“Weird” question...no luck finding an answer on google...

[LeftDaddy]

This is going to seem like an odd question, and I suspect I already know what kind of answers I’ll get. But even if one of the “instructors” on here answers it for me, it will have been worth it.

 

To make it as simple as possible, I’ll ask the question first, then provide context for the question afterward.

 

So here goes: is it possible to still make solid contact and just play for the miss from underneath the plane? Or better yet, what adjustments might one make mid-round to best deal with too underneath / too in-to-out?

 

Now for the context. I’ve been reading a lot of mental game stuff lately. One of the things that most of the authors stress is that consistency is a bit of a false God / misnomer in golf. Apparently what you are really after is learning how to deal with inconsistency and still play decent golf. Plus, they all pretty much say that you can’t play well with “swing thought” golf (though I’m protesting that one a bit because Jack claims to have played with one swing thought in his rounds).

 

So here is my dilemma. My fault is getting underneath the plane, which leads to rope hooks and just brutal contact with the irons sometimes. In any given “normal” round, I’d say about 50-60% of my shots suffer from this fault. Sometimes I manage it...I just end up short of the green or right of it. Sometimes I don’t manage it. No matter how far left I aim, it goes way right and into trouble. I have about 5-10 swing adjustments that I can go through to “fix” it...sometimes I figure it out early enough to salvage a decent round. Sometimes I don’t. And I’m certainly doing range work to permanently remove the fault, but old habits die hard.

 

Anyway, if I’m to believe the mental game books I read, I’m not supposed to try to fix my fault with swing thoughts. I’m supposed to envision good shots and just execute, and on days when I don’t “have it”, I’m supposed to switch to a 3/4 swing or play around the miss or whatever. The problem with being underneath the plane, though, is that it can get so bad that nothing works. Not even 3/4 swings. Nor punch shots.

 

Im of the belief that you just can’t play golf from under the plane, and that I do need to work on swing thoughts. But the books suggest otherwise. So what is a brother to do?

[MonteScheinblum]

Yes it is...

 

Things like:

 

Ball back in stance

Aim left

More weight left at address

[Krt22]

As someone who is typically too under plane, you need to figure out how/why you get too under and find a go to fix to use on the course when it starts showing its ugly face . It just really isnt a playable miss and aiming more away form the target typically makes it worse. I would also say there isn't anything wrong with taking a swing though onto the course, as long as it's one thought. You see certain tour players (Rose, Fleetwood, Rickie, JT etc) that have exaggerated motions or check points during their PSR, they all say its to get a certain feeling prior to the shot.

[LeftDaddy]

> @MonteScheinblum said:

> Yes it is...

>

> Things like:

>

> Ball back in stance

> Aim left

> More weight left at address

 

Thanks Monte. Exactly what I was looking for. And by weight left and aim more left, do you mean right (since I’m a lefty)?

 

 

[LeftDaddy]

> @Krt22 said:

> As someone who is typically too under plane, you need to figure out how/why you get too under and find a go to fix to use on the course when it starts showing its ugly face . It just really isnt a playable miss and aiming more away form the target typically makes it worse. I would also say there isn't anything wrong with taking a swing though onto the course, as long as it's one thought. You see certain tour players (Rose, Fleetwood, Rickie, JT etc) that have exaggerated motions or check points during their PSR, they all say its to get a certain feeling prior to the shot.

 

Yes! You’ve described my thoughts on it as they stand today. I have a fix right now. What seems to cause me to go underneath is that I take it back outside and I get the club oddly too up and outside my hands. To compensate I loop down and inside.

 

My fixes are that I tend to do better with a stance that feels hunched over to me, and I have to take the club back in a way that feels way too inside, and then I have to think about keeping my right hand (top hand) low while lifting my left hand almost straight vertical. It sounds goofy but on camera looks like an on / above plane takeaway perfect for a two-planer.

 

Some variant of the above paragraph tends to work, along with a few other thoughts on the downswing/ at impact. Point is that I have a checklist of fixes, but sometimes it takes me too long to find the one that works that day.

 

Some days, though, it feels so bad standing over a ball. I can’t sole the club open enough, and I just know it is too closed (even though it is 5-10 degrees open). But I swing anyway because no way someone could rope hook a shot with an 8 iron 5-10 degrees open, right? Except me, of course...that is who can rope hook a wide open 8 iron! So I’m hoping some of these tips can help me get through a round on these type of days...to be a master of my variability so to speak.

[Golfjack]

I used to do this a lot. My longer clubs really did the rope hook (pretty amazed that they come back on target sometimes lol). You have to swing less from the inside. Try exaggerating the top of your back swing to be more arms upright. Try DJ style. Then work towards a middle ground. Of course I also did a bunch of other changes so not sure exactly what made it better. Maybe everything lol.. My biggest problem with the rope hook is that it's so hard to hold greens. My goal is still to hit high spinning iron shots which will hold the green (this is less an issue with shorter irons actually for me maybe because for shorter clubs we stand closer to the ball thus more upright swing plane). Longer clubs I still see that rope hook sometimes. Very annoying. Unless it's short and runs on the green.

BTW I don't think under the plane (as in dropping the hands on the downswing) is the same as having an overly inside out swing path.

[AFcelica]

> @LeftDaddy said:

> This is going to seem like an odd question, and I suspect I already know what kind of answers I’ll get. But even if one of the “instructors” on here answers it for me, it will have been worth it.

>

> To make it as simple as possible, I’ll ask the question first, then provide context for the question afterward.

>

> So here goes: is it possible to still make solid contact and just play for the miss from underneath the plane? Or better yet, what adjustments might one make mid-round to best deal with too underneath / too in-to-out?

>

> Now for the context. I’ve been reading a lot of mental game stuff lately. One of the things that most of the authors stress is that consistency is a bit of a false God / misnomer in golf. Apparently what you are really after is learning how to deal with inconsistency and still play decent golf. Plus, they all pretty much say that you can’t play well with “swing thought” golf (though I’m protesting that one a bit because Jack claims to have played with one swing thought in his rounds).

>

> So here is my dilemma. My fault is getting underneath the plane, which leads to rope hooks and just brutal contact with the irons sometimes. In any given “normal” round, I’d say about 50-60% of my shots suffer from this fault. Sometimes I manage it...I just end up short of the green or right of it. Sometimes I don’t manage it. No matter how far left I aim, it goes way right and into trouble. I have about 5-10 swing adjustments that I can go through to “fix” it...sometimes I figure it out early enough to salvage a decent round. Sometimes I don’t. And I’m certainly doing range work to permanently remove the fault, but old habits die hard.

>

> Anyway, if I’m to believe the mental game books I read, I’m not supposed to try to fix my fault with swing thoughts. I’m supposed to envision good shots and just execute, and on days when I don’t “have it”, I’m supposed to switch to a 3/4 swing or play around the miss or whatever. The problem with being underneath the plane, though, is that it can get so bad that nothing works. Not even 3/4 swings. Nor punch shots.

>

> Im of the belief that you just can’t play golf from under the plane, and that I do need to work on swing thoughts. But the books suggest otherwise. So what is a brother to do?

 

Back in high school my buddy used to break 80 occasionally hitting a 50 yard hook, couldn't hit any iron higher than 7, but he hit it 220 and about 50ft in the air, only hit driver 260 haha

[LeftDaddy]

I could live with the rope hook if that was all it was. It also becomes a pull, smother hook. Or worse, I barely make contact with any part of the clubface and I hit these little ground ball pull hooks that either find hazards or end up short and right of every green I aim for. It honestly feels worse than a shank. And the bigger problem might be with the driver. At least with it I can find the clubface (because it is teed up), but that makes it worse because the result is a screaming low hook that starts right and goes way right. So obviously I have a few faults I’m dealing with (occasional pulls and under the plane). My hip action is weird. I can move my hips no problem, and after impact I’ll have rotated pretty far. But at impact, my hips are “flat”...they are back where they were at setup. I’ve worked HARD on this fault and tried every drill I’ve found on WRX, Google, etc. But none of it seems to have worked for me. I think it could be “mental”, in the sense that when I exaggerate the move of keeping the club back while I rotate my hips, it feels powerless and usually results in a cold top block. So something in my timing isn’t right with it, but I think that is because I’ve hit from a “neutral “ hip position for so long that my brain only knows that one way.

 

Anyway, not necessarily asking for swing advice here as I’m mostly striking the ball well right now with the adjustments I mentioned above. I’m more concerned with learning how to play with the fault at the moment when it starts to act up. My swing isn’t as bad as I’m making it sound. I don’t think... ?

[Krt22]

I would agree with the above about the path. Have you tried to find a fix that helps neutralize the path vs a fix where you are compensating with the face? If you know your issue is rerouting back inside then the feel might be just the opposite. When I boomerang a 7i OB, the next shot I will take 1 more club and try to cut it, just keep my hands as high and close to the target line as possible and chop down on it. It usually goes dead straight. Not sure why I don't default to this feel.

[wybrh]

For whatever it's worth, I don't think this is a weird or odd question at all. I think it's great question.

[LeftDaddy]

> @Krt22 said:

> I would agree with the above about the path. Have you tried to find a fix that helps neutralize the path vs a fix where you are compensating with the face? If you know your issue is rerouting back inside then the feel might be just the opposite. When I boomerang a 7i OB, the next shot I will take 1 more club and try to cut it, just keep my hands as high and close to the target line as possible and chop down on it. It usually goes dead straight. Not sure why I don't default to this feel.

 

Yes, for the better part of two years I have worked on fixing the path rather than compensating in some way. I’ve actually mostly sent it into remission. It doesn’t look nearly as bad as it did two years ago. And I’ve had periods of the best ballstriking I’ve ever had during that two year span, so at the very least I’ve been able to find some good answers for it, at least for a time period. Like I said above, I have to reroute my backswing to be more inside and steep to allow me to come down more “outside” and shallow. I used to think that I had this weird dropping of my hands and if I could only stop dropping my hands, I’d be good. I’ve since learned that the dropping of the hands was just my mind compensating for a poor backswing path / position. I don’t drop the hands so much anymore.

 

But, the tendency to get underneath the plane is still there, especially if I get into the wrong backswing positions. And I really think that this fault, coupled with neutral hips at impact, exacerbates the hook and the poor contact because I get stuck and I’m releasing too early because my hands are already “past” the ball.

 

Currently (knock on wood) my swing is in a decent place overall, and I feel confident over the ball again, etc. Because the competition season is starting, im trying to focus on mental game stuff more to maximize my current performance. Thus, the books suggest that I shouldn’t tinker with the swing on the course...I should just manage the variability. So I started this thread to see if folks had suggestions of ways to play around this particular fault, and to be completely honest I’m protesting some of the mental game advice a little bit. I am incapable, right now, of hitting good golf shots without at least some semblance of a swing thought. And all of my best rounds have come on days when I had a simple swing thought that was working. So I figure I will modify the mental game advice to work best for me and just work with one simple swing thought combined with some “fixes” per this thread where I can get it around a little bit even if I don’t totally “have it” that day.

 

[BB28403]

I would think the 2 ball drill would help you.

Setup 2 balls, one in the normal place. Then another 2 inches further out. Setup to ball 1 and try to hit ball 2. It will make you go OTT and help remove that under plane out of your swing.

 

Eventually you remove the extra ball and just use the “feels” you learn. Move the ball around till it hits target.

 

And the mental stuff, yep it totally works. Just think to yourself “where do I want to hit this ball?” “Blue Flag”. And swing.

I usually can hit it if things are firing well, it’s harder on the course. Cuz it “matters” or some BS. Just tell yourself it is a practice round.

[LeftDaddy]

> @BB28403 said:

> I would think the 2 ball drill would help you.

> Setup 2 balls, one in the normal place. Then another 2 inches further out. Setup to ball 1 and try to hit ball 2. It will make you go OTT and help remove that under plane out of your swing.

>

> Eventually you remove the extra ball and just use the “feels” you learn. Move the ball around till it hits target.

 

I like it.

 

I’ve tried the Vijay Singh drill where I stick a shaft or water bottle or some sort of obstacle between my back foot and the ball and the path. The problem I’ve found with those drills is that they only work for the time that the obstacle is in place, and they sorta fix the symptoms but not the cause. I have this “swing gate” path trainer that does a similar thing. I hit with it for months during the fall / winter. It did help some, but soon after I removed it, I started taking the wrong backswing path again. It did help because it works on both the backswing and downswing, and when I use it now I basically never hit the little obstacles (so I have mitigated the problem somewhat). But when I’m on the course, I need to understand what causes me to do it and figure out how to stop it or play around it.

 

I do like your two-ball concept though. May use that as a range trick prior to my rounds. Thanks!

 

 

[BB28403]

> @LeftDaddy said:

> > @BB28403 said:

> > I would think the 2 ball drill would help you.

> > Setup 2 balls, one in the normal place. Then another 2 inches further out. Setup to ball 1 and try to hit ball 2. It will make you go OTT and help remove that under plane out of your swing.

> >

> > Eventually you remove the extra ball and just use the “feels” you learn. Move the ball around till it hits target.

>

> I like it.

>

> I’ve tried the Vijay Singh drill where I stick a shaft or water bottle or some sort of obstacle between my back foot and the ball and the path. The problem I’ve found with those drills is that they only work for the time that the obstacle is in place, and they sorta fix the symptoms but not the cause. I have this “swing gate” path trainer that does a similar thing. I hit with it for months during the fall / winter. It did help some, but soon after I removed it, I started taking the wrong backswing path again. It did help because it works on both the backswing and downswing, and when I use it now I basically never hit the little obstacles (so I have mitigated the problem somewhat). But when I’m on the course, I need to understand what causes me to do it and figure out how to stop it or play around it.

>

> I do like your two-ball concept though. May use that as a range trick prior to my rounds. Thanks!

>

>

Sure thing! My PGA coach had me do it.

If you reverse the process you can cure OTT

Setup to the outside ball and try to hit the inside ball. I had OTT issues

 

[MonteScheinblum]

Yes, more right if you’re a lefty.

[mikpga]

Aim more left, play for the push....

 

May have to tinker with ball position...