My Road to Improvement - 7/9/25 new swing video

[TheDeanAbides]

1 minute ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

He was trying to do the arm swing illusion thing that I mentioned. 

 

Which isn't really a "drill". It's just intended to give some sense of what the actual arm structure / width should look like... I wouldn't intend for him to try to use this to hit a ball 😉

 

That said, it looked like he tried to make step 4--move your hands laterally in line with your right armpit--and instead rotated about 15-20 degrees. So I'm not sure it got the full point across. Need to do that without turning.

 

 

I thought it might have been that. It's so much easier to translate that with a visual than written instructions.

[bortass]

50 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

You’re wrists are setting late and barely much of a set at that which is why things are braking down at the top once the weight if the club takes over.

 

there appears to be a gap between your forefinger and thumb on your right hand too.

 

are you not able to rotate your left hand a bit more inside to get to see at least 2 knuckles?

I'm spamming my own thread today it seems.

 

I see two knuckles on my left hand when I look down.

 

Below is a video of the training grip on the weighted club and me holding it and of me holding a regular 6i. I thought the right thumb should be up against the trigger finger which puts it on the side of the shaft. The molded training grip is not designed that way. Which is correct or do I need to find the Derek Zoolander School for People Who Can't Grip Well and Who Wanna Learn to Swing Well Too?

 

 

[bortass]

2 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

@bortass Have you ever gone down the arm swing illusion mega-thread rabbit hole? 

 

I ask because for a lot of people, IMHO they get their arms too pinned and deep (which causes excess right arm bend) because they fundamentally are misinterpreting how far the arms should move "across" the body in the swing. Getting through the ASI helped me truly understand the concept of width. 

 

I'd love to see you try this:

 

1. Take your normal address position.
2. Hinge the wrists ~90 degrees to raise the clubhead. 
3. Move your hands vertically 6-12 inches.
4. Move your hands laterally so they're directly in front of your right armpit, or PERHAPS your right shoulder. 
5. Turn your body to your backswing position, WITHOUT changing the relative placement of your arms to your body. 

IMHO if you do this with a camera, you're going to realize that your left arm is basically* straight, your right arm is bent less than 90 degrees, and on camera it looks like a textbook position at the top. 

 

(* Note: the left arm isn't ACTUALLY straight. If you look at AMG / Gears videos, pros are not "keeping their left arm straight" or rigid. They're flexing it, but it's just that's it's generally a limited enough amount of bend that it LOOKS straight visually.)

I messed this up again didn't I? I don't see how to move the hands to be in front of my armpit w/o moving my shoulders....

 

 

 

[GoGoErky]

18 minutes ago, bortass said:

I'm spamming my own thread today it seems.

 

I see two knuckles on my left hand when I look down.

 

Below is a video of the training grip on the weighted club and me holding it and of me holding a regular 6i. I thought the right thumb should be up against the trigger finger which puts it on the side of the shaft. The molded training grip is not designed that way. Which is correct or do I need to find the Derek Zoolander School for People Who Can't Grip Well and Who Wanna Learn to Swing Well Too?

 

 

From your video earlier today

 

from your training club

 

Your grip after the training club

 

 

to me there’s a slight difference in your initial grip especially with the left hand compared to the training club

 

then you do a good job with the left hand after and get the right hand in a bad place 

[GoGoErky]

19 minutes ago, bortass said:

I messed this up again didn't I? I don't see how to move the hands to be in front of my armpit w/o moving my shoulders....

 

 

 

I agree with dean, whatever this is I would stop doing it.

 

This is a better drill imo

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DIOsDgaR60O/?igsh=N3Y1MjZybm56dW0w

 

as is this one 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DHyEa0NOIXR/?igsh=MWx0c3dzbnIxdmZibw==

[TheDeanAbides]

21 minutes ago, bortass said:

I messed this up again didn't I? I don't see how to move the hands to be in front of my armpit w/o moving my shoulders....

 

 

 

I'll try and do a quick video of this tomorrow, dude. 

[TheDeanAbides]

1 minute ago, GoGoErky said:

I agree with dean, whatever this is I would stop doing it.

 

This is a better drill imo

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DIOsDgaR60O/?igsh=N3Y1MjZybm56dW0w

 

as is this one 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DHyEa0NOIXR/?igsh=MWx0c3dzbnIxdmZibw==

He just needs to understand what he's supposed to do. I'll get my skinny a** arms on it tomorrow. ;)

[wagolfer7]

This is so hard to watch, yet I can't seem to look away 🙂 

 

We got 3 drills, thoughts on the grip, trail arm, pelvis, trail leg and chest.  And that's just the last page and a half within 24 hours.  If this is the road to improvement to consistently break 90, you better get your helmet on.    

 

Not trying to stir the pot.  But just seems like way too much information and ideas at one time.  

  

[TheDeanAbides]

7 minutes ago, wagolfer7 said:

This is so hard to watch, yet I can't seem to look away 🙂 

 

We got 3 drills, thoughts on the grip, trail arm, pelvis, trail leg and chest.  And that's just the last page and a half within 24 hours.  If this is the road to improvement to consistently break 90, you better get your helmet on.    

 

Not trying to stir the pot.  But just seems like way too much information and ideas at one time.  

  

Whaddayamean? This is Boris the Blade! He can fix arms swing, pivot and grip all at once from the comfort of his own home, dammit!

 

Good point though. 

[getitdaily]

10 minutes ago, wagolfer7 said:

This is so hard to watch, yet I can't seem to look away 🙂 

 

We got 3 drills, thoughts on the grip, trail arm, pelvis, trail leg and chest.  And that's just the last page and a half within 24 hours.  If this is the road to improvement to consistently break 90, you better get your helmet on.    

 

Not trying to stir the pot.  But just seems like way too much information and ideas at one time.  

  

Yep. In my head, I see a Wisconsin badger football.game, end of the 3rd qtr.

[GoGoErky]

 

[bortass]

19 minutes ago, wagolfer7 said:

This is so hard to watch, yet I can't seem to look away 🙂 

 

We got 3 drills, thoughts on the grip, trail arm, pelvis, trail leg and chest.  And that's just the last page and a half within 24 hours.  If this is the road to improvement to consistently break 90, you better get your helmet on.    

 

Not trying to stir the pot.  But just seems like way too much information and ideas at one time.  

  

Yeah, train wreck in action.

 

A chunk of it is me trying to understand the feedback. One issue I have found is between what is said/written and how I interpret it. I thought @betarhoalphadelta was very clear in the steps he suggested to try to get the arms in a better place, so I could see what it looks like. I don't get step #4. That is a good microcosm for the recent spate of videos, so I can see if I can do something correctly, so if/when I ever get to that part of it, I have a better understanding of what i am trying to do/look for.

 

Now to the grip -EDIT our posts traveled past each other and I see what you shared.

26 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

From your video earlier today

 

from your training club

 

Your grip after the training club

 

 

to me there’s a slight difference in your initial grip especially with the left hand compared to the training club

 

then you do a good job with the left hand after and get the right hand in a bad place 

 Is the training club grip correct?  The video I posted earlier, top two images you posted are using the training club. My hands should be in close to the same spots each time I use it. The bottom most image is how I thought the right thumb was supposed to go which is not what that training club grip does, hence my question.

Edited April 16 by bortass

[wagolfer7]

2 minutes ago, bortass said:

Yeah, train wreck in action.

 

A chunk of it is me trying to understand the feedback. One issue I have found is between what is said/written and how I interpret it. I thought @betarhoalphadelta was very clear in the steps he suggested to try to get the arms in a better place, so I could see what it looks like. I don't get step #4. That is a good microcosm for the recent spate of videos, so I can see if I can do something correctly, so if/when I ever get to that part of it, I have a better understanding of what i am trying to do/look for.

 

Now to the grip

 Is the training club grip correct?  The video I posted earlier, top two images you posted are using the training club. My hands should be in close to the same spots each time I use it. The bottom most image is how I thought the right thumb was supposed to go which is not what that training club grip does, hence my question.

 

That's the tough part about learning golf, is correctly understanding and applying it.  I like instruction that has check-points.  Try this Padraig grip video.  If you can do the things he is showing in the video, you should have a fundamental grip.  Just make sure you can make the figure 8 movements and swing back and through without the club moving in your hands (club should still be square when you set it down after swinging back and through a few times).  That pretty much solidifies you got a good grip and you'll know your doing it right. 

 

I will bow out though.  I do not want to add another cook in the kitchen and add more ideas / thoughts to your plate.  Good luck @bortass

 

  

[GullLakeMi]

Bortass - you are good sport.  Keep grinding!

 

You should consider having 1 of the key guys here do a live video lesson.  Probably make progress at 100x the pace.

[betarhoalphadelta]

2 hours ago, bortass said:

I messed this up again didn't I? I don't see how to move the hands to be in front of my armpit w/o moving my shoulders..

 

I took a video of it in my living room... But it's over the file size that WRX accepts and I'm not exposing my living room on YouTube. 

 

If you look at an OLD YT video about the arm swing illusion, it'll get to what I'm getting at. Especially right around the 3 minute mark and the 4:30 minute mark. 

 

So maybe forget about what I asked you to do, but focus on what this means for your understanding of width? 

 

Two ways to break down the width--excessive "across" of the left arm so you can't keep the arms/hands in FRONT of you, and over-bending the left arm in an attempt to make your swing longer...

 

My $0.02 anyway, which is probably not even worth that 😂

 

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

And just to be EXTRA clear...

 

That's not a drill. That's not instruction. That's not something that applies to your particular swing. 

 

That's an understanding of how the arms are supposed to work in the golf swing. It's an understanding of what "width" actually means. It's an isolation of the arms separate from the body turn. 

 

For me... I'm an engineer. I delve WAY too deeply into some--okay most, if you ask my wife--things. I want to know them at a granular level, because that's how my brain works. For me, those deep dives help me build the mental model of the golf swing, which helps me understand how and why I need to do what I need to do. It's why I geek out on AMG stuff so much too...

 

You may not be wired the same way I am, which means this could be unnecessarily confusing info because you don't have that same deep down "need" to know it to accomplish what you want in your golf swing. 

[bortass]

7 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

And just to be EXTRA clear...

 

That's not a drill. That's not instruction. That's not something that applies to your particular swing. 

 

That's an understanding of how the arms are supposed to work in the golf swing. It's an understanding of what "width" actually means. It's an isolation of the arms separate from the body turn. 

 

For me... I'm an engineer. I delve WAY too deeply into some--okay most, if you ask my wife--things. I want to know them at a granular level, because that's how my brain works. For me, those deep dives help me build the mental model of the golf swing, which helps me understand how and why I need to do what I need to do. It's why I geek out on AMG stuff so much too...

 

You may not be wired the same way I am, which means this could be unnecessarily confusing info because you don't have that same deep down "need" to know it to accomplish what you want in your golf swing. 

Yup, we’re on the same page, my friend. I took it as just a way to understand the arms and width better. It may or may not resonate but that perfectly fine, it’s a step closer either way.

Edited April 16 by bortass

[bortass]

Today may have looked like a fiasco but something good came of it. The grip videos and conversation with @GoGoErky made me realize a mistake I made a few months ago with my right thumb.

 

I used to have my right thumb positioned like it is in the image of me holding the training club. A few months ago, I made a change based on something Monte said at last year’s(April 2024) clinic to all of us present. I misinterpreted it and moved my right thumb to the side of the grip. I made my grip worse by mistake….

 

Awesomeness!

[TheDeanAbides]

10 hours ago, bortass said:

Yeah, train wreck in action.

 

A chunk of it is me trying to understand the feedback. One issue I have found is between what is said/written and how I interpret it. I thought @betarhoalphadelta was very clear in the steps he suggested to try to get the arms in a better place, so I could see what it looks like. I don't get step #4. That is a good microcosm for the recent spate of videos, so I can see if I can do something correctly, so if/when I ever get to that part of it, I have a better understanding of what i am trying to do/look for.

 

Now to the grip -EDIT our posts traveled past each other and I see what you shared.

 Is the training club grip correct?  The video I posted earlier, top two images you posted are using the training club. My hands should be in close to the same spots each time I use it. The bottom most image is how I thought the right thumb was supposed to go which is not what that training club grip does, hence my question.

I'm going to show you an easier was to feel the correct backswing later. 

[TheDeanAbides]

i just saw the DTL, Boris. Still too much forearm roll. As soon as you roll your left forearm excessively it's impossible to create width. Try it without a club to see. You roll that forearm and the right elbow has no choice but to collapse.

[bortass]

5 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

i just saw the DTL, Boris. Still too much forearm roll. As soon as you roll your left forearm excessively it's impossible to create width. Try it without a club to see. You roll that forearm and the right elbow has no choice but to collapse.

Thanks, I have had that forearm roll issue forever. It’s not an easy habit to break…

[getitdaily]

Do you enjoy playing? 

Do you enjoy making swing changes? 

 

What is your ultimate intent for making swing changes?

 

Edited April 17 by getitdaily

[TheDeanAbides]

1 hour ago, bortass said:

Thanks, I have had that forearm roll issue forever. It’s not an easy habit to break…

That and the OTT, which you do on every swing even in slow motion.

[KD1]

20 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

@bortass Have you ever gone down the arm swing illusion mega-thread rabbit hole? 

 

I ask because for a lot of people, IMHO they get their arms too pinned and deep (which causes excess right arm bend) because they fundamentally are misinterpreting how far the arms should move "across" the body in the swing. Getting through the ASI helped me truly understand the concept of width. 

 

I'd love to see you try this:

 

1. Take your normal address position.
2. Hinge the wrists ~90 degrees to raise the clubhead. 
3. Move your hands vertically 6-12 inches.
4. Move your hands laterally so they're directly in front of your right armpit, or PERHAPS your right shoulder. 
5. Turn your body to your backswing position, WITHOUT changing the relative placement of your arms to your body. 

IMHO if you do this with a camera, you're going to realize that your left arm is basically* straight, your right arm is bent less than 90 degrees, and on camera it looks like a textbook position at the top. 

 

(* Note: the left arm isn't ACTUALLY straight. If you look at AMG / Gears videos, pros are not "keeping their left arm straight" or rigid. They're flexing it, but it's just that's it's generally a limited enough amount of bend that it LOOKS straight visually.)

 

He could try it with a little jingle

https://www.instagram.com/p/C6q84V9xVao/

[bortass]

1 hour ago, KD1 said:

 

He could try it with a little jingle

https://www.instagram.com/p/C6q84V9xVao/

That actually helps me understand it a bit better!

[bortass]

I have prepared myself for more abuse! I am joking btw, seriously. I get that yesterday looked like a train wreck but I found it very helpful.  My video setup skills sucked a bit today, the phone was too far back, so the clubhead gets cut off at the top. I don't think that is a big deal though.

 

Now to set the stage:

• 6i with a better grip but it was fun doing it with the TS Smart ball between my arms since I misplaced the lanyard for it in the move.
• TS Smart Ball to try to help me keep my arms connected, I am not saying I used the smart ball because I was directed to. I have had it for a few years and thought maybe I should give it a shot.
• Try to shift to the right at the start of the swing.
• Try to lift the arms up versus rotating the forearms.
• Try to set the wrists sooner

 

Goal:

• To get feedback on if this is any better. I am just trying to see if this is closer to where I need to be. 
• Show off my very stylish haircut(not)!

Notes:

• I was thinking about a bunch of stuff and this is not perfect. I'm okay with the lack of perfection.
• Flame retardant suit and pitcher of margaritas are prepped to help me handle the feedback.

 

My thoughts:

• I think I did better this time but I've been wrong a lot lately.
• I still come up a bit when my left shoulder tries to wedge itself in my double chin and instead gets up by my cheek cuz homey don't play that. 
• I didn't drop the ball!

 

 

 

[KD1]

Sounds like you're trying to do an awful lot of things at once. I thought I saw a hint of hip movement to the right though so.. *fist bump*! Keep going

 

Re. lifting the arms: We're probably getting ahead of our selves but I'd be careful with that by not doing it too early. @getitdaily mentioned it on page 83 that you're already pushing your arms away from you early in the takeaway.

 

P2:

 

Edited April 17 by KD1

[bortass]

6 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Do you enjoy playing? 

Do you enjoy making swing changes? 

 

What is your ultimate intent for making swing changes?

 

I really love playing.

 

Swing changes are a bit of a mixed bag. I'd rather play then practice. I do enjoy most practice that I do. I wish I didn't need to work on swing changes but I really need to if I want to try to get to where I want to go.

 

My ultimate intent on making swing changes is to play better. My ball striking is my biggest weakness based on strokes gained from the 483 rounds I have in Arccos since early 2020. Par 3 tee shots and all approaches over 50 yards are my biggest weakness. That has not changed at all, it's just not quite as bad now as 5 years ago. My best rounds are driven more by my approach game then anything else. If swing improvements bleed into my tee shots on par 4s and 5s, that's great too, but that area isn't my galring issue.

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, KD1 said:

Sounds like you're trying to do an awful lot of things at once. I thought I saw a hint of hip movement to the right though so.. *fist bump*! Keep going

 

Re. lifting the arms: We're probably getting ahead of our selves but I'd be careful with that by not doing it too early. @getitdaily mentioned it on page 83 that you're already pushing your arms away from you early in the takeaway.

 

P2:

 

I hear ya, seriously. If I do too much, I'll get no where. 

[TheDeanAbides]

Sorry that I didn't get a video to demonstrate the arm swing illusion. I think it's too much info for now, tbh. I think your latest video looks pretty good. Needs a bit more flattening of the left wrist, and I'd like to see DTL, but half decent.

[bortass]

16 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Sorry that I didn't get a video to demonstrate the arm swing illusion. I think it's too much info for now, tbh. I think your latest video looks pretty good. Needs a bit more flattening of the left wrist, and I'd like to see DTL, but half decent.

All good. There's been a bunch of stuff brought up in the last day. My main focus still needs to be the pelvis/hips and making sure I do not mess up my grip again. Hopefully I can tackle some of the arm stuff this summer but I am not sure how long it will take to improve how my hips move. The OTT move is probably gonna stay with me until I can get rid of the inside take way from rolling my forearms.