Where are all the 2 woods?

[Pepperturbo]

> @Myherobobhope said:

> > @Pepperturbo said:

> > > @Myherobobhope said:

> > > > @Pepperturbo said:

> > > > OEM's quit making 2 wood drivers (12'-14') opting to make 12'-14' strong 3 wood's instead, which took off on tour.

> > >

> > > Yeah, it's a weird niche. I haven't loved the new fairway woods i've tried, but have a Hogan in route... will be curious to see if it scratches this particular itch.

> >

> > Yep weird... Except for Phil.M, tour pros haven't used 2 wood drivers in years. If I recall Callaway makes them. But if nobody wants it on tour OEM's figure consumers won't buy them. Titleist makes a TS2 even old 917D2 in 12* loft. Using sleeve adjustment and keeping the head off the ground and square, I think it could be as much as 14*. Only it's not a small head.

>

> I've contemplated this route... buy a popular head in 12 degrees or so and then grab a 3 wood shaft for it... It's not a bad strategy.

>

> The original one by TM basically fits the bill of what I'm looking for... I didn't love it when I demoed it, but didn't get to hit it outside. I think TEE makes something in line with a 2 wood. There are some options... some obscure, some older but popular.

>

> I'm not spending money on this particular experiment this year, and my revisit next year and see if there are some added options.

>

> I do find it interesting that there aren't many 300cc clubs on the market... It makes me wonder why bigger three woods aren't more popular. Maybe it's just an overall sizing issue... I don't know!

 

As I see it, we have 460cc driver heads because average Joe golfer struggles to hit small-headed drivers and wants forgiveness because he's too lazy to practice or take lessons. The reason irons heads have gotten larger, stronger lofts and more forgiving.

 

Titleist made a smaller UI head for the tour and better Ams and a larger more forgiving UI head for average Joe. Trying to get joe golfer to snuggle up to a 300cc driver head would be fruitless, as that size has limited forgiveness.

[dwboston]

In my younger days I had a steel-shafted Callaway Warbird 2-wood that I used as a driver and off the deck at times - that club was an absolute cannon. The head got damaged when my bag fell off a cart and I couldn't find a replacement at the time.

 

Recently I've gone back to a Titleist 915 D2 12* head that I bought as an experiment (and for a song) a few years ago. For whatever reason I can hit this head more consistently near the center of the face than any driver I've ever owned. I've got a GD AD TP-6S shaft in it playing at 44" and it's really good. When I bought it I was willing to give up a few yards for more fairways, but when my swing is working I can get it out there pretty well. During a tournament recently I was made fun of when another player saw I was playing a 12* "driver" - I was asked if "it's even a driver at that point?" I don't care if it's a driver or 2-wood if I keep hitting it well.

[Myherobobhope]

> @Pepperturbo said:

> > @Myherobobhope said:

> > > @Pepperturbo said:

> > > > @Myherobobhope said:

> > > > > @Pepperturbo said:

> > > > > OEM's quit making 2 wood drivers (12'-14') opting to make 12'-14' strong 3 wood's instead, which took off on tour.

> > > >

> > > > Yeah, it's a weird niche. I haven't loved the new fairway woods i've tried, but have a Hogan in route... will be curious to see if it scratches this particular itch.

> > >

> > > Yep weird... Except for Phil.M, tour pros haven't used 2 wood drivers in years. If I recall Callaway makes them. But if nobody wants it on tour OEM's figure consumers won't buy them. Titleist makes a TS2 even old 917D2 in 12* loft. Using sleeve adjustment and keeping the head off the ground and square, I think it could be as much as 14*. Only it's not a small head.

> >

> > I've contemplated this route... buy a popular head in 12 degrees or so and then grab a 3 wood shaft for it... It's not a bad strategy.

> >

> > The original one by TM basically fits the bill of what I'm looking for... I didn't love it when I demoed it, but didn't get to hit it outside. I think TEE makes something in line with a 2 wood. There are some options... some obscure, some older but popular.

> >

> > I'm not spending money on this particular experiment this year, and my revisit next year and see if there are some added options.

> >

> > I do find it interesting that there aren't many 300cc clubs on the market... It makes me wonder why bigger three woods aren't more popular. Maybe it's just an overall sizing issue... I don't know!

>

> As I see it, we have 460cc driver heads because average Joe golfer struggles to hit small-headed drivers and wants forgiveness because he's too lazy to practice or take lessons. The reason irons heads have gotten larger, stronger lofts and more forgiving.

>

> Titleist made a smaller UI head for the tour and better Ams and a larger more forgiving UI head for average Joe. Trying to get joe golfer to snuggle up to a 300cc driver head would be fruitless, as that size has limited forgiveness.

 

I agree with everything here... I am just saying it's odd they haven't made a bigger three wood head, but maybe turf interaction demands a certain size... Calloway has the 3 deep, so I guess it's been tried and didn't sell! Oh well.

[JAMH03]

> @Mike_C said:

> > @dcopp7 said:

> > > @Mike_C said:

> >

> > >

> > > I like to use Bluegolf for this sort of thing. Here is my home course.

> > >

> > > https://course.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/course/course/hollytreecctx/holemap.htm?next=overview.htm

> >

> > how do you get to the map view like this ^^^ on that site? My home course is Saginaw Valley Public in Bay City MI

>

> I think you can add it yourself. You have to create an account, but that is free. This page would show you how.

> https://course.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/course/course/saginawvalleypublicg/tour.htm

 

I signed up logged in and can't see where to add a course?

[Foxx]

I'd love to see an actual 2 Wood. A 230cc head.

Not the bigger headed mini drivers, or cranked down lofts on the 3 wood heads we have to make do with.

 

 

Edited January 9 by Foxx

[Shoegolf]

On 9/11/2019 at 12:15 PM, dwboston said:

In my younger days I had a steel-shafted Callaway Warbird 2-wood that I used as a driver and off the deck at times - that club was an absolute cannon. The head got damaged when my bag fell off a cart and I couldn't find a replacement at the time.

 

Recently I've gone back to a Titleist 915 D2 12* head that I bought as an experiment (and for a song) a few years ago. For whatever reason I can hit this head more consistently near the center of the face than any driver I've ever owned. I've got a GD AD TP-6S shaft in it playing at 44" and it's really good. When I bought it I was willing to give up a few yards for more fairways, but when my swing is working I can get it out there pretty well. During a tournament recently I was made fun of when another player saw I was playing a 12* "driver" - I was asked if "it's even a driver at that point?" I don't care if it's a driver or 2-wood if I keep hitting it well.

Same, went 2 wood, 4 wood in those and teed the 2 wood back and lower so I could hit down on it. Probably the best I’ve ever driven the ball 

[solarbear88]

Still have a HiBore 2 Wood. Won't get rid of it.  TBH I think Cleveland is kinda dumb.  Whack a composite crown on it to change the sound and release it again.  Being shorter and a little smaller it is the club more people need.

[Lemonde]

The upcoming 280cc GT280 mini driver from Titleist is as small as you are going to get. 

[hook_or_slice]

On 9/11/2019 at 1:03 PM, Pepperturbo said:

......

 

As I see it, we have 460cc driver heads because average Joe golfer struggles to hit small-headed drivers and wants forgiveness because he's too lazy to practice or take lessons. .....

 

Every tour pro and top amateur golfer is playing a 460cc or close to it driver.

More important than forgiveness is increased distance because you can swing harder.

[lefthack]

I guess I always considered the mini driver as a 2 wood. 

[Pepperturbo]

14 hours ago, hook_or_slice said:

 

Every tour pro and top amateur golfer is playing a 460cc or close to it driver.

More important than forgiveness is increased distance because you can swing harder.

I understand that. 

 

Years back when the 400cc Titleist 905S was introduced on tour and retail, I played it with a Grafalloy Blue S fully inserted at near XX flex.  The smaller head flew as far as I would later hit a 460cc head.  The 460 is all about forgiveness.  Back then I hit itsy bitsy persimmon over 250.  Back then I was a 2 index, physically, much stronger, so played a stiffer shaft in the smaller head, didn't swing any harder.

[BirdieBob]

I have a TM Rocket Stealth 2 Pus, 12.8* TI two wood.  Works very well off the deck as well as the tee at 170cc.

 

[Foxx]

I agree. We need a modern day 250cc 2 wood. At that size it makes it a versatile tee AND fairway club.

 

The mini drivers are 280-340cc. Which is not as versatile as it should be. They are more a tee club, and harder to hit off the deck than they should be.

 

They hit the ball almost as far as a full size driver for a lot of golfers, which isn't ideal either.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 24 by Foxx

[GoldenAges]

I used to play persimmon 2w off the tee in my youth. The 2w was always close to 3w in size, yet visibly larger and with a much deeper face. 

 

In todays landscape with 180cc 3 woods and 460cc drivers I would think anywhere from 200cc to 280cc? with a deep face would put it in a traditional 2w size comparatively, while those 300-380cc are proportionally much larger on scale than a traditional 2w, giving rise to the new category of 'mini driver'. Of course, manufacturers can name them whatever they want for marketing purposes. Manufacturers do seem to be wary of the 2 wood designation. A lot of the 'rocket' 3 woods are more like 2 woods.

[Foxx]

On 1/24/2025 at 9:52 PM, GoldenAges said:

I used to play persimmon 2w off the tee in my youth. The 2w was always close to 3w in size, yet visibly larger and with a much deeper face. 

 

In todays landscape with 180cc 3 woods and 460cc drivers I would think anywhere from 200cc to 280cc? with a deep face would put it in a traditional 2w size comparatively, while those 300-380cc are proportionally much larger on scale than a traditional 2w, giving rise to the new category of 'mini driver'. Of course, manufacturers can name them whatever they want for marketing purposes. Manufacturers do seem to be wary of the 2 wood designation. A lot of the 'rocket' 3 woods are more like 2 woods.

 

I think you are right, manufacturers don't want to make a traditional 2 wood. It's bizarre because they have the technology these days to make a successful club. There would be no issues with launch and forgiveness with a 230cc head.

 

I suppose the sales would be greater with the 3 woods and mini's.

 

 

 

Edited February 17 by Foxx

[B_of_H]

3 hours ago, Foxx said:

 

I think you are right, manufacturers don't want to make a traditional 2 wood. It's bizarre because they have the technology these days to make a successful club. There would be no issues with launch and forgiveness with a 250cc head.

 

I suppose the sales would be greater with the 3 woods and mini's.

 

 

 

 

I think a lot of everyday golfers would love a 270cc to 300cc head with 15 degrees loft and a 43.5" shaft.  The head would need to be more forgiving and a more shallow face than current Mini driver offerings.   I think overall OEM's are weary of making niche market clubs and probably don't think the market is big enough for the cost and effort.  The trick would be convincing people who love the mini driver but don't realize how inconsistent they are with it vs a club designed more for their needs.  A lot of people hit the mini well a few times and love how far it goes vs a 3 wood but the penalty for misses is probably less than ideal if we are looking at data and performance over time. 

[Fish mojo]

I just received my PXG Secret Weapon 13* “driver”. Did a quick range session today and quite pleased with the result. Typically, I’m a big bomber off the tee with my TSR3 driver, but in jail more than I like. I’m hitting the Secret Weapon very accurate and only losing about 10% on distance. Yes, I can hit it off the deck, but need some actual shots on the course to prove it’s worth.

I’m going to bag the big dog next round and see what happens. I think my score will improve.

[ColinKelvin]

When I was a teenager this was my longest club off the tee.  I miss it (or at least, the way I used to hit it 30 years ago)

 

[Mike_C]

On 1/26/2025 at 5:41 AM, ColinKelvin said:

When I was a teenager this was my longest club off the tee.  I miss it (or at least, the way I used to hit it 30 years ago)

 

 

I had a 13 degree tour spoon in my bag for about 15 years as my 3 wood, had a titanium shaft.  I used to kill that thing....