My putting journey

[MountainGoat]

I recently discovered that I need to improve my putting, so in addition to taking a lesson, I read a book on the subject written by a noted, internationally recognized expert.

 

This person has 15 fundamentals that he wants you to master, and he wants you to do 10,000 repetitions to engrain those fundamental into muscle memory. Then he wants another 10,000 to make the changes permanent. Before we call this person “crazy”, let me just say that I’ve heard this exact instruction from full swing teachers, as well.

 

20,000 repetitions. You can’t just stand there and bang balls. No. For each one, he wants you to go thru your entire routine. So, you have to stand behind the ball, find the line, place the ball, correct its alignment, step next to the ball, take 3 (yes, three) practice swings, step to the ball, hit the ball, and hold your finish for 5 (yes, five) seconds, all while getting instantaneous feedback from some practice device.

 

I do all this, and it takes no less than 45 seconds, longer if I have to readjust the ball’s alignment to the target line. Then, I have to go get the ball and walk back before starting the whole process all over again. All of that takes time, so let’s just call it 90 seconds for a completed cycle.

 

He wants you to do 100 repetitions per day. Hmmm. 100 times 90 seconds equals 9000 seconds which equals, hello, 2 ½ hours of uninterrupted putter drills…no stop, no rest, no pee breaks, no nothing. Just bang, bang, bang, steady for 2 ½ hours. Every. Single. Day.

 

That ain’t happening. How about 50 per day. That’s only 1 1/4 hours, which at least seems possible. 20,000 repetitions at 50 per day takes 400 days, every day without interruption. Today is September 29th. On that schedule, I’d be finished on November 3rd of 2020, just in time to vote.

 

Oh, and I forgot to mention. This author says that only 10 percent of the golfers he’s seen actually improve. An equal danger is that you’ll spend all that time engraining the wrong things. So, you’d better have a teacher nearby while you practice.

 

Is it any wonder hardly anyone ever improves?

 

[jut111]

yet I drastically improved my putting with a 2 hour lesson and a change in mindset.. different ways to skin a cat dude.

[NonCompetitive1]

> @jut111 said:

> yet I drastically improved my putting with a 2 hour lesson and a change in mindset.. different ways to skin a cat dude.

 

I did in a 30 minute lesson and switching to lefty putting (I play right handed). The different ways to skin a cat is bang on the money. Look MountainGoat, if you were young - say a kid - I'd be pumping you up to do this. Just be careful, we are adults. Improving fine motor skills is nearly impossible for an adult unless it's something you never did before in which case you'll get beginner gains of type.

[cadoipi]

> @NonCompetitive1 said:

> Improving fine motor skills is nearly impossible for an adult unless it's something you never did before in which case you'll get beginner gains.

 

If you are putting using fine motor skills (e.g. hands and wrists), you can likely quickly improve if you stop using them to putt.

 

[NonCompetitive1]

> @cadoipi said:

> > @NonCompetitive1 said:

> > Improving fine motor skills is nearly impossible for an adult unless it's something you never did before in which case you'll get beginner gains.

>

> If you are putting using fine motor skills (e.g. hands and wrists), you can likely quickly improve if you stop using them to putt.

>

I know, I'm just not willing to do that. For some reason I putt better lefty using them. I think it's cheating to try and effectively ignore feel when putting. Less fun too (for me - everyone's concept of fun is different, I'm not taking a dig at anyone). So, I managed to find a decent putter that enables me to do this lefty (odyssey white hot Pro 2.0 1 - a horrible right handed putter for me...but a great lefty one for me..)

 

Maybe I'm naturally a left handed player and played the wrong side all along. Who knows.

 

[bladehunter]

> @jut111 said:

> yet I drastically improved my putting with a 2 hour lesson and a change in mindset.. different ways to skin a cat dude.

 

Care to share that 2 hour secret ?

[wagolfer7]

People don't improve when they practice the wrong thing or don't stay disciplined enough to keep practicing the right thing without giving it to their natural tendencies.

 

You could improve putting very quickly if you are doing the correct things to make it easier.

 

Putting is the strongest part of my game and gets the least attention because of that. As others have pointed out, learn how to putt with your core and not your hands arms and wrists. Proper mechanics actually works if you practice it correctly.

[bladehunter]

> @wagolfer7 said:

> People don't improve when they practice the wrong thing or don't stay disciplined enough to keep practicing the right thing without giving it to their natural tendencies.

>

> You could improve putting very quickly if you are doing the correct things to make it easier.

>

> Putting is the strongest part of my game and gets the least attention because of that. As others have pointed out, learn how to putt with your core and not your hands arms and wrists. Proper mechanics actually works if you practice it correctly.

 

I want to preface this by saying. I’m not at all arguing with you. I’m just very interested in this topic , and all sides of it.

 

Now. My initial thought on that post. What do you think of the many many many great putters of the game , who use their hands arms and wrists quite a bit.

 

Mr Burke , Jack , Palmer , Crenshaw , Fowler just off the top of my head.

[oikos1]

Read the putt. Pick the line. Match the speed.

 

Yeah, you don't need 20,000 reps to be a decent putter.

[SNIPERBBB]

It's simple take of the 10,000 repetition thing that's repeated in almost every pursuit in the last several years, which has been rather debunked.

 

I always liked the, it takes 10 times doing an action correctly to learn it, but if you mess one of those repetitions incorrectly it takes 100 more reps done correctly to fix it. It's a lot better platitude to me. Still a bit extreme though.. Not everyone can be VJ Singh.

[wagolfer7]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @wagolfer7 said:

> > People don't improve when they practice the wrong thing or don't stay disciplined enough to keep practicing the right thing without giving it to their natural tendencies.

> >

> > You could improve putting very quickly if you are doing the correct things to make it easier.

> >

> > Putting is the strongest part of my game and gets the least attention because of that. As others have pointed out, learn how to putt with your core and not your hands arms and wrists. Proper mechanics actually works if you practice it correctly.

>

> I want to preface this by saying. I’m not at all arguing with you. I’m just very interested in this topic , and all sides of it.

>

> Now. My initial thought on that post. What do you think of the many many many great putters of the game , who use their hands arms and wrists quite a bit.

>

> Mr Burke , Jack , Palmer , Crenshaw , Fowler just off the top of my head.

 

I'm not saying you can't and pros haven't, used a lot of wrist or hands. I used to have more wrist action in my stroke and still putted well.

[MountainGoat]

I never used the fine motor muscles of my hands and arms for putting. I've always been a shoulder rocker. The principle issue is one of connection. This is hard to explain.

 

Mechanically, shoulder rockers should are advised to keep their hands positioned directly under their shoulders, which supposedly results in the putter moving more straight back and straight thru than on an arc. In my experience, that's not totally true, but I accept the theory anyway. If, however, you connect your arms to your body, the club rocks not from the shoulders but from the lowest point of connection. For example, imagine you connected your upper arms to your body all the way down to your elbows. The club rocks more from your elbows than from your shoulders, creating the dreaded "body" style of putting that results in an extreme "screen door" arc to the putter blade.

 

My particular putter is fairly long, and over the years has got longer. I don't remember consciously doing that; it just sort of happened via various reshaftings. At any rate, the longer the putter got, the better it felt. The downside was that my connection got more extreme. Hence, my arc got more extreme, and it became harder to reliably square the face of the putter at impact. I was fine on long putts, when the stroke was longer, but I was becoming increasingly terrible on short putt, when the arc was short.

 

The mechanical adjustment has been to set up with longer arms such that the connection point is farther up near the arm pit. That results in a straighter stroke. The two issues are 1) it feels weird, and 2) the putter is shorter and, hence, lighter...in my case, a lot lighter. Another adjustment is to use the line on the ball for alignment, which I hate. The sum of these adjustments is that putting now feels entirely mechanical, and I have no feel for either the stroke or the hole. I feel like a robot, and the whole 'line on the ball' thing makes me feel ball-bound.

 

I'm sure it'll all be fine after another 19,950 repetitions (I knocked off 50 yesterday). Wish me luck.

 

 

[bladehunter]

> @MountainGoat said:

> I never used the fine motor muscles of my hands and arms for putting. I've always been a shoulder rocker. The principle issue is one of connection. This is hard to explain.

>

> Mechanically, shoulder rockers should are advised to keep their hands positioned directly under their shoulders, which supposedly results in the putter moving more straight back and straight thru than on an arc. In my experience, that's not totally true, but I accept the theory anyway. If, however, you connect your arms to your body, the club rocks not from the shoulders but from the lowest point of connection. For example, imagine you connected your upper arms to your body all the way down to your elbows. The club rocks more from your elbows than from your shoulders, creating the dreaded "body" style of putting that results in an extreme "screen door" arc to the putter blade.

>

> My particular putter is fairly long, and over the years has got longer. I don't remember consciously doing that; it just sort of happened via various reshaftings. At any rate, the longer the putter got, the better it felt. The downside was that my connection got more extreme. Hence, my arc got more extreme, and it became harder to reliably square the face of the putter at impact. I was fine on long putts, when the stroke was longer, but I was becoming increasingly terrible on short putt, when the arc was short.

>

> The mechanical adjustment has been to set up with longer arms such that the connection point is farther up near the arm pit. That results in a straighter stroke. The two issues are 1) it feels weird, and 2) the putter is shorter and, hence, lighter...in my case, a lot lighter. Another adjustment is to use the line on the ball for alignment, which I hate. The sum of these adjustments is that putting now feels entirely mechanical, and I have no feel for either the stroke or the hole. I feel like a robot, and the whole 'line on the ball' thing makes me feel ball-bound.

>

> I'm sure it'll all be fine after another 19,950 repetitions (I knocked off 50 yesterday). Wish me luck.

>

>

 

Very good info. And I must say you’ve taken the words from my mouth.

 

My recent swap to an Armlock putter may seem like going to a longer putter. But what it is , is effectively a 32 inch or so putter or less , with the setup position that I have. I truly think that the shorter putter length is the biggest difference. I had got as long as 36 inches and just like you said. The longer it got the better it felt on lag putts. But also the more I missed inside 10 ft. It’s odd and very curious to me. Just like you. My recent swap has left me feel less. But. I make a lot of putts. And scare the hole a lot. But still prone to 3 putt from odd ranges from time to time. And it’s always speed or feel related. And I can’t use the line on the ball. If I do my speed gets worse. I’m locked on the ball and just am worthless from distance. I’ll only use it on a dead straight 3-5 footer. Period.

 

Lastly I also have this ocd component on my head that feels like anything other than a traditional putting grip and stroke is cheating the system in a way. Not that I’m judging others. Just myself. In other words it’s a hole by hole reminder that I can’t putt without a crutch. And it’s going on 2 months and I think that every hole I play. I truly feel like it’s a real downer issue that eventually will come to a head if I hit a rough patch with current method.

 

I believe that a putting stroke has to have some arc. And is not controlled by the shoulders . Even though I’m currently using a hybrid of that idea. No good putter anywhere is that mechanical. Only the ones who bandaid a poor putting game. I’d truly love to fix my issue. Not tape over it.

 

All my opinion. Not looking to argue like I said. And not judging. I’m bandaiding myself currently.

 

 

[LyinEye]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @wagolfer7 said:

> > People don't improve when they practice the wrong thing or don't stay disciplined enough to keep practicing the right thing without giving it to their natural tendencies.

> >

> > You could improve putting very quickly if you are doing the correct things to make it easier.

> >

> > Putting is the strongest part of my game and gets the least attention because of that. As others have pointed out, learn how to putt with your core and not your hands arms and wrists. Proper mechanics actually works if you practice it correctly.

>

> I want to preface this by saying. I’m not at all arguing with you. I’m just very interested in this topic , and all sides of it.

>

> Now. My initial thought on that post. What do you think of the many many many great putters of the game , who use their hands arms and wrists quite a bit.

>

> Mr Burke , Jack , Palmer , Crenshaw , Fowler just off the top of my head.

 

Jackie Burke Jr. is flat out a nasty roller of the ball and not a pusher man. Mountain Goat, research all you can about Jackie Burke's stroke, you wont be disappointed, and it just takes a few days at most. Not 20,000 reps...lol.

[rich_s2]

what part of the putting process are you struggling with? Sounds like you are having problems starting it on the desired line

[bladehunter]

> @"Ping's Duck" said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @wagolfer7 said:

> > > People don't improve when they practice the wrong thing or don't stay disciplined enough to keep practicing the right thing without giving it to their natural tendencies.

> > >

> > > You could improve putting very quickly if you are doing the correct things to make it easier.

> > >

> > > Putting is the strongest part of my game and gets the least attention because of that. As others have pointed out, learn how to putt with your core and not your hands arms and wrists. Proper mechanics actually works if you practice it correctly.

> >

> > I want to preface this by saying. I’m not at all arguing with you. I’m just very interested in this topic , and all sides of it.

> >

> > Now. My initial thought on that post. What do you think of the many many many great putters of the game , who use their hands arms and wrists quite a bit.

> >

> > Mr Burke , Jack , Palmer , Crenshaw , Fowler just off the top of my head.

>

> Jackie Burke Jr. is flat out a nasty roller of the ball and not a pusher man. Mountain Goat, research all you can about Jackie Burke's stroke, you wont be disappointed, and it just takes a few days at most. Not 20,000 reps...lol.

>

 

Bottom line is that man can putt. Born with it. And doesn’t even truly know what he does entirely. That’s the best way. I feel that way on full swing and shortgame. I’d give a lot to feel that way with putter.

[Barfolomew]

"A decent putter can putt with any putter and any putting technique," said me.

 

Oh but you want to become a decent putter.

Try putting everyday for a couple months or more...

Get to know when you're feeling it vs not.

Your job is to get to that feeling.

Know what it feels like and how long it takes you to get there and what type of putts does it take in practice to arrive at that feeling.

..... then all of a sudden you'll get to that feeling really fast if you putt everyday. Sometimes right away. Then you just need to learn how little can you practice so you dont lose that connection to that great feel when you're in the zone.

Some days you'll even stop putting cause your already in the zone and don't feel you can really improve cause you're striping it.

[wagolfer7]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @"Ping's Duck" said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @wagolfer7 said:

> > > > People don't improve when they practice the wrong thing or don't stay disciplined enough to keep practicing the right thing without giving it to their natural tendencies.

> > > >

> > > > You could improve putting very quickly if you are doing the correct things to make it easier.

> > > >

> > > > Putting is the strongest part of my game and gets the least attention because of that. As others have pointed out, learn how to putt with your core and not your hands arms and wrists. Proper mechanics actually works if you practice it correctly.

> > >

> > > I want to preface this by saying. I’m not at all arguing with you. I’m just very interested in this topic , and all sides of it.

> > >

> > > Now. My initial thought on that post. What do you think of the many many many great putters of the game , who use their hands arms and wrists quite a bit.

> > >

> > > Mr Burke , Jack , Palmer , Crenshaw , Fowler just off the top of my head.

> >

> > Jackie Burke Jr. is flat out a nasty roller of the ball and not a pusher man. Mountain Goat, research all you can about Jackie Burke's stroke, you wont be disappointed, and it just takes a few days at most. Not 20,000 reps...lol.

> >

>

> Bottom line is that man can putt. Born with it. And doesn’t even truly know what he does entirely. That’s the best way. I feel that way on full swing and shortgame. I’d give a lot to feel that way with putter.

 

Post a Vid of your putting stroke. I'm sure there's something that is making it tougher.

[MountainGoat]

The local putting coach, who is aware of my woes, stopped me on the course yesterday and said he had been watching me practice. He said that from what he could see all my setup angles were fine, and the whole motion looked good. I thanked him for his comments and continued with the hole, which involved my missing a 3 ft putt. Someone above asked what I was trying to fix, and I think it all boils down to the fact that I can't get the ball to reliably roll end over end, i.e., put a line on the ball, orient it on the target line, and roll it without wobbling.

 

Time to examine the hardware. The last putter I bought was a Ping Anser 3 in 1992. It felt great the moment I picked it up, and it's been the only putter I've used ever since. I even have backup copies. However, my revised stance requires a shorter putter. So, I cut it down to the required length, regripped it with an modern oversized (88g) grip and tweaked the loft/lie. When I did that, the swing weight disappeared all the way down to C0. You may or may not believe in swing weight as an effective measure of putter performance, but I can testify that a C0 putter is unhitable...at least by me. So, I took the WRX approach and went shopping.

 

I tried a zillion putters, all imitation Ansers. I was surprisingly unimpressed by Scotties...at least for the price...and the new Ping Anser was just strange for some reason. Sort of liked the Odyssey, but the ball didn't go in the hole. Ultimately, I resonated with a TaylorMade TP Copper Collection Soto, which looks like an Anser but feels a lot better. Changeable weights too! Anyway, to make a long story short -- new stance, new putter, and the ball now rolls end over end.

 

Technology wins!

[dogsbe]

The 10000 balls a very simple way to grove the swing change. It is not about hitting that many balls, but to become automatic and really to erase your swing fault. Knocking 10000 balls will not make you better. Knocking out 10000 perfect balls will. However, you don't need 10000 balls.

 

What works for drilling in a new swing change is to go super slow motion and verbalize the movements outloud. This will develop your motor skills rather quickly by developing long term memory retrieval clues. When you think you can do it without fail, i.e. automatically here is the trick. Do the swing while singing or some kind of complex maths. This is called dual cognitive processing and if you can do something else while doing the swing, it is automatic. If you make a mistake, pause or stumble in the song or maths, your head went from unconscious to conscious and consequently, it ain't automatic.

 

[MountainGoat]

I'm not defending the commonly cited golf wisdom that it takes 10,000 or 20,000 repetitions to make a change. I'm merely pointing out its practical absurdity.

 

[ALIF]

Arm lock. Done!

[rich_s2]

> @ALIF said:

> Arm lock. Done!

 

I am soooooo tempted to try one but I have been putting great. THey just make so much sense

[MountainGoat]

Our club’s putting guru, who I mentioned previously, uses the arm lock method. He said the only issue was adapting the putter to accommodate the forward shaft lean. He’s deadly with it.

[badboggs]

I think you are making it too difficult. I'd suggest getting a putting string like this one.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Golf-Training-Aid-Putting-String/dp/B007BAOI4G

 

Hit putts with this and see how many you can make in a row. What do you have to do to make more in a row? Can you get to 100? The string will get your alignment right and teach you to set up with your eyes over the line. Try different putters. I've found a face balanced putter with a large line on it worked best for me. Figure out which combination of putter and technique work for you and stick with that. See how many in a row you can make.

 

Good luck.

[bladehunter]

> @MountainGoat said:

> Our club’s putting guru, who I mentioned previously, uses the arm lock method. He said the only issue was adapting the putter to accommodate the forward shaft lean. He’s deadly with it.

 

There’s enough to it that I won’t be shocked if they ban it. You should try one , but I caution you to make sure it’s correct length etc. I hated the idea until I got into one that had specs for my height and an upright lie angle.

[KC13]

This is why I don't read books...

[ALIF]

> @"rich s" said:

> > @ALIF said:

> > Arm lock. Done!

>

> I am soooooo tempted to try one but I have been putting great. THey just make so much sense

 

I originally tried it about 4 or 5 years ago. The problem was however that I could not consistently line the ball up properly due to the forward shaft lean looking funny and messing with my sense of positioning. I have been putting pretty well recently but about two weeks ago I switched back to the arm lock. I definitely am putting better with the arm lock. I have finally figured out how to consistently and reliably line the ball up. The more I practice with it, the more natural it feels. The last few times I’ve played I’ve noticed if I have missed the putt it is because I either left it short or miss read it. I have been putting on really fast greens as well. 12 to 13 on the stimp meter with significant undulation. I feel like this method really lessens the effect of nerves on putting. I’m going to stick with it. I don’t see myself going back to my old regular way.

 

[MountainGoat]

> @badboggs said:

> I think you are making it too difficult.

 

Then you're really going to hate this. Here’s my indoor putting station:

 

 

Ball to hole distance is 8 feet. The mirror ensures I get set up correctly every time. I’ve got a notched version for the practice green at the course. The rails provide feedback to encourage a more linear stroke. Within this learning system, the goal is to narrow them over time as the stroke settles in and straightens out. Movable bars across the top can be used to set backswing and follow-thru distances, if desired. The metronome is for tempo, not just stroke tempo but the rhythm of the whole putting sequence.

 

It’s a fairly simple matter to slip downstairs a half-dozen times a day and knock out 10 putts or so. I find this a more achievable process than trying to knock out 50 or 100 at a time.

 

I’ve already learned that my former putter was, indeed too long resulting in either a rotten stance or the ball being outside my eye line. Both created a stroke having too much arc. That appears to have been the source my directional errors on shorter putts. A larger grip has helped get both my hands equally on the club. I had been very left sided previously. A more modern putter corrected the swing weight issue that developed when shortening the length.

 

Finally, I discovered that I have a nasty habit of tilting my head a bit and throwing off my sight line. Not sure how that got started. Might have been when I fractured my neck in a fall last year. I developed a number of orthopedic issues after that.

 

FWIW -- The string technique previously recommended is considered a wonderful drill AFTER the student has worked out correctable mechanical issues indoors. If you jump into that drill too early, you simply grind in a lot of compensating moves that are ultimately difficult to maintain.

[QuigleyDU]

I am not a good putter by any stretch of the imagination. But, when I am putting well, it is usually after doing 3 drills regularly. I don't worry about stroke too much. I do not do any gate type drills. I do three drills.

 

1. ladder drill with tee's placed every two feet out to 8'sh feet. I start short and work out, then back down and start over.

2. clock drill at 4 feet.

3. place a tee in the green and try to hit the tee from various spots. Helps focus on a small target.