My Road to Improvement - 7/9/25 new swing video

[TheDeanAbides]

9 minutes ago, bortass said:

All good. There's been a bunch of stuff brought up in the last day. My main focus still needs to be the pelvis/hips and making sure I do not mess up my grip again. Hopefully I can tackle some of the arm stuff this summer but I am not sure how long it will take to improve how my hips move. The OTT move is probably gonna stay with me until I can get rid of the inside take way from rolling my forearms.

Honestly, just getting more width would be a massive boost.

[Chunkitgood]

I recommend to the OP this website, put up anonymously as far as I can tell, and in particular this page:

 

https://www.youandyourgolfswing.com/golf-swing-rotation.html

 

I believe that site is correct.  The body will rotate around a vertical axis straight from the ground through its center of mass.  At setup the center of mass is as described and that axis passes through the torso.  The important thing is that the center of mass is in front of the pelvis.  A good exercise is to assume a golf like posture with your shoulder level with your weight just behind the balls of your feet, imagine an axis straight up from the ground through a point in your body directly above where you feel your weight is, maybe your navel or zipper, and rotate your torso around tthat axis without otherwise moving it.  Your sacrum and pelvis will go left, since it is anterior to the axis, and your upper body right.  This is an exercise to get a feel for rotation around a vertical axis.  In an actual swing the center of mass does move first to the right then to the left, and the upper body extends in the backswing, etc.  

 

From set up with your center of mass more or less centered, you can move your center of mass around a lot, say too far to the right over your right foot, or even to your left, in the backswing, and your body will rotate around it, or you can move your center of mass to inside your pelvis, and the body will still rotate around it, but the results in these cases will be unfortunate.  Or you can better control the movement of the center of mass, to produce a proper shot.

 

Feel free to ignore this from an outlier like myself, or you may wish to compare the link above to what Dr. Kwon says on ground reaction forces producing torque and in particular this page:

 

http://drkwongolf.info/biom/fgmom.html

 

I came across the site above after reading Dr. Kwon talking about rotation around a vertical axis through the center of mass, and did a web search using those words, and that’s about all I found.  Just redid the search and found this guy who is mostly on first glance shall we say full of it but at least recognizes pelvis rotation is eccentric, I.e., not around its center.

 

https://grayinstitute.com/blog/evidence-that-matters-for-function-dynamics-of-pelvis-rotation

 

Otherwise the golf world seems to ignore Dr. Kwon’s idea that the body will move around a vertical axis through its center of mass.

 

 

[mshills]

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, Chunkitgood said:

Feel free to ignore this from an outlier like myself,

You misspelled troll.

 

 Mid handicaps aren’t really outliers 

[bortass]

5 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Honestly, just getting more width would be a massive boost.

My swing feels like any improvement would be a massive boost. I know that’s not true because I can play mediocre, and sometimes pretty decent, golf with my swing. 
 

I do need to be careful that I don’t try to do too much. In theory, I could work on both pelvis and width by splitting time between the two. It is two different areas of the body compared to say, getting my left wrist flat and getting width. I can see multiple ‘fixes’ in the same area as being problematic. It would take longer though. 
 

I can see it as a bit of a thought experiment. Is it better to solidify the pelvis by itself or are there more gains by improving the pelvis some along with improving the width some? Trade offs…. I don’t think improving my pelvis will make my width better or vice versi.

 

I’m just thinking out loud here btw.

[TheDeanAbides]

3 hours ago, bortass said:

My swing feels like any improvement would be a massive boost. I know that’s not true because I can play mediocre, and sometimes pretty decent, golf with my swing. 
 

I do need to be careful that I don’t try to do too much. In theory, I could work on both pelvis and width by splitting time between the two. It is two different areas of the body compared to say, getting my left wrist flat and getting width. I can see multiple ‘fixes’ in the same area as being problematic. It would take longer though. 
 

I can see it as a bit of a thought experiment. Is it better to solidify the pelvis by itself or are there more gains by improving the pelvis some along with improving the width some? Trade offs…. I don’t think improving my pelvis will make my width better or vice versi.

 

I’m just thinking out loud here btw.

TBH, the biggest limiting factor is that very deeply engrained OTT move. Now you have your pelvis working a little better you can get your arms in a better slot. That should help you tame it. That's when you'll start playing decent golf. Don't fool yourself that the odd stretch of pars counts, Boris. 

[bortass]

7 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

TBH, the biggest limiting factor is that very deeply engrained OTT move. Now you have your pelvis working a little better you can get your arms in a better slot. That should help you tame it. That's when you'll start playing decent golf. Don't fool yourself that the odd stretch of pars counts, Boris. 

Delusions crushed by harsh reality! My happy place in ruin! LOL.

 

I know what you're saying and agree completely, when I play good( for me) it is in spite of my broken swing. It's why I have never been able to replicate that great period of play in 2023 where my index hit 14.x. Fundamental flaws in my swing are too hard for me to overcome on a regular basis.

 

My understanding is OTT is a symptom, not a cause. Issues with my takeaway and backswing cause the club to be behind me and shallow at the top of my swing. The poor pelvis movement creates no space for the hands since I either never or struggle to 'clear the hips'. The only way I can route the club back to the ball is by driving the right shoulder forward.

 

Better pelvis movement won't cause my OTT to go away. It sets the stage for better sequencing and the possibility of moving my hands/arms better, if I can get them into a more correct spot during the takeaway/backswing.

 

Am I in the ball park with the above?

 

Bear with me here, if I think of going from big to small with regard to body parts, . I know I have width issues(arms) and my wrists do not move correctly. I should try to improve the width first because my arms movement dictates where my hands are in 3d space. Yeah, I'm simplifying a bit because the pelvis moves shift the COM which also dictates where the hands are in relation to the ball. If I can get my hands into a better spot then I have a better chance of doing  the stuff after more correctly. Pretty much the same concept as the pelvis, improving it's movement gives a better possibility for things later in the chain to be able to do what they really need to do.

 

Does that sound logical?

 

 

As an aside, I took the smart ball, closed my eyes, and did a back swing. It hit the floor. There should be no surprises with that. Now I wish I knew where that lanyard was.

 

 

 

 

[TheDeanAbides]

23 minutes ago, bortass said:

Delusions crushed by harsh reality! My happy place in ruin! LOL.

 

I know what you're saying and agree completely, when I play good( for me) it is in spite of my broken swing. It's why I have never been able to replicate that great period of play in 2023 where my index hit 14.x. Fundamental flaws in my swing are too hard for me to overcome on a regular basis.

 

My understanding is OTT is a symptom, not a cause. Issues with my takeaway and backswing cause the club to be behind me and shallow at the top of my swing. The poor pelvis movement creates no space for the hands since I either never or struggle to 'clear the hips'. The only way I can route the club back to the ball is by driving the right shoulder forward.

 

Better pelvis movement won't cause my OTT to go away. It sets the stage for better sequencing and the possibility of moving my hands/arms better, if I can get them into a more correct spot during the takeaway/backswing.

 

Am I in the ball park with the above?

 

Bear with me here, if I think of going from big to small with regard to body parts, . I know I have width issues(arms) and my wrists do not move correctly. I should try to improve the width first because my arms movement dictates where my hands are in 3d space. Yeah, I'm simplifying a bit because the pelvis moves shift the COM which also dictates where the hands are in relation to the ball. If I can get my hands into a better spot then I have a better chance of doing  the stuff after more correctly. Pretty much the same concept as the pelvis, improving it's movement gives a better possibility for things later in the chain to be able to do what they really need to do.

 

Does that sound logical?

 

 

As an aside, I took the smart ball, closed my eyes, and did a back swing. It hit the floor. There should be no surprises with that. Now I wish I knew where that lanyard was.

 

 

 

 

Pretty much, buddy. The pelvis was the biggest issue, and now it's getting into a P4 position that allows you to transition without the OTT. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

6 hours ago, bortass said:

 

My understanding is OTT is a symptom, not a cause. Issues with my takeaway and backswing cause the club to be behind me and shallow at the top of my swing. The poor pelvis movement creates no space for the hands since I either never or struggle to 'clear the hips'. The only way I can route the club back to the ball is by driving the right shoulder forward.

 

Better pelvis movement won't cause my OTT to go away. It sets the stage for better sequencing and the possibility of moving my hands/arms better, if I can get them into a more correct spot during the takeaway/backswing.

 

Am I in the ball park with the above?

 

 

I've always thought of OTT not necessarily as a symptom, but as the most "natural" way to get back to the ball from a bad position. 

 

It's why one of the things that I harped on you about was the "left shoulder under chin" thing. Because what I see in my fellow hackers is that once you get up out of your spine angle and start turning too flat, getting back down to the ball WITHOUT going OTT is just going to be hard. The "natural" response is to throw that right shoulder out towards the ball. Immediate OTT. And that's what I personally see in your swing. 

 

For me, I feel like I get that turn right, so I don't have to go OTT to fix it. Now, I've got other issues (too flat of a backswing and rolling the arms) which leads to steepness in transition, which I still need to compensate for. But it's an easier compensation without bringing in OTT than if I'd stood up and turned too flat. 

 

That said, IMHO you need to fix the conditions that make going OTT the natural response, because those conditions are sub-optimal. So it's not necessary about creating a new compensation to avoid OTT with your current move, but to fix that move. Other people are better than me at diagnosing and prescribing fixes... But that flat shoulder turn and standing up in the backswing is simply NOT something you see in a lot of elite swings IMHO. 

[bortass]

On 4/18/2025 at 5:32 PM, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

I've always thought of OTT not necessarily as a symptom, but as the most "natural" way to get back to the ball from a bad position. 

 

It's why one of the things that I harped on you about was the "left shoulder under chin" thing. Because what I see in my fellow hackers is that once you get up out of your spine angle and start turning too flat, getting back down to the ball WITHOUT going OTT is just going to be hard. The "natural" response is to throw that right shoulder out towards the ball. Immediate OTT. And that's what I personally see in your swing. 

 

For me, I feel like I get that turn right, so I don't have to go OTT to fix it. Now, I've got other issues (too flat of a backswing and rolling the arms) which leads to steepness in transition, which I still need to compensate for. But it's an easier compensation without bringing in OTT than if I'd stood up and turned too flat. 

 

That said, IMHO you need to fix the conditions that make going OTT the natural response, because those conditions are sub-optimal. So it's not necessary about creating a new compensation to avoid OTT with your current move, but to fix that move. Other people are better than me at diagnosing and prescribing fixes... But that flat shoulder turn and standing up in the backswing is simply NOT something you see in a lot of elite swings IMHO. 

This makes complete sense. I know Monte has stated multiple times that EE is a symptom, not a cause. I may have conflated the two but I think the concept still applies. I can't 'fix' the OTT move itself directly because it's a reaction to the sins that occurred in my takeaway and backswing. GIGO, garbage in, garbage out. This is not going to be a easy/simple fix but I will do my best to work on fixing the early mistakes that force me OTT. There's no timetable and if I apply what Monte, Iacas, and others have said, it's likely months+. Reducing the OTT or better yet eliminating it will likely have a significant impact on my game.

 

On 4/17/2025 at 4:06 PM, TheDeanAbides said:

Sorry that I didn't get a video to demonstrate the arm swing illusion. I think it's too much info for now, tbh. I think your latest video looks pretty good. Needs a bit more flattening of the left wrist, and I'd like to see DTL, but half decent.

No worries. I sent you a DTL, not sure if you saw it.

 

 

I am a bit at a loss as to what to discuss about my rounds. My challenge is I don't know what to look for on the course to determine if I'm on the right track. Improvement is going to be gauged over the seasons. I'll have to try and figure out what will make sense. I'm open to suggestions.

 

Saturday was rough with five lost balls and a bunch of issues, yet also had it's share of bright spots. I managed 5 pars and 6 bogeys. Blew up 7 times with multiple pickups.

 

Driver(-5.2 SG compared to a 10): A very mixed bag. When I make solid contact the results seem to be better than what I am used to. My misses are all over the place, I don't know how to make sense of it, but may make sense to some of you. 

 

Off the toe and push directly into the right trees almost directly off the tee(not a situation where it faded in). Never had a chance: Hit a tree about 100 yards from the tee box and bounced into a gully( tried to play, it so not a penalty, led to an X). 

 

Push fade into right side( starts down right side and fades in). Would have been real good if I had aimed for the left side:  Hit a tree and drops about 175 off the tee ( not a penalty, bogey).  Into a hazard and thanks to a steep slope a drop about 260 off the tee( drop and lead to double). Hits tree and drops about 150 off tee(par).

 

Pull into left tree directly off the tee: had no chance: Thin pull directly into left trees, hits something and ends up in fairway 135 yards from tee( leads to an X). Solid strike and enters left trees almost immediately, strikes a tree and kicks across fairway into right hazard( drop and leads to an X).

 

Pull draw into left trees. Starts at left trees and has draw spin. Would be great if aimed at right side:  Into left trees and found 168 yards off tee(bogey).

 

Approach shots(-5.7 SG compared to a 10): Ditto but better than normal. I had major issues with chunking my SW on both partial shots and pitches(50+ yards). Did real good in the 150-174 yard range for a change and all other distance bands had a few issues. A terrible 7W off the deck struck off the toe and directly into right trees(drop). Some heavy irons but they didn't kill me, just led to bogeys. Only 4 GIR.

 

Short game(-1.9 SG compared to a 10): Worse than normal. I struggled in chips/pitches 25-50 yards. I had issues in a couple bunkers, one that led to an X.

 

Putting (-0.8 SG compared to a 10): Better than normal with only 1 three putt from 27 feet.

[TheDeanAbides]

10 minutes ago, bortass said:

This makes complete sense. I know Monte has stated multiple times that EE is a symptom, not a cause. I may have conflated the two but I think the concept still applies. I can't 'fix' the OTT move itself directly because it's a reaction to the sins that occurred in my takeaway and backswing. GIGO, garbage in, garbage out. This is not going to be a easy/simple fix but I will do my best to work on fixing the early mistakes that force me OTT. There's no timetable and if I apply what Monte, Iacas, and others have said, it's likely months+. Reducing the OTT or better yet eliminating it will likely have a significant impact on my game.

 

No worries. I sent you a DTL, not sure if you saw it.

 

 

I am a bit at a loss as to what to discuss about my rounds. My challenge is I don't know what to look for on the course to determine if I'm on the right track. Improvement is going to be gauged over the seasons. I'll have to try and figure out what will make sense. I'm open to suggestions.

 

Saturday was rough with five lost balls and a bunch of issues, yet also had it's share of bright spots. I managed 5 pars and 6 bogeys. Blew up 7 times with multiple pickups.

 

Driver(-5.2 SG compared to a 10): A very mixed bag. When I make solid contact the results seem to be better than what I am used to. My misses are all over the place, I don't know how to make sense of it, but may make sense to some of you. 

 

Off the toe and push directly into the right trees almost directly off the tee(not a situation where it faded in). Never had a chance: Hit a tree about 100 yards from the tee box and bounced into a gully( tried to play, it so not a penalty, led to an X). 

 

Push fade into right side( starts down right side and fades in). Would have been real good if I had aimed for the left side:  Hit a tree and drops about 175 off the tee ( not a penalty, bogey).  Into a hazard and thanks to a steep slope a drop about 260 off the tee( drop and lead to double). Hits tree and drops about 150 off tee(par).

 

Pull into left tree directly off the tee: had no chance: Thin pull directly into left trees, hits something and ends up in fairway 135 yards from tee( leads to an X). Solid strike and enters left trees almost immediately, strikes a tree and kicks across fairway into right hazard( drop and leads to an X).

 

Pull draw into left trees. Starts at left trees and has draw spin. Would be great if aimed at right side:  Into left trees and found 168 yards off tee(bogey).

 

Approach shots(-5.7 SG compared to a 10): Ditto but better than normal. I had major issues with chunking my SW on both partial shots and pitches(50+ yards). Did real good in the 150-174 yard range for a change and all other distance bands had a few issues. A terrible 7W off the deck struck off the toe and directly into right trees(drop). Some heavy irons but they didn't kill me, just led to bogeys. Only 4 GIR.

 

Short game(-1.9 SG compared to a 10): Worse than normal. I struggled in chips/pitches 25-50 yards. I had issues in a couple bunkers, one that led to an X.

 

Putting (-0.8 SG compared to a 10): Better than normal with only 1 three putt from 27 feet.

I'll have a look. Been busy as! 

 

Hitting it terribly is good at this point - it proves you're changing things. 

[SNIPERBBB]

Sounds like you're still having issues with low point control.  Something you might want to try next range session is either for the entirety of the session or last half of it, dont think about any drills or anything else. All you are doing is just making swings. Play with ball position a bit, back and forward, side to side. One thing youll find is that moving the ball back doesnt necessarily cause you to hit the ball thin, quite often its the after it because the only way to hit the ball if its too far back is to flip at it just to keep from hitting 6 inches behind the ball, just to hit it 2 inches behind the ball.  Reverse this for ball forward. Likewise side to side...pushing the ball away can lead to heel shots and pulling it off the toe.

[betarhoalphadelta]

2 hours ago, bortass said:

This makes complete sense. I know Monte has stated multiple times that EE is a symptom, not a cause. I may have conflated the two but I think the concept still applies. I can't 'fix' the OTT move itself directly because it's a reaction to the sins that occurred in my takeaway and backswing. GIGO, garbage in, garbage out. This is not going to be a easy/simple fix but I will do my best to work on fixing the early mistakes that force me OTT. There's no timetable and if I apply what Monte, Iacas, and others have said, it's likely months+. Reducing the OTT or better yet eliminating it will likely have a significant impact on my game.

 

 

I'm not opposed to the idea that OTT is a symptom. I look at it as having an ailment that can have a half-dozen symptoms, and that OTT move is the most common of them. Not EVERYONE will have that symptom--but plenty do. And I completely agree that fixing what comes before it is the way to go. 

 

It's like what Erky said about my swing. The "around" backswing leads to a steep transition (and commonly OTT which I don't have), but I compensate for it to shallow back on plane in the downswing. He thought that my compensation was going into right tilt early/fast. I'm not saying he's wrong, but I'm not sure I agree. I think that is one of the most common ways to shallow from that position, i.e. a typical symptom, but I think it's also possible I'm just doing it with hand/wrist/forearm strength to reroute. Still bad--and still requiring a compensation for what I'm doing wrong--but a case IMHO where one bad root cause doesn't ALWAYS result in the same bad symptom. 

 

So, yeah... Fix the backswing issues. Only work on fixing the OTT if the OTT still exists after fixing the backswing issues. 

[absoludicrous]

I think there have been good things @bortass can work on in the backswing as many have already suggested. But I think you can still come OTT on the downswing, even with a good backswing/takeaway. 

 

We are all aware of the Justin Rose drill. If I’m understanding him correctly, he’s trying to get the feel of dropping the hands to start the downswing before opening up his upper body. Same with Bryson getting his hands to the right pocket on the downswing.

 

This seems to be a fairly common problem. What happens when you turn the upper body before the hands come down? I’m pretty sure Justin Rose’s backswing is fine.

 

I’m not saying that a bad backswing won’t lead to OTT. I’m just saying it’s also possible to have a pro level backswing and still struggle.

[TheDeanAbides]

4 hours ago, absoludicrous said:

I think there have been good things @bortass can work on in the backswing as many have already suggested. But I think you can still come OTT on the downswing, even with a good backswing/takeaway. 

 

We are all aware of the Justin Rose drill. If I’m understanding him correctly, he’s trying to get the feel of dropping the hands to start the downswing before opening up his upper body. Same with Bryson getting his hands to the right pocket on the downswing.

 

This seems to be a fairly common problem. What happens when you turn the upper body before the hands come down? I’m pretty sure Justin Rose’s backswing is fine.

 

I’m not saying that a bad backswing won’t lead to OTT. I’m just saying it’s also possible to have a pro level backswing and still struggle.

100% this. 

[bortass]

22 hours ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Sounds like you're still having issues with low point control.  Something you might want to try next range session is either for the entirety of the session or last half of it, dont think about any drills or anything else. All you are doing is just making swings. Play with ball position a bit, back and forward, side to side. One thing youll find is that moving the ball back doesnt necessarily cause you to hit the ball thin, quite often its the after it because the only way to hit the ball if its too far back is to flip at it just to keep from hitting 6 inches behind the ball, just to hit it 2 inches behind the ball.  Reverse this for ball forward. Likewise side to side...pushing the ball away can lead to heel shots and pulling it off the toe.

My practice used to be more varied. I'd spend time trying to hit certain shots, say pitches, partial wedges, or punches, along with working on drills. I have gotten away from it and have gone down the path of 'must only try to fix the motor pattern issues'. I don't get to the range as much as I did back in '23 but I need to get a bit of balance between the drills and just hitting different shots.

 

@betarhoalphadelta, @absoludicrous, @TheDeanAbides thanks for the discussion on OTT in general. I see where you all are coming from. Just fixing the takeaway/backswing issues may not cause the OTT to go away but it'll give me a better chance to making a more correct swing. It'll be nice when I can start working on transition and downswing, and the wrists.... Someday I'll get there.

[SNIPERBBB]

1 hour ago, bortass said:

My practice used to be more varied. I'd spend time trying to hit certain shots, say pitches, partial wedges, or punches, along with working on drills. I have gotten away from it and have gone down the path of 'must only try to fix the motor pattern issues'. I don't get to the range as much as I did back in '23 but I need to get a bit of balance between the drills and just hitting different shots.

 

@betarhoalphadelta, @absoludicrous, @TheDeanAbides thanks for the discussion on OTT in general. I see where you all are coming from. Just fixing the takeaway/backswing issues may not cause the OTT to go away but it'll give me a better chance to making a more correct swing. It'll be nice when I can start working on transition and downswing, and the wrists.... Someday I'll get there.

Unless you really want to just take a long period of time off of playing and just stick to the range, you have to do some skills practice if you want to play well on the course.  At some point you have to take ownership of your swing and figure out the very fine details(ball location at address, grip, etc) to make it work for you. That's what I believe owning your swing is all about. Kinda like a old not so reliable car year you might technically own it but to be the true owner of it and to make it work well you need to know the gas it likes, maybe it's BP or Chevron gas. Maybe it only likes the gas that comes on Tuesdays and you gotta tap the dashboard 3x in the right spots to get it to start.

Edited April 22 by SNIPERBBB

[bortass]

31 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Unless you really want to just take a long period of time off of playing and just stick to the range, you have to do some skills practice if you want to play well on the course.  At some point you have to take ownership of your swing and figure out the very fine details(ball location at address, grip, etc) to make it work for you. That's what I believe owning your swing is all about. Kinda like a old not so reliable car year you might technically own it but to be the true owner of it and to make it work well you need to know the gas it likes, maybe it's BP or Chevron gas. Maybe it only likes the gas that comes on Tuesdays and you gotta tap the dashboard 3x in the right spots to get it to start.

Good point about owning the swing. My view has been I own the fact I have a 'bad swing'. I have not taken the view of this is the swing I have and how do I make it work?  I will have to get back to some of what I used to do when practicing such as spending time hitting partial wedges, etc. I tend to hit those  a number of times per round and it's lower hanging fruit. I can also try to do some work on club face control and low point.

 

Playing a round a week has the advantage of regular feedback on how the changes are going when it hits the 'real world'.  I've gotten better at not having a bunch of swing thoughts since I seem to be able to handle one key feel during my swing w/o things going sideways. It get rocky when I try to stack more things to think about.

 

[bortass]

I got a chance to go to the range today, no rain and my cold is finally starting to get better. I went down the path @SNIPERBBB had suggested and spent the entire session working on 'owning' my swing. No drills to be seen for a change. I did three things:

1. Warmed up hitting pitches and partial shots with my SW. I didn't keep track of how many balls I hit, probably around 15 or so. There were a few issues but it kind of smoothed out and I was getting playable results. I took a short break and moved on.
2. Worked on trying to improve my impact/ball flight with my 8i. I spent most of the session here. I messed around with ball position and the swing itself. No breakthroughs or magic I hit it like a pro when I flexed my left pec moments. I did come away with a couple observations though. Ball a bit more forward seemed to help a touch. My divots were close to the center of my chest, so I started to pay attention to shifting to the left. This seemed to help move things forward more. I still felt like I had my OTT move, so I added something else, which did change things. Cast A. No drills or slow motion swings, just added in the feel I have for Cast A. Contact and ball flight did change for the better. Higher shots w/o deep divots. I don't recall chunking any either. I then took a couple minute break and moved on
3. Low recovery shots with my 5i. Narrow stance and just trying to keep the ball very low as if I was hitting out from under trees or just wanted to try to run the ball up somewhere. These were mostly good with some issues sprinkled in. These were no 4L shots, smaller than that. The main thing I found that helped was feeling fluid with the swing, letting myself move. 

 

A couple notes regarding the entire session.

• I paid attention to my grip for every shot. I'm still not automatic with it but I went through and regripped for each swing.
• I did my best to square my shoulders at address. It was pointed out my shoulders, alone, are open at address. It's something I noticed about my general posture a very long time ago. My right shoulder sits more forward than my left. I don't know if this is true but I think it's because of 30+ years of mouse and keyboard. 

I paid attention to shifting right at the start of my swing when I worked on the 8i and 5i. The feel was present which is a good sign IMO. I wasn't diving left right away. I do have the issue of getting left which I mentioned in the 8i work. 

 

 I'm not sure how much it'll help but it felt good to either experiment or work on specific shots for a change. A lot less frustrating then when I work on a drill and nothing seems to be going right, lol.

[SNIPERBBB]

4 hours ago, bortass said:

My divots were close to the center of my chest, so I started to pay attention to shifting to the left.

Was this a change for you?

[bortass]

49 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Was this a change for you?

 I have a wider range of fat shots on the range than when I play. Sometimes I hit the ground well behind the ball, closer to my trail foot. I haven’t picked up on the relation of my chest to those divots though. 
 

The centered divot happened on a swing that felt okay and I wondered if I needed to move the low point toward by shifting to the left more. I can’t recall where the low point is supposed to be in relation to my chest though. I think I have heard that it’s closer to the left shoulder but may be mistaken.

 

I will have to try to pay better attention when I hit it heavy and see what patterns, if any, show up.

[KD1]

6 hours ago, bortass said:

A lot less frustrating then when I work on a drill and nothing seems to be going right, lol.

 

I think I've finally gotten to the point where I can shank, top, chunk, and toe an entire bucket of balls while working on a motor pattern change and be totally fine with it. The trick is to go to the range when no one else there.

[TheDeanAbides]

deleted

Edited April 26 by TheDeanAbides

[SNIPERBBB]

9 hours ago, bortass said:

 I have a wider range of fat shots on the range than when I play. Sometimes I hit the ground well behind the ball, closer to my trail foot. I haven’t picked up on the relation of my chest to those divots though. 
 

The centered divot happened on a swing that felt okay and I wondered if I needed to move the low point toward by shifting to the left more. I can’t recall where the low point is supposed to be in relation to my chest though. I think I have heard that it’s closer to the left shoulder but may be mistaken.

 

I will have to try to pay better attention when I hit it heavy and see what patterns, if any, show up.

Your low point, which isn't where the divot starts. Just needs to be in front of the ball. The start point of the divot should be no earlier than your sternum.

 

The pros low point is is 4-5 inches in front of the ball. There was a trackman study (using a 6 iron for all groups)that measured pros to 30 caps and the average for all groups was roughly at least 4 inches in front with the 30 caps actually having low points up to 7 inches in front. This was a result of them trying to get too far left. 

 

What really separates the elite pros from the 30 caps was that the variance of the low point was about an inch. The 30 caps was 3-4 inches. 

[bortass]

My low point is all over the map. I had some terrible chunks and a couple tops today. The worst chunk felt like I got my hips to the left but my torso stayed to the right. It was ugly.

 

I did have one interesting bad shot today though. I actually snap hooked my driver. I have not done that in a very long time. I am taking that as a positive because it’s something very different as far as mishits go over the last 5 years.

 

 

[bortass]

I thought of something yesterday which may be important. One type of mishit disappeared in my round Saturday. None of my iron shots were push fades that miss well right. I will almost always hit a few of those each round especially on par 3s. Looking through the shots on Arccos, I did not hit that shot with any club.

 

Driver: two penalties, one was a snap hook into left trees. The other was a pull hook into the left trees. Both went into the tree line between 100 - 130 yards off the tee. I hit a few a bit thin and topped one but they all went straight.

 

4w off the deck: bad top, then I got frustrated( it was on 18) and tried to hit 4w with the ball well above my feet. I whiffed twice, and picked up. Carded a NDB 9 on this par 5(I get two strokes on this hole).

 

Irons and wedges, the issues were all low point and hitting it fat. The ball always went fairly straight though. I think I may have hit a slight pull on one fat shot but I had the ball too far forward, it didn't look right and I swung away and did not back out. No irons shots lost to the left or right trees. I had one penalty with a wedge when I hit a layup chip too hard and it took a slope into a ditch, I don't count that as a mishit.

 

 

There were some short game issues that hurt on a few holes. I had three chips on #4. I'm in wet rough probably 15 yards from the green and the green is elevated by maybe 4 feet. I hit a 7i bump and run that was too soft and it came up a few yards short. I repeated the shot and it rolled through the green. Try again to 6 feet and two putt for a triple. I had another hole, pretty level where I just hit the bump and run a bit too hard and it went into the fringe on the far side, so two chips and a bogey.

 

Outside of the bad chips above, my short game was fine. The results of all other chips were fine. They put in in realistic distances from the hole, average proximity was 10 feet for all chips inside 25 yards. I got up and down 6 times(not always for par).

 

Putting was decent but I had 3 three putts, 25 feet, 36 feet, and 24 feet. I did offset it with 7 one putts though.

 

I am taking the round as a positive because of the difference in shot shapes. Score bit but that seems quite normal for me. I can't lie and say I was happy about sitting in the middle of the fairway with a straight forward approach for GIR and come away with a double because of chunks. Trying to shift pressure around is very new to me though, so I'm just gonna go with that, lol.

[bortass]

I hope to make it to the range this week and also grab some swing video. I did find the lanyard for the Smart Ball and will bring it with me so I can look like a goof, lol.

 

I wasn't able to do much last week and just want to mention what seems to be a big change. There are fourteen par 4s and 5s which are the driving stats in Arccos. I hit driver on twelve to thirteen of them and 4w on the rest. I am sending the ball left!

 

I hit five fairways. Eight of my nine misses were left. The single miss right was a terrible mishit with driver where I kept my weight on my trail foot and thinned it directly into the right trees immediately. The ball got about two feet off the ground and must of hit something because it was in the right rough about 105 yards off the tees.

 

Every other miss was either a pull or pull hook, so I got a bit of practice hitting from the left trees. This is a big change from my normal block/push fade it into the right trees. The changes I am trying to make seem to be doing something. I still mostly focus on the pressure shift as my swing thought when playing.

 

Hitting the ball into the left trees is costing me just as much as when I lost the ball right but I am okay with it for now. It's a change from what is normal and I take that as a good thing. I'm ignoring my score as best I can( still posting them) because my rounds are where I'm trying to figure out how to hit the ball. I know I should be going to the range a few times a week and trying to integrate the changes into my swing but it's not working out for me to do that. The one good thing is I'm playing about the same while making these changes as I did with my go left right away and OTT swing. It's not like I'm any worse than before.

[bortass]

Been a few weeks since I said anything about my progress/lack thereof. I think I have reached the spot where I'm realizing that I really don't have much to say unless I can actually show/write something of value. I have lacked the discipline that Iacas recently wrote about and the swing video I took today seems to show 0 progress. I have been trying to work on fixing my backswing w/o a ball but it doesn't seem to be taking. I feel pressure go to the right at the start of my backswing but the video doesn't look like it's happening. I have seen some ball flight changes on the course which is still the only time I hit any balls until today. A left miss is becoming more common and I though that was a sign that something had changed.

 

Here are two videos from today. The first time I've hit balls on the range in a while. The first video is just my swing with a 7i. I slowed the video to half speed. I still see the same exact flaws as before.

 

 

 

 

The second video is also with a 7i with the video slowed to half speed. In it, I am trying to feel like I push my arms straight back and get my left shoulder under my chin. I am also trying to swing slow as Iacas talks about and not full speed. I know it's irrelevant but I did seem to hit the ball better during the second video. I can easily provide the full speed versions if anyone would like to see them.

 

 

 

 

[GoGoErky]

18 minutes ago, bortass said:

The second video is also with a 7i with the video slowed to half speed. In it, I am trying to feel like I push my arms straight back and get my left shoulder under my chin

Can you explain what you mean by straight back?

 

is that down the target line or something else?

[KD1]