damage a club, or go flying off? What if that rock could potentially affect the ball flight, but not specifically "your stroke".

 

Just trying to clear up what we're allowing in bunkers right now.

[Mr. Bean]

As long as your actions are prudent and reasonable there is no breach. So when you move a pebble you are bound to move some grains of sand as well and there will be a crater. That is just fine, but if you exaggerate in moving that pebble and move more sand that is reasonable then you are in breach.

 

It is all about being reasonable.

 

'What about a stone that is a couple inches target-side of your ball that won't affect your stroke, but might damage a club, or go flying off? What if that rock could potentially affect the ball flight, but not specifically "your stroke".'

 

This I did not quite understand. It is up to you to remove that stone or leave it there.

[Sawgrass]

12.2a

 

a. Removing Loose Impediments and Movable Obstructions

 

Before playing a ball in a bunker, a player may remove loose impediments under Rule 15.1 and movable obstructions under Rule 15.2.

 

**This includes any reasonable touching or movement of the sand in the bunker that happens while doing so.**

[TheCityGame]

> @Sawgrass said:

> 12.2a

>

> a. Removing Loose Impediments and Movable Obstructions

>

> Before playing a ball in a bunker, a player may remove loose impediments under Rule 15.1 and movable obstructions under Rule 15.2.

>

> **This includes any reasonable touching or movement of the sand in the bunker that happens while doing so.**

 

Oh, I was trying to find that last part and realized that USGA has "Player's Edition" and "Full Rules" at the top. That language is not in the Player's Edition. Thanks.

 

12.2a/1 in the "interpretations" section addresses this, too. Re-learning how to read the rule book.

 

(we're also only 2 weeks into "official" golf season in Maryland, so I haven't faced these things in the course of actual play too much.)

[Sawgrass]

> @TheCityGame said:

> > @Sawgrass said:

> > 12.2a

> >

> > a. Removing Loose Impediments and Movable Obstructions

> >

> > Before playing a ball in a bunker, a player may remove loose impediments under Rule 15.1 and movable obstructions under Rule 15.2.

> >

> > **This includes any reasonable touching or movement of the sand in the bunker that happens while doing so.**

>

> Oh, I was trying to find that last part and realized that USGA has "Player's Edition" and "Full Rules" at the top. That language is not in the Player's Edition. Thanks.

>

> 12.2a/1 in the "interpretations" section addresses this, too. Re-learning how to read the rule book.

>

> (we're also only 2 weeks into "official" golf season in Maryland, so I haven't faced these things in the course of actual play too much.)

I must say that I've come to HATE the Player's Edition. Too many ways it can confuse or screw you up.

 

[SNIPERBBB]

Never understood why people would ever look at such a thing instead of the official rules.

[TheCityGame]

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> Never understood why people would ever look at such a thing instead of the official rules.

 

In MY case, I looked at it because the USGA website defaults to it.

 

I can see reasons not to like it (this thread being a case in point). I do like their interpretations page. At least the "interpretations page" is clearly NOT the rules. The Player's Edition, not so clearly.

[Sawgrass]

> @TheCityGame said:

> > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > Never understood why people would ever look at such a thing instead of the official rules.

>

> In MY case, I looked at it because the USGA website defaults to it.

>

> I can see reasons not to like it (this thread being a case in point). I do like their interpretations page. At least the "interpretations page" is clearly NOT the rules. The Player's Edition, not so clearly.

 

I like carrying the Player's Edition. I just don't like reading it! :/

[Imp]

You can D/L the USGA Rules Application to your phone. Has Players/Official/Decisions (To see them all other than just Players Edition, you have to go to Settings and turn Expert Mode to "on"). Or just go to the website (because it may take a while to D/L the latest version of the rules when you occasionally open it. Faster to just go to the site on the browser.

[KevCarter]

> @TheCityGame said:

> > @Sawgrass said:

> > 12.2a

> >

> > a. Removing Loose Impediments and Movable Obstructions

> >

> > Before playing a ball in a bunker, a player may remove loose impediments under Rule 15.1 and movable obstructions under Rule 15.2.

> >

> > This includes any reasonable touching or movement of the sand in the bunker that happens while doing so.

>

> Oh, I was trying to find that last part and realized that USGA has "Player's Edition" and "Full Rules" at the top. That language is not in the Player's Edition. Thanks.

>

> 12.2a/1 in the "interpretations" section addresses this, too. **Re-learning how to read the rule book.**

>

> (we're also only 2 weeks into "official" golf season in Maryland, so I haven't faced these things in the course of actual play too much.)

 

Me too!

 

Cheers

[sui generis]

I walk and carry, so the lightweight Player's Edition is in a pocket somewhere, mostly because those I play with would run me ragged if they knew I wasn't carrying the book. :) But like the rest of you, if I want a real answer, out comes the phone app.

[Sawgrass]

> @"sui generis" said:

> I walk and carry, so the lightweight Player's Edition is in a pocket somewhere, mostly because those I play with would run me ragged if they knew I wasn't carrying the book. :) But like the rest of you, if I want a real answer, out comes the phone app.

 

I'm with you, but I kind of hate taking a phone out of my bag on the course. Seems somehow disrespectful of the game, while taking a rulebook out seems the opposite. Maybe they'll make a new, fat edition of the ROG the same height and width as the Player's Editiion.

[Hawkeye77]

Darn, I thought this was people ragging on Sergio!

[antip]

> @Sawgrass said:

> > @TheCityGame said:

> > > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > > Never understood why people would ever look at such a thing instead of the official rules.

> >

> > In MY case, I looked at it because the USGA website defaults to it.

> >

> > I can see reasons not to like it (this thread being a case in point). I do like their interpretations page. At least the "interpretations page" is clearly NOT the rules. The Player's Edition, not so clearly.

>

> I like carrying the Player's Edition. I just don't like reading it! :/

 

I find it handy on the course for squashing bugs or wiping coffee spills, wouldn't consider reading it though.

[Imp]

> @Sawgrass said:

> > @"sui generis" said:

> > I walk and carry, so the lightweight Player's Edition is in a pocket somewhere, mostly because those I play with would run me ragged if they knew I wasn't carrying the book. :) But like the rest of you, if I want a real answer, out comes the phone app.

>

> I'm with you, but I kind of hate taking a phone out of my bag on the course. Seems somehow disrespectful of the game, while taking a rulebook out seems the opposite. Maybe they'll make a new, fat edition of the ROG the same height and width as the Player's Editiion.

 

I'd be surprised if the rules exist in paper form for long. I give it less than 10 years. The digital version is akin to the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, for Golf. That it has a "search" function is a very welcomed addition. Don't have to remember the section or rule, couple words (or just speak them).

[Mr. Bean]

So... three posts were on the subject and the rest were... well.... bull. Good job, guys!

[sui generis]

> @"Mr. Bean" said:

> So... three posts were on the subject and the rest were... well.... bull. Good job, guys!

 

Thread drift . . . is that a concept? Anyway, thread drift sometimes takes an ordinary topic and morphs it into an interesting discussion.

[Sawgrass]

> @"Mr. Bean" said:

> So... three posts were on the subject and the rest were... well.... bull. Good job, guys!

 

Oh my, I guess you like the Player's Edition and are upset at the criticism! Don't worry, I won't make fun of you for it. B)

 

(I need a better selection of, and larger, emojis.)

[antip]

> @"Mr. Bean" said:

> So... three posts were on the subject and the rest were... well.... bull. Good job, guys!

 

You can give a hungry man a fish or you can teach him to fish. After providing the fish we moved on to the latter.