Your most unpopular Golf opinions?

[jda]

I cannot tell you the last time that I saw 4 hours posted as the desired play time at a course.  Even some of the private courses around me where 4 hours is in their culture are now over 4 hours on the weekends as the grumpy old fogies out for a "business round" are replaced by 30-50 year olds who don't mind a second to read a putt or have a chat.  4:20 to 4:30 are more normal with some well beyond as the day goes on.  4:15 a nine is pretty commonly advertised around me.

 

This course gets it.  Anybody want to guess where this is from?

 

It is time for most of you to just realize that 4:30 is reasonable whether you like it, or not.

[Dabetic]

Really enjoyed this thread. Some to add/echo:

 

- seeing more new courses with "gimmicky" (i.e. extremely undulated/difficult and require exceptional shot placement) green complexes. I think there's a place for, say, 1-2 of these, but no more

- no problem w alcohol on the course but you better be a decent player and/or able to control your alcohol

- light music is fine on occasion, but I know too many guys who seemingly cannot step on the course without their speaker. I most enjoy the quiet, meditative aspect of golf

- all for playing it as it lies, but having to play from a fairway divot just feels wrong. Shoot, I'd rather hit from the rough (non tournament/tour rough ofc) than from a fairway divot

- it is what it is, but golf courses built through neighborhoods really are collections of holes and not courses. Definitely not walker friendly, which is why you rarely see walkers on them. The ideal course is all together with little to no houses around

- big letter hats and wild-looking shirts, not for me

- driver needs to be harder to hit for those that play for a living. The modern ones are just too good. Even for ams, I think it would be interesting to play w harder-to-hit drivers

- golf is a wonderful meritocracy. Limited subjectivity, no referees, etc. You either got it in the hole or you didn't. I don't really like using handicaps. May the best man win, and if that's not me...get better

- perhaps most controversial, I don't like using lines on the ball on the green. I'd likely be a better putter if I did...but I just can't get myself to do it. Feels unnatural/non-traditional(?), likely slows down pace, etc. Part of me thinks a good rule would be you can clean and set your ball once it hits the green, but after that, don't touch until it's in the hole. Obviously, line-on-ball guys would hate that, and then what do you do when another ball is in your line...idk

- the vast majority of people that want to "grow the game" have a financial interest. They will always exist. So be it..

 

 

 

 

[Greenie]

24 minutes ago, jda said:

I cannot tell you the last time that I saw 4 hours posted as the desired play time at a course.  Even some of the private courses around me where 4 hours is in their culture are now over 4 hours on the weekends as the grumpy old fogies out for a "business round" are replaced by 30-50 year olds who don't mind a second to read a putt or have a chat.  4:20 to 4:30 are more normal with some well beyond as the day goes on.  4:15 a nine is pretty commonly advertised around me.

 

This course gets it.  Anybody want to guess where this is from?

 

It is time for most of you to just realize that 4:30 is reasonable whether you like it, or not.

 

That's totally ridiculous. A course in my area posting those expected pace of play times would be bad mouthed to no end.

 

There are several courses I play that have signs posted that say please don't make a tee time on the weekend before 12 unless you can play in 4 hrs. or less.  I played one off those courses on Sat. at 10:30 on a packed course and my foursome finished in 3:40. 

 

Overall I see most courses I play have a stated 2:10 per nine holes. That time is expected to be met no matter the time of day.

[MountainKing]

52 minutes ago, jda said:

I cannot tell you the last time that I saw 4 hours posted as the desired play time at a course.  Even some of the private courses around me where 4 hours is in their culture are now over 4 hours on the weekends as the grumpy old fogies out for a "business round" are replaced by 30-50 year olds who don't mind a second to read a putt or have a chat.  4:20 to 4:30 are more normal with some well beyond as the day goes on.  4:15 a nine is pretty commonly advertised around me.

 

This course gets it.  Anybody want to guess where this is from?

 

It is time for most of you to just realize that 4:30 is reasonable whether you like it, or not.

 

Most courses seem to have a card time of around 4:10 to 4:20. However, the big thing people often overlook is the next part, which says, "or keep pace with the group in front of you." The card time is generally the maximum time you should take to play a round, but if you're not keeping up with the group ahead, you're behind pace, even if you're playing at "card pace." Now cue the clowns who will say, "Well, my foursome isn't going to keep up with a twosome.", as if that's the specific scenario this is referring to. 

[needfasp3ed]

Taking a glove off/on 30+ times throughout a golf round is absurd to me. 

[gripandrip]

On 4/8/2024 at 2:56 PM, vandyfan said:

My unpopular opinion. This is a bad article unless the reader is a + handicap. I don't understand the fascination with playing really, really expensive and difficult courses for players that are not really good at golf. If the average male golfer truly is a 14-16 handicap, all of these courses will absolutely eat their lunch. 

 

 

 

skipping down to the list...

 

Pebble Beach/TPC Sawgrass - very expen$$$ive but yes, a once in a lifetime round sure. One has one of kind land/property and the other is just a crazy execution test. I am fine with these being on the list though they are not really that accessible, money wise. (really nothing on this list is)

Torrey Pines - This course is fairly overrated. Barely uses the canyon outside of a few holes. I don't get the obsession with TP. 
Bay Hill - Full disclosure, never played it. However, the article states "This classic Florida layout offers generous landing areas off the tee with few trees", which I have to quibble with. To quote Christmas Vacation, "are you sure about that, Clark?" Generous based on what criteria (Hole #3, Hole #9, Hole #11, Hole #15 IMMEDIATELY spring to mind as scary, narrow shots)? For a PGA Tour stop, maybe. For a resort course, no. A lot of people will play this course from the 6,800 yd blue tees and absolutely get punched in the mouth. 
Harbour Town - also super narrow with tiny greens. Some really good par 3s and the last 3 holes are amazing. I think this works GREAT as PGA Tour site to give the tour some variability but I cannot imagine a 10+ handicap has fun out here. Also, a lot of forgettable holes in the middle that could be anywhere in Florida/SC/Ga. 
PGA National - Champion - This is an execution test, plain and simple. It doesn't have fantastic views, it is a lot of retention ponds and houses that look the same. You are on defense all day. Add in a prevailing wind and the closing stretch is...frustrating. You could hit the ball great and still easily shoot in the mid 80s (ask me how I know). For me (this is my bad take afterall) that is not fun.
Innisbrook Resort - Copperhead - Also never played here. Again great test for professionals but it does not look fun for the average or even above average golfer. It just looks so so hard. 

 

Played Torrey Pines weekly back in the late 80's. I agree. Nice course, some nice views of the ocean, but I don't see the obsession.

[Double Mocha Man]

52 minutes ago, needfasp3ed said:

Taking a glove off/on 30+ times throughout a golf round is absurd to me. 

 

Agreed.  Stretches the fingers.  Mine stays on... does not seem to interfere with my chipping or putting.  Going home I even use it as a driving glove.

[MountainKing]

3 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

 

Agreed.  Stretches the fingers.  Mine stays on... does not seem to interfere with my chipping or putting.  Going home I even use it as a driving glove.

 

I sweat a lot a lot so any sort of stretching is less wear and tear then the sweat damage.  I also don't want my hand to be pale white by the end of the season while the rest of me is tan.  I never really thought about how often I take it off but I guess doing the math it would be 36 times.  I guess at this point it's automatic.

[MountainKing]

3 hours ago, Dabetic said:

Really enjoyed this thread. Some to add/echo:

 

- seeing more new courses with "gimmicky" (i.e. extremely undulated/difficult and require exceptional shot placement) green complexes. I think there's a place for, say, 1-2 of these, but no more

 

 

 

 

 

I love severe green complexes.  I have a bizarre eye condition and it impacts my depth perception and ability to notice smaller slopes.  I can make the short game very difficult.  I've used my feet for years which helps, but anytime you get me on a course with some crazy greens, as long as pin placements are reasonable, I turn into a different putter because I can actually read the greens.  I'd be all for this!

[Double Mocha Man]

45 minutes ago, MountainKing said:

I also don't want my hand to be pale white by the end of the season while the rest of me is tan. 

 

Yes, I have a farmer's tan on my right hand but not my left...

 

It used to be even more pronounced, when I carried my bag.  I would rest my right hand on top of my driver thereby pointing it directly at the sun.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2024 by Double Mocha Man

[jda]

While some of you are wanting to go faster on the golf course, you are surely driving slower and slower on the roads.  Remember that your place is directly behind the car in front of you and not in the fast lane going just the speed limit while mumbling under your breath "what do they want me to do, speed?" when you know damn well that they want you to speed or get out of the way.  Even if the car in front of you is going 80 MPH in a 65 MPH zone, get in your place right up on them or get off of the road.  

[Maine Golfer]

The local PD arrests you if you can't drive it 175 yards

[GowerND11]

On 10/8/2024 at 10:59 AM, jda said:

I cannot tell you the last time that I saw 4 hours posted as the desired play time at a course.  Even some of the private courses around me where 4 hours is in their culture are now over 4 hours on the weekends as the grumpy old fogies out for a "business round" are replaced by 30-50 year olds who don't mind a second to read a putt or have a chat.  4:20 to 4:30 are more normal with some well beyond as the day goes on.  4:15 a nine is pretty commonly advertised around me.

 

This course gets it.  Anybody want to guess where this is from?

 

It is time for most of you to just realize that 4:30 is reasonable whether you like it, or not.

4 hours for 9 holes?!?! I hope you are saying that in jest. If not, that is absurd. 

[Double Mocha Man]

4 minutes ago, GowerND11 said:

4 hours for 9 holes?!?! I hope you are saying that in jest. If not, that is absurd. 

 

4 hours for 9 holes is 2 hours of "standing around" time.

[GDB67]

Stats are for losers. Strokes gain my 🫏 

[Motoboss]

On 10/4/2024 at 9:37 AM, birdiesNbourbon said:

Tee boxes you play should be based on how long you can consistently hit the ball, not handicap.

 

People need to relax about pace of play.  If you want to play 3hr rounds on Saturday morning, go buy your own golf course.

 

You want to play a 5 hour round, go buy your own golf course.

[klebs01]

On 10/8/2024 at 9:59 AM, jda said:

I cannot tell you the last time that I saw 4 hours posted as the desired play time at a course.  Even some of the private courses around me where 4 hours is in their culture are now over 4 hours on the weekends as the grumpy old fogies out for a "business round" are replaced by 30-50 year olds who don't mind a second to read a putt or have a chat.  4:20 to 4:30 are more normal with some well beyond as the day goes on.  4:15 a nine is pretty commonly advertised around me.

 

This course gets it.  Anybody want to guess where this is from?

 

It is time for most of you to just realize that 4:30 is reasonable whether you like it, or not.

Every club I’ve been a member at has posted sub-4 hour pace. 

[mshills]

Unpopular opinion: I think we should complain more about PoP in this thread.

[PeterJP]

8 hours ago, mshills said:

Unpopular opinion: I think we should complain more about PoP in this thread.

Ha! Yes, and we should make it personal too. If someone doesn't agree with us, we can tell them it's because they're irresponsible moral degenerates (and selfish), with no integrity or love of the game (the way it was meant to be played). 

 

Edited October 11, 2024 by PeterJP

[Archimedes65]

If you drop a breakfast ball on the first tee, you’re not a golfer and you’re not playing golf.

[Argonne69]

17 hours ago, Archimedes65 said:

If you drop a breakfast ball on the first tee, you’re not a golfer and you’re not playing golf.

 

 

[Archimedes65]

2 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

 

 

 

No second breakfast either!

 

Seriously though, it boggles my mind how people think a round of golf starts when they’ve had at least two shots to put the ball in the fairway.  Whenever someone says ‘breakfast ball?’ to me on the first tee, I say ‘sure, if you’d rather be lying three in the fairway than one in the rough, go for it.’

 

And the response I often get when I say no breakfast balls is ‘oh, we’re not pros, we’re just out here having fun…’. I’m totally fine with that.  But you’re not playing a real round of golf and you should not be posting your score.  You’re just playing a practice round and you might as well drop second balls whenever you want during the round.

 

Edited October 13, 2024 by Archimedes65

[Archimedes65]

On 10/8/2024 at 8:46 AM, Greenie said:

 

That's totally ridiculous. A course in my area posting those expected pace of play times would be bad mouthed to no end.

 

There are several courses I play that have signs posted that say please don't make a tee time on the weekend before 12 unless you can play in 4 hrs. or less.  I played one off those courses on Sat. at 10:30 on a packed course and my foursome finished in 3:40. 

 

Overall I see most courses I play have a stated 2:10 per nine holes. That time is expected to be met no matter the time of day.

 

But 2:10 for nine is still slow.  The golfing world has just accepted that anything sub 4:30 for 18 is a reasonably quick round, which is ridiculous.  In the immortal words of Opus the penguin, “Even if a million people do a stupid thing, it is still a stupid thing.”

 

The maximum time it should ever take a foursome to play 18 holes, and this is assuming they are taking their time, socializing with each other, reading every putt and never rushing a shot, is 3:30.  It’s not hard to do.  And foursomes should be encouraged to attempt to complete 18 in closer to three hours, which can easily be done with no rushing at all if everyone plays ready golf.  My bet is that most of them would shoot better scores as well, because they’d be in a much better rhythm.

 

And the average country club guy who plays twice a week would save 100-150 hours of their life every year that they could then spend on something else.  Even if its just relaxing in the bar after the round, it’s gotta be better than just standing around on a golf course in the sun getting skin cancer…

 

[Argonne69]

4 hours ago, Archimedes65 said:

 

No second breakfast either!

 

Seriously though, it boggles my mind how people think a round of golf starts when they’ve had at least two shots to put the ball in the fairway.  Whenever someone says ‘breakfast ball?’ to me on the first tee, I say ‘sure, if you’d rather be lying three in the fairway than one in the rough, go for it.’

 

And the response I often get when I say no breakfast balls is ‘oh, we’re not pros, we’re just out here having fun…’. I’m totally fine with that.  But you’re not playing a real round of golf and you should not be posting your score.  You’re just playing a practice round and you might as well drop second balls whenever you want during the round.

 

 

I can live with a single breakfast ball by my playing partners, or one mulligan a side. My really frosts me are they players who take 5 or 6 mulligans a side. 

 

Almost got hit in the back of the head a couple of of summers ago. We were in the middle of the back nine, and my playing partner hit a reasonable tee shot. Saw the ball bounce near the left edge of the fairway. I had my clubs on my back ready to head down the fairway, and as soon as I saw the ball bounce near the rough I started walking. I got maybe 30 yds when a ball came sailing over my head. He decided to play another ball without announcing it. Total clown. 

 

[Argonne69]

11 minutes ago, Archimedes65 said:

 

But 2:10 for nine is still slow.  The golfing world has just accepted that anything sub 4:30 for 18 is a reasonably quick round, which is ridiculous.  In the immortal words of Opus the penguin, “Even if a million people do a stupid thing, it is still a stupid thing.”

 

The maximum time it should ever take a foursome to play 18 holes, and this is assuming they are taking their time, socializing with each other, reading every putt and never rushing a shot, is 3:30.  It’s not hard to do.  And foursomes should be encouraged to attempt to complete 18 in closer to three hours, which can easily be done with no rushing at all if everyone plays ready golf.  My bet is that most of them would shoot better scores as well, because they’d be in a much better rhythm.

 

And the average country club guy who plays twice a week would save 100-150 hours of their life every year that they could then spend on something else.  Even if its just relaxing in the bar after the round, it’s gotta be better than just standing around on a golf course in the sun getting skin cancer…

 

 

 

[mshills]

26 minutes ago, Archimedes65 said:

 

The maximum time it should ever take a foursome to play 18 holes, and this is assuming they are taking their time, socializing with each other, reading every putt and never rushing a shot, is 3:30.  It’s not hard to do.  And foursomes should be encouraged to attempt to complete 18 in closer to three hours, which can easily be done with no rushing at all if everyone plays ready golf.  

 

You can’t make blanket statements about PoP though. This topic is always situational. Layout matters, terrain matters, weather matters, cart or walking matters. Someone who is used to playing a bowling-alley flat course in the Midwest, sure.  Come to a hilly course and try to walk it when it’s 85 degrees and 65% humidity…finishing a four-ball pushing or carrying in 3:30 is just not realistic or reasonable.

 

This is the internet after all, so I am sure the usual cast of characters will call me slow.  That is fine.  Out there in the real world I have never once been accused of slow play in 35 years of play, not once.  I am efficient, and I’d never say I’m the fastest player on the course, but I’d never concede being slow either. 

[Archimedes65]

12 minutes ago, mshills said:

 

You can’t make blanket statements about PoP though. This topic is always situational. Layout matters, terrain matters, weather matters, cart or walking matters. Someone who is used to playing a bowling-alley flat course in the Midwest, sure.  Come to a hilly course and try to walk it when it’s 85 degrees and 65% humidity…finishing a four-ball pushing or carrying in 3:30 is just not realistic or reasonable.

 

This is the internet after all, so I am sure the usual cast of characters will call me slow.  That is fine.  Out there in the real world I have never once been accused of slow play in 35 years of play, not once.  I am efficient, and I’d never say I’m the fastest player on the course, but I’d never concede being slow either. 

 

Of course there are exceptions, but the typical golf course is not a long hilly, difficult walk, which is what we’re talking about.

 

Edited October 13, 2024 by Archimedes65

[Archimedes65]

Oops, I misquoted Opus…

 

 

[Greenie]

2 hours ago, Archimedes65 said:

 

But 2:10 for nine is still slow.  The golfing world has just accepted that anything sub 4:30 for 18 is a reasonably quick round, which is ridiculous.  In the immortal words of Opus the penguin, “Even if a million people do a stupid thing, it is still a stupid thing.”

 

The maximum time it should ever take a foursome to play 18 holes, and this is assuming they are taking their time, socializing with each other, reading every putt and never rushing a shot, is 3:30.  It’s not hard to do.  And foursomes should be encouraged to attempt to complete 18 in closer to three hours, which can easily be done with no rushing at all if everyone plays ready golf.  My bet is that most of them would shoot better scores as well, because they’d be in a much better rhythm.

 

And the average country club guy who plays twice a week would save 100-150 hours of their life every year that they could then spend on something else.  Even if its just relaxing in the bar after the round, it’s gotta be better than just standing around on a golf course in the sun getting skin cancer…

 

 

I'll agree that 2:10 is slow. Anything over 4 hrs. IMO is slow for 18.

 

I play in a group of guys that are all in their mid 60's. Without waiting on groups ahead we play in 3:20-3:30 every time.

 

It cracks me up when someone says we are not rushing around like you guys. Who is rushing around? We could play in under 3 hrs. if we actually rushed around. We are out to have fun and enjoy our round.

 

All you have to do is be efficient and play ready golf. 

 

 

[jda]

Never met a foursome in their 60s who play in less than 5 hours in a men's club event even bragging about their normal round times.

 

The difference here is probably golf vs something else where everybody's definition of golf is different.  Twosome

cannot play competitive rounds in four hours so don't know how anybody who plays the same way is expected to in a foursome.  I guess if you are playing your home course and don't need to study greens and yardages then you can play faster.  I wish that people would separate their times on home courses and away since I don't believe anybody when they say that they are the same and their score does not suffer.

Edited October 14, 2024 by jda