Jason and Stevie

[Hawkeye77]

It's all fun and games until the caddie doesn't have you hitting the right club at a critical moment in the Open Championship.

[cardoustie]

Certain players / personality types would benefit from a caddie like Steve W

JDay, to me anyways, doesn't seem to be positive or hard enough. An alpha like Stevie could be beneficial

[DFS PFD]

Did Phil Jackson win all of those championships? Probably could've put anyone as coach, call me when his name is on the check! Coach K who???

[Vindog]

> @idrive said:

> > @Vindog said:

> > I know Stevie is an easy target because of...well, because of who he is, and his mouth.

> >

> > But I'll be damned if this stuff isn't coincidental. Whether it is just perceived personal confidence, or actual on course improvement it works. Nobody can refute that it works.

> > Nobody.

> >

> >

>

> I can. JDay just finished 7 shots off the lead.

> He hasn't won with Steveo on the bag.

> Unless he wins nobody can say his on course game has improved.

> Nobody.

>

> Edit: Including Adam Scott

 

Hater! /kidding

 

But seriously I know you're not saying that wins are the only measure of on course improvement. Nobody actually believes that, right?

[rafal]

Ernie Els approves.

[Steele47]

That would be a great Leer Jet fight. Ernie vs Stevie.

[dalehead]

If Stevie can get Jason on the right track I’ll give him his due. Until then I’ll continue to believe it’s easy to build a reputation as a great caddy when you’ve toted the bags of players like Ray Floyd, Greg Norman, and Tiger Woods.

[OldTomMorris]

> @Vindog said:

> > @idrive said:

> > > @Vindog said:

> > > I know Stevie is an easy target because of...well, because of who he is, and his mouth.

> > >

> > > But I'll be damned if this stuff isn't coincidental. Whether it is just perceived personal confidence, or actual on course improvement it works. Nobody can refute that it works.

> > > Nobody.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I can. JDay just finished 7 shots off the lead.

> > He hasn't won with Steveo on the bag.

> > Unless he wins nobody can say his on course game has improved.

> > Nobody.

> >

> > Edit: Including Adam Scott

>

> Hater! /kidding

>

> But seriously I know you're not saying that wins are the only measure of on course improvement. Nobody actually believes that, right?

 

Looking at Day's results it's the only thing missing, plenty of good finishes prior to the caddy switch, so in this case what other metric do you measure improvement by?

[Vindog]

> @dalehead said:

> If Stevie can get Jason on the right track I’ll give him his due. Until then I’ll continue to believe it’s easy to build a reputation as a great caddy when you’ve toted the bags of players like Ray Floyd, Greg Norman, and Tiger Woods.

 

Is it possible that he toted those bags because he had a reputation as a good, then great caddy?

 

Just playing devils advocate here. I have no allegiance to Steve or really care for that matter.

[Ignatius Reilly]

> @Vindog said:

> > @dalehead said:

> > If Stevie can get Jason on the right track I’ll give him his due. Until then I’ll continue to believe it’s easy to build a reputation as a great caddy when you’ve toted the bags of players like Ray Floyd, Greg Norman, and Tiger Woods.

>

> Is it possible that he toted those bags because he had a reputation as a good, then great caddy?

>

> Just playing devils advocate here. I have no allegiance to Steve or really care for that matter.

 

You can certainly look at it either way, but I'm in the group that thinks Floyd, Norman and Woods each had a ton of choices of caddy, and they all chose Stevie. So..... either they don't know much about golf and winning or..... he's actually really good.

 

IF you'd never seen Tiger and Stevie talking about shots, then sure, he's just a porter. But we did see it, and we saw it a lot.

[idrive]

Are there any Players that don't talk about shots with their caddies at the very least just on occasion?

[Barfolomew]

> @rafal said:

> Multiple posts without Stevie bashing. Surprised!

> Oh, also, no "caddies don't matter" posts yet. Must be early.

 

Yeah because that comment is completely wrong

 

What they mean to say is "....caddies shouldn't matter" Gimme the yardage and fetch me a bottle of water laddy....

[MilkyButterCuts]

> @golfandfishing said:

> 2 straight events without a mention of an injury or illness. Maybe Steve Williams influenced him to man up a bit too.

 

 

[physasst]

> @"DFS PFD" said:

> Did Phil Jackson win all of those championships? Probably could've put anyone as coach, call me when his name is on the check! Coach K who???

This, same with Belichick. I mean, he didn't throw a touchdown pass right? He didn't actually play....he didn't really have much to do with creating a dynasty and winning 8 superbowl titles, 6 with the Patriots, right? Gimme a break. Some players like Nicklaus and Woods, needed minimal involvement from their caddy, others, many others, need more. It's more of a team sport now than ever with nutritionists, therapists, chiropractors, strength and fitness trainers, swing coaches, putting coaches, mental coaching, etc., etc. These players literally have teams that they work with.

 

[gonzo350z]

What are you guys talking about ? Denying the importance of a good caddie is ignorant. Stevie is a great caddie ,Jason can only benefit from this . Talking about they don't hit a shot is stupid . Same thing when somebody tried to say bellichick isn't the reason for the teams success. I say he's 40 percent the reason . Same with tiger and Stevie as a team / I give 75 to 80 percent to tiger and 20 percent to 25 percent to Steve . Let's not forget what a crowd controller Stevie was for tiger . Keeping people from getting to close or removing idiots ECT... Caddies matter , ask Brooks how important his guy is to him , there are certain guys out there that make a huge difference . Stevie is one of those .

[MountainGoat]

I started this thread because I don't think Stevie got lured out of retirement to just haul a bag. I think he was actively recruited to provide a level of motivation and strategic guidance that we don't normally associate with caddies. Jason has previously admitted that he comes up short in the motivation department, and he was never a great strategist. Just hit the ball high and far, that was it. So, this pairing is real interesting to me. Stevie isn't a swing mechanic like Colin Swatton would have been, but he's not just a mule either. This is a whole new job.

[dalehead]

> @"Ignatius Reilly" said:

> > @Vindog said:

> > > @dalehead said:

> > > If Stevie can get Jason on the right track I’ll give him his due. Until then I’ll continue to believe it’s easy to build a reputation as a great caddy when you’ve toted the bags of players like Ray Floyd, Greg Norman, and Tiger Woods.

> >

> > Is it possible that he toted those bags because he had a reputation as a good, then great caddy?

> >

> > Just playing devils advocate here. I have no allegiance to Steve or really care for that matter.

>

> You can certainly look at it either way, but I'm in the group that thinks Floyd, Norman and Woods each had a ton of choices of caddy, and they all chose Stevie. So..... either they don't know much about golf and winning or..... he's actually really good.

>

> IF you'd never seen Tiger and Stevie talking about shots, then sure, he's just a porter. But we did see it, and we saw it a lot.

 

Maybe he is a really good caddie. My point is it's hard to tell because of the quality of the players he caddied for. If he can help the basket case that is Jason Day I'll be convinced.

 

Remember Angelo Argea? He was Jack's caddy in his prime. Everyone thought he must be a great caddy. He was asked for almost as many autographs as Jack. Turns out he was a good bag toter who didn't get in Jack's way.

[buckeyefl]

> @dalehead said:

> > @"Ignatius Reilly" said:

> > > @Vindog said:

> > > > @dalehead said:

> > > > If Stevie can get Jason on the right track I’ll give him his due. Until then I’ll continue to believe it’s easy to build a reputation as a great caddy when you’ve toted the bags of players like Ray Floyd, Greg Norman, and Tiger Woods.

> > >

> > > Is it possible that he toted those bags because he had a reputation as a good, then great caddy?

> > >

> > > Just playing devils advocate here. I have no allegiance to Steve or really care for that matter.

> >

> > You can certainly look at it either way, but I'm in the group that thinks Floyd, Norman and Woods each had a ton of choices of caddy, and they all chose Stevie. So..... either they don't know much about golf and winning or..... he's actually really good.

> >

> > IF you'd never seen Tiger and Stevie talking about shots, then sure, he's just a porter. But we did see it, and we saw it a lot.

>

> Maybe he is a really good caddie. My point is it's hard to tell because of the quality of the players he caddied for. If he can help the basket case that is Jason Day I'll be convinced.

>

> Remember Angelo Argea? He was Jack's caddy in his prime. Everyone thought he must be a great caddy. He was asked for almost as many autographs as Jack. Turns out he was a good bag toter who didn't get in Jack's way.

 

Maybe?

 

You think those quality players picked him at random and not because of how good he was at his job? Maybe.

[MountainGoat]

The role of the modern caddie has evolved well past that played by Angelo Argea and his peers.

[Robabera]

Booby Jones was right, golf is played between the ears and more so when you get to the highest level. That is why Tiger was so good, and now isn’t Yet. I think SW tried to help Adam Scott and saw that It was hopeless, but now thinks JD has the potential to get back to the top. Sure SW’s motivation is probably part missing the limelight (ego) and part feeling he needs to prove his value, and part wanting to help. Willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. You read JD’s life story and read his various interviews and it appears to me he is still a work in progress upstairs. Could be that SW will help him get better. Many need crutches at some stages of our development until we can stand alone.

[Ignatius Reilly]

> @Robabera said:

> Booby Jones was right, golf is played between the ears and more so when you get to the highest level. That is why Tiger was so good, and now isn’t Yet. I think SW tried to help Adam Scott and saw that It was hopeless, but now thinks JD has the potential to get back to the top. Sure SW’s motivation is probably part missing the limelight (ego) and part feeling he needs to prove his value, and part wanting to help. Willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. You read JD’s life story and read his various interviews and it appears to me he is still a work in progress upstairs. Could be that SW will help him get better. Many need crutches at some stages of our development until we can stand alone.

 

SW has plenty of ego, that's undeniable. I don't think he feels he needs to prove his value, not at all. First, he's already done that and second, that's not the attitude of a guy with a big ego.

 

Your comment about JD maybe needing crutches until he can stand alone. W.T.F?

 

With a dozen wins on Tour, a major and a year at OWGR #1.... I think he's already stood alone just fine. What SW might be able to do is to **help** him to regain his form. Kinda like Belichick **helps** Tom Brady to win. "Crutches", ugh.

 

Given all his problems with his back, that just may not be possible. Back's don't really listen very well.

[OldTomMorris]

I accept the caddy fulfils an important role but to suggest that a caddy contributed 20-25% of Tiger's success, for me that's a no way.

[wkuo3]

It'll be interesting to see how long the honeymoon will last between the injured warrior and the tired steed. My guess is two seasons if it last that long.

[Babydaddy]

> @MountainGoat said:

> I started this thread because I don't think Stevie got lured out of retirement to just haul a bag. I think he was actively recruited to provide a level of motivation and strategic guidance that we don't normally associate with caddies. Jason has previously admitted that he comes up short in the motivation department, and he was never a great strategist. Just hit the ball high and far, that was it. So, this pairing is real interesting to me. Stevie isn't a swing mechanic like Colin Swatton would have been, but he's not just a mule either. This is a whole new job.

This is the deal for sure.

The golfer's ego is fragile- like Spieth, Day has a lot of talent and is also fragile at the same time. Day's get out of jail free card is injury. Spieth's is Grellar, or conditions, or whatever. They have to externalize or they will lose confidence.

This is in complete opposition to the way the older guys like Ray Floyd who burned inside and blamed no one or thing-

Day needs more of that, and who better to get that from than the person that is allowed to be with you every shot in a tournament.

Personally, I think there will be a resurgence of this old-school mentality of it's me an Jack Daniels before it's all said and done. This thing where everyone has an entourage is silly- and in some ways counterproductive.

[c7015]

> @wkuo3 said:

> It'll be interesting to see how long the honeymoon will last between the injured warrior and the tired steed. My guess is two seasons if it last that long.

 

If Jason does not win by The Masters Steve is gone

 

Steve will never tarnish his rep as a winner, I'm sure he is a great caddy but let's be honest lucky to be along for the ride with Tiger.

[dcfas]

Jason Day is an amazing talent with injuries. Having SW join his team is worth a try. Some posters above have noted how the caddie has “evolved” in recent years. I have no doubt that for many players their caddies are critical to their successes. To JDay: Good thoughts, good words, good deeds. Would love to see him healthy and winning soon.

[buckeyefl]

> @c7015 said:

> > @wkuo3 said:

> > It'll be interesting to see how long the honeymoon will last between the injured warrior and the tired steed. My guess is two seasons if it last that long.

>

> If Jason does not win by The Masters Steve is gone

>

> Steve will never tarnish his rep as a winner, I'm sure he is a great caddy but let's be honest lucky to be along for the ride with Tiger.

 

Just to be clear, he didn't get the job because of luck.

[wkuo3]

> @buckeyefl said:

> > @c7015 said:

> > > @wkuo3 said:

> > > It'll be interesting to see how long the honeymoon will last between the injured warrior and the tired steed. My guess is two seasons if it last that long.

> >

> > If Jason does not win by The Masters Steve is gone

> >

> > Steve will never tarnish his rep as a winner, I'm sure he is a great caddy but let's be honest lucky to be along for the ride with Tiger.

>

> Just to be clear, he didn't get the job because of luck.

 

Of course !

But when a formula ONE won a race, was that the driver ? Or the pit crew and the mechanics and the machine itself plus the sponsors ?

He is but par of the formula. However, he believes and want others to believe that he is the major reason why golfer had success on the golf course. partial truth is not the whole truth and everyone knows. He is being used as a miracle maker, a rain maker. We'll see if he could live up to that expectation.

[lowheel]

> @c7015 said:

> > @wkuo3 said:

> > It'll be interesting to see how long the honeymoon will last between the injured warrior and the tired steed. My guess is two seasons if it last that long.

>

> If Jason does not win by The Masters Steve is gone

>

> Steve will never tarnish his rep as a winner, I'm sure he is a great caddy but let's be honest lucky to be along for the ride with Tiger.

 

His rep isnt of a winner though... its of a word we cant say here. im surprised his head fits through the doorway with the way he talks.

[bigred90gt]

Ol’ Stevie may be changing his ways, softening up a bit with age if you will. I actually watched him b-line for the bunker yesterday and rake it after Matsuyama hit out of it. No one asked him, and matsuyama’s caddie didn’t seem to be doing anything. Stevie just took it upon himself. I don’t recall ever seeing him do that in the past.