True "Pot" Bunkers

[Matt J]

I would guess that the word "links" used to describe the land between the beach and the fields predates the use of that land for golf, but I don't know definitively. There are a lot of Links Roads in Scotland and I'm not guessing that they are named because they go past golf courses.

 

Anyways, it was never a huge qualification for the original question.... I don't care if it's "true links" if it plays hard and fast and the wind comes into play, then these types of pot bunkers could be utilized. Personally, the question backs up a theory, that Match Play is a more appropriate type of competition for all but the best players in which case more punitive hazards especially something like a pot bunker, which builds a ton of drama into the round unlike OB, are actually a lot more fun if all you can win/lose is a hole not the whole 4 day comp in one swing. After visiting Muirfield I think that's why it's such a popular social club (HCOEG) as they have a big party and draw their teams for alternate shot for the season. When you have a high / low pairing and switch off who hits the tee shot, the high handicap guy is going to occasionally find the hay or the pot bunker in which case the hole is pretty much lost unless the low index guy pulls off a miracle.

 

Carnoustie on the other hand, between all the blind shots over the water and the pot bunkers, I think it is a great match play course and also favors a lot of local knowledge which is probably great for their local inter-club matches. Makes a lot of sense that the guys and gals up in Angus would build a monster that they could learn and defend against visiting club players from Fife and East Lothian, et al.

 

It's a pretty simple theory, but it's basically that many of us tune in for 4 days of watching the best in the world every week and so we don't realize that that most stringent test is really not appropriate for less skilled players. Holding it together for one day of stroke is largely less enjoyable than firing at pins and "A" spots on the fairway only to occasionally miss and "spoil" your card or better yet simply lose a hole.

 

Also, it seems that even with the increase in maintenance of the sod faces, you can put far fewer bunkers that cover far less area and accomplish the same thing as the huge bunkers we're used to stateside. My guess is that into the future, this "firm and fast" isn't going away. It's much more cost effective, easier on maintenance and the environment, so even a lot of parkland courses are going to go to drier fairways. They could potentially save a lot of money by taking out huge bunkers and replacing them with smaller versions with bigger faces still allowing for some shot value for a recovery. As I used the term "true pot bunker" I would say you hit it into those and you're thrilled if you can actually advance the ball and don't have to play out backwards.

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

Found this interesting quote re pot bunkers, not sure how accurate but it's from a UK greens guy and probably is accurate as to original and a lot of pot bunkers, obviously not all bunkers on linksland are natural, as courses evolved and changed over time. "History has been long forgotten, a pot bunker was once formed by grazing sheep scraping out the ground to find shelter, and became an exposed area of sand and, ultimately, a hazard to be avoided." They really were something the game grew up around, but no doubt how the game was played factored into when and how additional bunkers were added or how they may have been modified when they became a "feature" perhaps.

 

[Big A HG]

> @scott_Donald said:

 

> Saturday I lucked out here, when someone didn't put the rake back in the bunker.

 

From my understanding, you're not supposed to leave rakes in the bunkers. The bunkers are a hazard and per the rules, you'd be penalized for removing the rake prior to playing your shot if it is in the hazard. Therefore, someone correctly left the rake out of the bunker. (Again, this is just my understanding)

[Hawkeye77]

> @"Big A HG" said:

> > @scott_Donald said:

>

> > Saturday I lucked out here, when someone didn't put the rake back in the bunker.

>

> From my understanding, you're not supposed to leave rakes in the bunkers. The bunkers are a hazard and per the rules, you'd be penalized for removing the rake prior to playing your shot if it is in the hazard. Therefore, someone correctly left the rake out of the bunker. (Again, this is just my understanding)

 

Nothing wrong with rakes being left in bunkers, or you placing one in there when playing your shot, if you don't violate a rule in the manner you place it.

[Argonne69]

No, you are not penalized for removing a rake from a bunker. Rule 12.2a allows one to remove loose impediments and movable obstructions from a bunker. A rake is a movable obstruction.

 

It's recommended that rakes be placed outside bunkers, but it's not a rule.

 

[tiderider]

rtj oxmoor leaves rakes in the bunker and it drives me absolutely wild with madness & rage ... not only will i get sand all over my hands since i play early morning, but it potentially stops the ball from trickling down to the bottom (we have very heavy sand) ... yes, i know, i should not hit it in the bunker ... STILL!

[Matt J]

I prefer out as you can move it or take relief if it's resting against it.

[scott_Donald]

> @"Big A HG" said:

> > @scott_Donald said:

>

> > Saturday I lucked out here, when someone didn't put the rake back in the bunker.

>

> From my understanding, you're not supposed to leave rakes in the bunkers. The bunkers are a hazard and per the rules, you'd be penalized for removing the rake prior to playing your shot if it is in the hazard. Therefore, someone correctly left the rake out of the bunker. (Again, this is just my understanding)

 

From what I seem to have gathered - UK rakes are left in. US left out to the side.

 

Every rake is in the bunker on my course, every rake I have seen in every US course I have played is out.

 

> @Argonne69 said:

> No, you are not penalized for removing a rake from a bunker. Rule 12.2a allows one to remove loose impediments and movable obstructions from a bunker. A rake is a movable obstruction.

>

> It's recommended that rakes be placed outside bunkers, but it's not a rule.

>

 

intersting raking without using the rake!

[MaxBuck]

Rakes are to be placed in the bunkers at my club. It's said to reduce the time required to mow.

 

It's not a popular policy among the members.

[Roadking2003]

> @"Matt J" said:

>

> Also, it seems that even with the increase in maintenance of the sod faces, you can put far fewer bunkers that cover far less area and accomplish the same thing as the huge bunkers we're used to stateside. My guess is that into the future, this "firm and fast" isn't going away. It's much more cost effective, easier on maintenance and the environment, so even a lot of parkland courses are going to go to drier fairways. They could potentially save a lot of money by taking out huge bunkers and replacing them with smaller versions with bigger faces still allowing for some shot value for a recovery. As I used the term "true pot bunker" I would say you hit it into those and you're thrilled if you can actually advance the ball and don't have to play out backwards.

>

To me, it's more about deciding how penal a slightly missed tee shot should be. Most of the time a fairway pot bunker is equal to a full shot penalty. On the other hand, most fairway bunkers only make your approach shot more difficult, so maybe a half shot penalty. One is not better than the other, just different objectives.

 

 

[Argonne69]

> @"Matt J" said:

> I prefer out as you can move it or take relief if it's resting against it.

 

It's the same in a bunker. If the ball is resting against the rake, the rake can be moved, and the ball replaced if it moves from its original spot (Rule 15.2a).

 

The only disadvantage of having the rake in the bunker is the possibility that it prevents the ball from rolling to the bottom of the bunker.

[scott_Donald]

> @Argonne69 said:

> > @"Matt J" said:

> > I prefer out as you can move it or take relief if it's resting against it.

>

> It's the same in a bunker. If the ball is resting against the rake, the rake can be moved, and the ball replaced if it moves from its original spot (Rule 15.2a).

>

> The only disadvantage of having the rake in the bunker is the possibility that it prevents the ball from rolling to the bottom of the bunker.

 

the rakes are supposed to be in the centre of the bunkers here. just in from playing and meant to get a pic of all the bunkers but forgot.

[James the Hogan Fan]

I played a course in Montana where the rakes were stored in a well in the ground. You used a foot or a club to press the lid and the rake sprung up so the head was about a foot up, and then you pulled it out. To replace it you pressed it down by foot and then closed the lid. Never seen it before or since but it was a blast to try the first time.

[raynorfan1]

> @"Matt J" said:

 

> Anyways, it was never a huge qualification for the original question.... I don't care if it's "true links" if it plays hard and fast and the wind comes into play, then these types of pot bunkers could be utilized. Personally, the question backs up a theory, that Match Play is a more appropriate type of competition for all but the best players in which case more punitive hazards especially something like a pot bunker, which builds a ton of drama into the round unlike OB, are actually a lot more fun if all you can win/lose is a hole not the whole 4 day comp in one swing. After visiting Muirfield I think that's why it's such a popular social club (HCOEG) as they have a big party and draw their teams for alternate shot for the season. When you have a high / low pairing and switch off who hits the tee shot, the high handicap guy is going to occasionally find the hay or the pot bunker in which case the hole is pretty much lost unless the low index guy pulls off a miracle.

 

I admire you for willing to advance a theory like this...

 

(if I sum it up, it's that pot bunkers are a UK phenomenon because they make more sense in match play, which is the common club format in the UK)

 

But I think you're wrong.

 

Match play is the preferred competitive format in all the old-line clubs in America, from Oakmont's SWAT to Winged Foot's Anderson and Pine Valley's Crump Cup, the big games at big clubs in America are match play competitions. And yet these clubs (which have been trend setters for thousands of others) have never favored pot bunkers.

 

IMHO the pot bunker is a links golf thing. If the course isn't playing firm and fast, they're just decorative - and we don't do much firm and fast on this side of the atlantic.

[PapaJohick]

> @az2au said:

> @"Matt J" I agree in a lot of ways. I've played more than half of the courses on that list and I've played several other courses that play linksy as well, including Sebonack. I don't think the designation matters all that much. The only thing I truly can't stand is courses that try to look like links but play soft. Those courses universally suck, are boring and are mostly easy.

 

That is accurate of a few courses around here in Charleston and in Florida where I’ve played. Links set up but plays soft so aerial game is still the go to

[Roadking2003]

Total bunk! Pot bunkers have nothing to do with match play and vice versa.

[BNGL]

Those original pot bunkers as someone said were just eroded away by livestock, I’ve always kind of thought (through my amateur golf designer lenses grant you, I don’t play Lake Nona Wednesday’s at lunch like some design aficionados) but that bunkers here were used mostly for aesthetic purposes. Obviously yes it is to present a challenge, but designers here will use bunkers to contrast with the green, and guide golfers around a course. A pot bunker while more challenging just wouldn’t fit in as well because it would not be seen.

 

That being said, I have built and installed them on a couple courses I have worked here in Florida and the membership loved it. We built one that was maybe the size of a couch and it was deep, I think we stacked it nearly a half pallet high it cane out really nice.

 

[Roadking2003]

> @scott_Donald said:>

> From what I seem to have gathered - UK rakes are left in. US left out to the side.

Not true. Many in the US are left in the bunker. The debate about in vs out is perpetual.