Your most unpopular Golf opinions?

[Golfbit2X]

6 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

He posted and "unpopular golf opinion", didn't he ?  

 

Frankly, this is the most confusing title/thread I've ever seen. I never know whether someone is posting THEIR opinion, one that they suspect will be considered unpopular, or posting something that happened that THEY hate. 

I guess it wasn't obvious that it was an actual experience that I based my opinion on...

 

Anyway, I think that the clubs/courses are missing out on a potential revenue source as I assume that a lot of tourneys are held annually so marketing and selling pin flags should be a hot item for golfers that were fortunate to clinch wins on their courses. 

 

BTW, I was also able to receive a free pin flag from a private club for my win # 5 last year so not all clubs will be as bad as my experience from win # 6.

 

On the other hand,  I also didn't have any issues with securing my win # 3 at Bethpage State Park Red because they sell pin flags so I guess it's a mix bag depending on the course/club.  

 

We all know that winning a tourney whether it's an elite amateur or just amateur tourneys is no easy feat so I try to maximize my amateur tourney experience by always matching my trophies with pin flags. 

[Warrior42111]

That was the largest humble (cough) brag post I've seen in a while. 

 

Count that as win #7

[Golfbit2X]

20 minutes ago, Warrior42111 said:

That was the largest humble (cough) brag post I've seen in a while. 

 

Count that as win #7

I might as well... it was probably as difficult as my last win with the time and effort I put in. 🤣

 

While I'm not a member at that club,  I still had to pay about $200 for the tourney fee at my golf tour so I still think that the club should provide the courtesy to purchase/receive a pin flag.

 

After 3 phone calls to their Pro Shop and not getting any call backs after 3 months, I had to get creative to get their attention.

 

Shout-out to Google Map reviews!

Edited September 5, 2024 by Golfbit2X

[david.c.w]

On 9/5/2024 at 1:32 PM, Golfbit2X said:

I guess it wasn't obvious that it was an actual experience that I based my opinion on...

 

Anyway, I think that the clubs/courses are missing out on a potential revenue source as I assume that a lot of tourneys are held annually so marketing and selling pin flags should be a hot item for golfers that were fortunate to clinch wins on their courses. 

 

BTW, I was also able to receive a free pin flag from a private club for my win # 5 last year so not all clubs will be as bad as my experience from win # 6.

 

On the other hand,  I also didn't have any issues with securing my win # 3 at Bethpage State Park Red because they sell pin flags so I guess it's a mix bag depending on the course/club.  

 

We all know that winning a tourney whether it's an elite amateur or just amateur tourneys is no easy feat so I try to maximize my amateur tourney experience by always matching my trophies with pin flags. 

 

I can tell you one thing, outside of bucket list courses, pin flags are NOT hot items.  I have bought 2 in my 50 years.  One for my under par round and one for my HIO.  I have never seen or heard of anyone else buying one as a souvenir.

 

[mshills]

27 minutes ago, david.c.w said:

 

I can tell you one thing, outside of bucket list courses, pin flags are NOT hot items.  I have bought 2 in my 50 years.  One for my under par round and one for my HIO.  I have never seen or heard of anyone else buying one as a souvenir.

 

Exactly. But….the demand that a flag should be provided or the winner of an event is actually entitled to one, well, definitely fits the title of this thread. 

[Golfbit2X]

16 minutes ago, mshills said:

Exactly. But….the demand that a flag should be provided or the winner of an event is actually entitled to one, well, definitely fits the title of this thread. 

You're entitled to your opinion but I think that you may be in the minority opinion. 

 

Golfers, whether professional, elite or amateur tend to lose more than win so I think that keeping a pin flag is the more accepted tradition. 

 

Also, it is common knowledge on the the PGA Tour where the tradition is for the caddie to keep the pin flag if his golfer wins. In fact, the caddie can even remove the pin flag themselves immediately after the tournament has concluded. 

Edited September 6, 2024 by Golfbit2X

[tips09]

1 hour ago, Golfbit2X said:

You're entitled to your opinion but I think that you may be in the minority opinion. 

 

Golfers, whether professional, elite or amateur tend to lose more than win so I think that keeping a pin flag is the more accepted tradition. 

 

Also, it is common knowledge on the the PGA Tour where the tradition is for the caddie to keep the pin flag if his golfer wins. In fact, the caddie can even remove the pin flag themselves immediately after the tournament has concluded. 

Honestly comparing an amateur event to the PGA Tour doesn’t  really hold a ton of weight for arguments sake in my eyes. At the same time I think it is pretty cool that you’ve been able to actually win events and get flags for your collection. Will this ever be a widely accepted practice outside the PGA Tour or other elite pro golf events? Doubtful, but this is also an unpopular golf opinion thread and that’s why this discussion is happening. Keep growing that collection and years down the line when someone asks about all the flags on your wall, I’m sure you’ll have some pretty cool stories to tell. 

Edited September 6, 2024 by tips09

[Foxx]

Maybe it's a popular opinion, but I try not to play with bad golfers. I'd prefer not to play at all.

 

The game is too stop start with all their shots, and constantly searching for balls in the trees.

 

I like playing with golfers who hit the ball a similar distance, and hit most fairways.

[RoyalMustang]

Mine is that people who are struggling with their game should work on fixing their bodies (flexibility, motor patterns and control, strength, coordination) before they take a bunch of lessons or get fit for new clubs. Otherwise you're just banging your head against a wall. If you can't do the movement, paying a coach to tell you to do the movement is a waste of money. 

 

I get tired of hearing at the range guys complaining of "getting old and losing distance" and doing absolutely nothing to counteract it. Of course you'll lose distance as you get older and your swing will get worse if you don't work on golf-specific fitness. I'd wager that pros spend 20% of their time training w/o a club in their hands. 

[vtpachyderm]

Net or handicap adjusted scores should not be used in competitions. Handicaps should only be used to break comps into different divisions/levels/categories.

[TallGuy90]

Probably not unpopular but I don’t know where else to post this. We really need to be getting a round of golf down to 3-3.5 hours. A pace of play of 4.5 hrs is still insane to me.  People in carts with 2 could probably save 20-30 mins alone just by dropping one person off and having the other go to their ball. You don’t need to wait for your partner to hit his/her ball for you to get ready for the cart drivers shot. 

[klebs01]

3 hours ago, TallGuy90 said:

Probably not unpopular but I don’t know where else to post this. We really need to be getting a round of golf down to 3-3.5 hours. A pace of play of 4.5 hrs is still insane to me.  People in carts with 2 could probably save 20-30 mins alone just by dropping one person off and having the other go to their ball. You don’t need to wait for your partner to hit his/her ball for you to get ready for the cart drivers shot. 

I agree in principle but the target really needs to be in the 2.5-3 hour range. That’s a nice comfortable walking pace. 3:30 is very leisurely. 

Edited September 11, 2024 by klebs01

[mshills]

6 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

I agree in principle but the target really needs to be in the 2.5-3 hour range. That’s a nice comfortable walking pace. 3:30 is very leisurely. 

Not at my place it’s not. Terrain matters. 

[Warrior42111]

40 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

I agree in principle but the target really needs to be in the 2.5-3 hour range. That’s a nice comfortable walking pace. 3:30 is very leisurely. 

If golf courses actually think this was a good possibility this would already be the case, all that money on extra tee times, range balls, carts, etc.

 

If it was anywhere near reasonable they'd be all for it 

[klebs01]

20 minutes ago, Warrior42111 said:

If golf courses actually think this was a good possibility this would already be the case, all that money on extra tee times, range balls, carts, etc.

 

If it was anywhere near reasonable they'd be all for it 

It’s reasonable. We play 5s on Saturday mornings and finish in 3:30 or less. If we were in 4s it would be more in the 3 or less range. 

[PNWGuy]

People who purposely pound their tees flush to the ground after hitting their shot should be sentenced to removing every embedded tee from every tee box before being allowed to play again.

[Argonne69]

Just now, PNWGuy said:

People who purposely pound their tees flush to the ground after hitting their shot should be sentenced to removing every embedded tee from every tee box before being allowed to play again.

 

No kidding. Just leave the thing in the ground as-is. If it's in the way, I'll remove it and toss it towards the tee marker. I just might wind up using it. 

 

[Mudguard]

Clean and place through the green for 10 months of the year should never have been invented. Why even bother mowing fairways, just perch it up on some nice grass and have at it. 

[Argonne69]

14 minutes ago, Mudguard said:

Clean and place through the green for 10 months of the year should never have been invented. Why even bother mowing fairways, just perch it up on some nice grass and have at it. 

 

Lol. A course that's preferred lies for 10 months a year is not a golf course. It's a pasture. 

 

[Warrior42111]

46 minutes ago, klebs01 said:

It’s reasonable. We play 5s on Saturday mornings and finish in 3:30 or less. If we were in 4s it would be more in the 3 or less range. 

I'm saying it's not reasonable for the majority of the playing public, for what they expect a round of golf to be.

 

Not knocking you, Me and a friend have zoomed around the course before, just saying golf is a social activity for the majority 

[mshills]

Lift / Clean / Place might as well be Lift / Clean / Cheat. 
 

It should never exist. Play the ball as it lies. If conditions are bad for you they are bad for everyone. Man up!

[Greenie]

5 hours ago, TallGuy90 said:

Probably not unpopular but I don’t know where else to post this. We really need to be getting a round of golf down to 3-3.5 hours. A pace of play of 4.5 hrs is still insane to me.  People in carts with 2 could probably save 20-30 mins alone just by dropping one person off and having the other go to their ball. You don’t need to wait for your partner to hit his/her ball for you to get ready for the cart drivers shot. 

 

My foursome usually plays around 3:30. We played Monday and were waiting behind a foursome of ladies all day that happened to be pretty darn good. I enjoyed watching them play as we waited. I could see that the group in front of them were the problem so I certainly didn't get worked up with the group in front of us. We were giving the ladies space. 

On 17 we couldn't avoid being at the tee box with them. The was a traffic jam behind us now. One of the ladies apologized for the hold up. I replied we can tell that you ladies are not the problem.

The one woman said they called the clubhouse on the group ahead of them because they were playing as a fivesome. She said the ranger talked to the group ahead of them and then rode back to them and said there wasn't anything he could do because they were on the recommended pace of 2:10 per nine. I replied that was bull crap because there was at least one open hole ahead of them and by looking at the backup behind us the course is playing faster. 

We finished at 4:20 (the recommended pace) but the laddies and my group wasn't happy with the pace of play. I like playing at this course because the POP never goes over 4hrs. when we play there with a packed course. Not this day!

Edited September 11, 2024 by Greenie

[Mudguard]

20 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Lol. A course that's preferred lies for 10 months a year is not a golf course. It's a pasture. 

 

It's the placing in the rough that drives me nuts.

[RoyalMustang]

6 hours ago, TallGuy90 said:

Probably not unpopular but I don’t know where else to post this. We really need to be getting a round of golf down to 3-3.5 hours. A pace of play of 4.5 hrs is still insane to me.  People in carts with 2 could probably save 20-30 mins alone just by dropping one person off and having the other go to their ball. You don’t need to wait for your partner to hit his/her ball for you to get ready for the cart drivers shot. 

 

Agreed. When my buddy and I walk, we casually walk 18 in 3:30. Two guys in a cart who don't know how to play out of a cart is always slower than 2 guys walking. 

[ESOX ZO]

Greens running at 10 or 11 are overrated

[klebs01]

3 minutes ago, ESOX ZO said:

Greens running at 10 or 11 are overrated

I agree. Slowing them down that much sucks. 

[RoyalMustang]

1 hour ago, klebs01 said:

I agree. Slowing them down that much sucks. 

 

It sure makes a huge difference when people have their speed control dialed. 15% too hard on a 20 footer running at 9 is maybe 3 feet by, running at 13 is almost 4.5 feet by the hole and certainly not a gimmie putt. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

On 9/10/2024 at 1:47 PM, RoyalMustang said:

Mine is that people who are struggling with their game should work on fixing their bodies (flexibility, motor patterns and control, strength, coordination) before they take a bunch of lessons or get fit for new clubs. Otherwise you're just banging your head against a wall. If you can't do the movement, paying a coach to tell you to do the movement is a waste of money. 

 

 

I know this one has been discussed and probably beaten to death in the I&A forum, but I disagree that this is true for MOST people. There are certainly some, but I would say physically "can't do the movement" is not most, and certainly not enough to make a blanket statement like yours. 

 

I don't disagree at all that people should be working on their bodies. Just for general health/wellness and mobility as we age. But I don't think it's such a limiting factor for MOST people to swing a golf club with the correct movements. 

[RoyalMustang]

1 hour ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

I know this one has been discussed and probably beaten to death in the I&A forum, but I disagree that this is true for MOST people. There are certainly some, but I would say physically "can't do the movement" is not most, and certainly not enough to make a blanket statement like yours. 

 

I don't disagree at all that people should be working on their bodies. Just for general health/wellness and mobility as we age. But I don't think it's such a limiting factor for MOST people to swing a golf club with the correct movements. 

 

It's not my opinion: it's what Titleist Performance Institute found after analyzing thousands of golfers. Even amongst the pros that they work with, only one has ever fully passed their physical assessment. Adam Scott. Everyone else had something that restricted their swing in some way. Of course, that restriction was something that people were able to work around or simply couldn't change (see Jon Rahm and his fused lead ankle) but if every single tour pro save for one guy has some sort of issue to address, it's a good bet that most of us non-athletes have issues at least 10X if not 20X worse. 

 

This was awhile back, but someone else posted here that to make a proper golf swing, 44 degrees in external rotation in the trailing hip is required. Less than that and you can't make a full swing and end up adding a work-around (typically sway). My wife measures this on her patients: over 18 months, 63% didn't have enough external rotation. So, that's 63% of us, right off the bat, that can't swing a club the right way. And that's only one issue out of potentially 15 or so. There are a ton of moving parts in the body involved in the swing. Spinal range, ROM in shoulders, wrists, hands, fingers. disssociation between hips and torso. 

 

I'll give you a personal example: me. I'm athletic, always have been. Played on a little league travel team as a kid, got down to around a 7 cap after 18 months of playing golf as a 13-15 year old, had a full scholarship for cross country and track at a D1 school, raced on the road as a pro cyclist for a few years. When I picked up golf again, I had no flexibility where I needed it and improving was like banging my head against the wall; lessons told me what to do but I inherently knew the coach didn't understand my body's limitations. He wanted me to take a longer backwing, so I picked up a bad sway and throw backwards with my arms; my torso and hips were locked up.  It wasn't until I started addressing my weaknesses (motor patterns, spinal, hip, shoulder, and wrist flexibility) that I got over the hump with regards to consistentcy. 

 

Those lessons were patches for my physical issues but caused long-term bad habits which I'm trying to correct now that I can more easily make those movements.  I'm still rebuilding my swing but there is light at the end of the tunnel. Before last summer, I was wildly inconsistent. Our 208 yard par 3, I could be on the green 3/10 times, off in the bunker right 2/10 times, right in the trees 2/10 times, short 1/10, and the water left 2/10 times. My scoring average was something like 4.3. Now, I'm 5/10 for GIR and if I miss, it's either a big long or a good miss right. Probably less than 2/10 are "bad" misses and my scoring average on that hole is 3.3. it's because I've eliminated the sway and have more control over my weight shift and therefore more consistency with my club path. 

 

Surely, some don't need help, but if I look at the range on a random day, I'd say pretty much every guy out there over 40 and woman over 50 lacks the hip range to make a decent swing. Most of the kids are fine, but that's not the bulk of people who golf. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

26 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

It's not my opinion: it's what Titleist Performance Institute found after analyzing thousands of golfers. Even amongst the pros that they work with, only one has ever fully passed their physical assessment. Adam Scott. Everyone else had something that restricted their swing in some way. Of course, that restriction was something that people were able to work around or simply couldn't change (see Jon Rahm and his fused lead ankle) but if every single tour pro save for one guy has some sort of issue to address, it's a good bet that most of us non-athletes have issues at least 10X if not 20X worse. 

 

This was awhile back, but someone else posted here that to make a proper golf swing, 44 degrees in external rotation in the trailing hip is required. Less than that and you can't make a full swing and end up adding a work-around (typically sway). My wife measures this on her patients: over 18 months, 63% didn't have enough external rotation. So, that's 63% of us, right off the bat, that can't swing a club the right way. And that's only one issue out of potentially 15 or so. There are a ton of moving parts in the body involved in the swing. Spinal range, ROM in shoulders, wrists, hands, fingers. disssociation between hips and torso. 

 

I'll give you a personal example: me. I'm athletic, always have been. Played on a little league travel team as a kid, got down to around a 7 cap after 18 months of playing golf as a 13-15 year old, had a full scholarship for cross country and track at a D1 school, raced on the road as a pro cyclist for a few years. When I picked up golf again, I had no flexibility where I needed it and improving was like banging my head against the wall; lessons told me what to do but I inherently knew the coach didn't understand my body's limitations. He wanted me to take a longer backwing, so I picked up a bad sway and throw backwards with my arms; my torso and hips were locked up.  It wasn't until I started addressing my weaknesses (motor patterns, spinal, hip, shoulder, and wrist flexibility) that I got over the hump with regards to consistentcy. 

 

Those lessons were patches for my physical issues but caused long-term bad habits which I'm trying to correct now that I can more easily make those movements.  I'm still rebuilding my swing but there is light at the end of the tunnel. Before last summer, I was wildly inconsistent. Our 208 yard par 3, I could be on the green 3/10 times, off in the bunker right 2/10 times, right in the trees 2/10 times, short 1/10, and the water left 2/10 times. My scoring average was something like 4.3. Now, I'm 5/10 for GIR and if I miss, it's either a big long or a good miss right. Probably less than 2/10 are "bad" misses and my scoring average on that hole is 3.3. it's because I've eliminated the sway and have more control over my weight shift and therefore more consistency with my club path. 

 

Surely, some don't need help, but if I look at the range on a random day, I'd say pretty much every guy out there over 40 and woman over 50 lacks the hip range to make a decent swing. Most of the kids are fine, but that's not the bulk of people who golf. 

 

Fair enough. Although you have to admit that the TPI has a vested interest in this... They're selling a product. That's not to say they're completely wrong, and absolutely not saying they're doing anything bad or deceptive. But if every tour pro--save one--fails at least one of their tests, that sorta belies the point that all of these physical measurements are critically important to make a functional golf swing. 

 

You and I are probably outliers in the opposite direction. We're both athletic, but if you were working on some of those other sports as a young person and not focusing on flexibility, you may have much more tightness than average--which got worse as you got older. Whereas for me I was doing a lot of martial arts at those ages and absolutely working on flexibility--which isn't what it once was but is much better now than average for 46-year old dudes of my build lol. 

 

I think both the physical and the mechanical skills are important. And that for a lot of golfers, there is probably a level with their athleticism that they can't get past a plateau without working on the physical stuff. I just think a lot of amateur golfers are well below that plateau because their swings have critical flaws that their bodies are NOT stopping them from fixing.