Patrick Reed's lawyer tried to silence Brandel Chamblee (NO POLITICS)

[Titleist 670]

If you're only going to say that Reed cheated based on his own admission, then no evidence will satisfy you, because he's never going to admit to it.

Patrick said the camera angle was bad and he was farther behind the ball during his practice swing, which the video shows is not true. I've said this a million times, but someone please explain that if he was a foot behind the ball and didn't impact his lie on his practice swing, why does he stand in the exact same spot when he actually hits the ball? This is obvious based on the video. And the video isn't even at ground level where depth perception is completely altered. People are just running with that narrative, and I'm not sure why.

I'm also not sure why I am supposed to believe that a guy who inspected and circled the ball looking at his lie, put his club behind the ball, swept sand away twice, and is a professional golfer had no idea what he was going on in that situation and didn't intentionally improve his lie.

It's as laughable to me as people who believed Lance Armstrong wasn't on PED's because he said so and he hadn't failed a test. That was a good one - so a guy in a sport full of elite athletes who are doping is just crushing them without any issue? Never believed that either, and laughed when he did his whole confession tour and at the people who were actually shocked.

 

[DFS PFD]

Even if we give him the benefit of the doubt and he's standing behind the ball, he's clearly improved his ability to play the ball by shallowing the sand immediately behind his ball by his own admission.

[bladehunter]

But that’s the point. We just disagree. You aren’t correct and neither am I. Why ? Because we don’t know.

 

I can flip your statement around and say “ if youre just going to keep saying look at the video , it’s conclusive , he cheated I know it “. Then there’s no convincing you either to see reason. And I understand that stance. I don’t expect to change your mind and you really shouldn’t expect to change mine. I just can’t wait until the next rules gaffe , it will be interesting to see who yells cheat or not.

[Sean2]

I agree. I can't say definitively whether he cheated or not. And, if one is going to use the video as being conclusive of his cheating, you could flip that and say the video is conclusive of his not cheating because no one would cheat knowing a camera is recording their every move.

[sdandrea]

This thread reminds me of two of my high school buddies who used to argue about whether or not this one certain female classmate of ours was attractive. They would go on and on ad nauseam with their opinions stated as facts. I used to roll my eyes just like I'm doing when I read some of these posts. Reed is the only person on the planet that knows if he cheated.

[RP40]

So I guess we're now down to making the "he can't be convicted of murder since he didn't admit to it" argument.

 

[MtlJeff]

I wish that rule existed for public nudity!

[ALIF]

Come on man, everyone knows that OJ is innocent!

[Titleist99]

LOL!....If we give him the benefit of the doubt we'd take his word when he said that he was unaware of the excavation….LOL!

[Titleist99]

LOL!...unless you are clairvoyant you have no idea what was on his mind...… I hate the fact that you're making me defend Patrick Reed...

[scotee]

For some reason this song keeps circling my mind:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eVtbXaGO8E

[Schley]

No surpise now that he is estranged from his family. I can only imagine him harboring something against his family when he was 10 and has been crying about it for 15 years now. If he wasn't a golfer he would just be another weird relative to avoid and probably good riddance. Showing his true colors over time.

[BIG STU]

I think Blade and myself had a discussion on the line you stated earlier in this thread---- I would have proceeded exactly like you stated---- When I started playing professionally and in big money matches my old man who was a club pro and former tour player ( some) warned me to always " Square my actions with my opponents and to err on the side of caution and to always keep myself above approach" I can remember an incident on one of the Mini Tours I played in. I had a sorta a hanging lie a bad spot. I called my playing opponent over and told him what was up and for him to watch while I hit to see if the ball moved while I addressed it or attempted to hit it. I had to play that shot that day like a bunker shot. He was more than glad to observe and thanked me for my honesty. BTW the ball did not move and I did advance it. For me my integrity is worth more than all the money in the world

[Vindog]

Nobody know what his family dynamic was like. Maybe they're jerks and only come out now because he's got money. Obviously, there is something there, that both sides are struggling with. Maybe he is the way he is because of his family. Maybe this is learned behavior.

 

Point is nobody really knows. It's all weird, man

[TimK1]

This is a problem I have with the mainstream media and why I have not watched it on purpose in seven years. Is it Chamblee or the golf channel job to report the facts or give opinions? Reporting that Reed was giving a 2 stroke penalty for improving his lie is a fact and should be reported.

Chamblee giving his opinion or what he personally thinks about it is not news or a fact. Does he speak for the Golf Channel when he says these things?

Reporting the news and giving personal opinions are two different things. Seems like we have forgotten this concept in America, that personal opinions are not news or facts and should be kept out of the show. Is this a news show or a personal opinion tabloid show?

Chamblee should shut the F up on the golf central broadcasts about what he personally thinks. There are other forums for him to state his own opinion or personal feelings.

[Shilgy]

You are being Waaay to logical and fair about this. Don’t you know this is golfwrx where we can say anything and it should be regarded as gospel truth? Lol, for the record I agree with all you said.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Chamblee is paid to offer opinion and analysis. Sure he can be over the top but he's doing his job.

[TimK1]

I understand but this is how mainstream media has changed. It used to be that they just reported the facts. You never offered your personal opinions about anything. If you did it was offered somewhere else. If that is the case that he is paid to offer personal opinions then it is the very reason I don't watch those shows or really any News outlet. It is mostly personal opinions and an agenda

[TimK1]

My personal opinion about Reed.

I give give two shits. I'm not playing against him. It does not effect my life in anyway. The only people who have a right to get in his face are his peers who have to play against him or the tour officials.

[cxx]

Remember when McCarron was calling Phil a cheater at every opportunity for using the Ping Eye2 lob wedge? He shut up in a hurry when the Phil's lawyers got involved. Of course McCarron hadn't made it to the senior tour and had won next to nothing at that time.

There were quite a few times where video showed rules problems for Tiger. Most of those were handled deferentially.

Reed just rubs some people the wrong way. Reed's lawyers will tamp down Chamblee's inflammatory comments. I realize that he believes inflammatory comments are his job, but calling someone a cheater is over the top and deserves a slap down.

[MtlJeff]

I said it earlier but i just think media caters now to the 5-10% of people that account for 90% of the clicks.

If you have facebook for example, you might have 400 friends, but your wall is always going to be the same 5 people linking dozens of articles/columns a day about how the world is ending for whatever reason. I really believe that it's a very small percentage of people that make up a majority of clicks. And these people are likely to have the most passionate and extreme views. The rest of us just get caught in the middle

If you watched Reed do what he did and it made you mad and want to start threads online about it, that's the type of person Brandel is going after. Not the guys who is like "man that's iffy but whatever he got caught", that guy doesn't click on 100 links a day because he doesn't care as much.The guy who clicks on 100 links wants to hear "THAT MAN IS A CHEAT PEOPLE!!!" because he is the guy who thinks he has to right every wrong and as be the wokest person of his peer group. This is the guy at a party who dominates every discussion (if you ever watched the Office, they called Oscar the "Actually" guy....because he always corrected everyone by saying "Actually....". We all have friends like that. This is who media targets now

I am all for media outlets being sued if it will make them at least be more responsible for how they phrase things , especially when making definitive statements about people. I am fine with Opinion people too....no issue, just say "I think " at least

 

[Hawkeye77]

Next to nothing? Over $13 million and 3 wins. I'd say at that time he'd won more than "next to nothing".

 

I didn't care for his approach, but Phil wasn't doing anything illegal, wasn't violating a rule. One of those "spirit of the rules things" and boy were some on here jumping on the bandwagon just to get a piece of Phil.

 

Not at all similar to this situation. Reed violated a rule. Got penalized. Seems like the thing that keeps going round and round (aside from the noise about everything else in his past) is whether he was aware he was moving sand and, if so, his state of mind when moving it. Every time his name gets brought up since that tournament every thread turns into the same thing for days on end. It's wrx!

 

At some point don't you just have to agree to disagree? Either view is an opinion and it's going to continue to be that person's opinion. I don't believe after x number of years of lies in the sand there was any way he didn't perceive he was moving sand (still possible he didn't). I conclude (since he never said he was confused about the real rules in play in a way that made sense) his ham handed explanation later suggested he did it purposefully - which for me suggests intent to violate the rule and expecting not to get caught, and there is the video of something similar at another event, FWIW. All of that could be 100% wrong - no question.

 

Would I feel different if it was a player with a different context (and I'm not talking about college or his parents)? I might, freely admit it. I've heard some fine things about him from people that truly have interacted with him. For me, his conduct post-Ryder Cup put him over the edge with me in terms of any rooting interest. Maybe that was just more indication he just can't or won't perceive he needs to or can take responsibility for his own actions - I DON'T KNOW!

 

Okay - hoping we hit 10 degrees today and actually watching a pool tournament on Facebook to pass the time until there is some live golf to watch, lol.

 

 

 

 

[bscinstnct]

Reed was caught on camera shoveling sand right behind his ball which improved his lie.

 

Thats a fact, right? That’s why he got the penalty.

 

Reed explains,

 

I accept that,” said Reed after a nearly-five-minute discussion with rules officials. “It wasn't because of any intent. I felt like I was far enough away, but because of what we saw…”

 

Then we see the video and many are like,

How could he think he was “far enough away”?

 

I can see how many are not inclined to believe him at all.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/pgatour/status/1203111882808270848?ref_url=https%3a%2f%2fwww.golfchannel.com%2fnews%2fpatrick-reed-penalized-two-shots-improving-lie-sand-hero-world-challenge

 

 

 

 

[jmck]

Do you want the Golf Channel to be able to exist 24/7/365 or not? Do you think there are enough daily "facts" in the golf world to fill up all that air time? Is that what you're expecting of them?

This pining for the good ol days of Edward R Murrow gently spoonfeeding a nation their daily half hour of Just The Facts M'am is ridiculous. Those days are long gone, are not coming back, and it's not Brandel Chamblee's fault.

Today, just today, we get to watch several hours of the Euro Tour from South Africa, several hours of the PGA Junior League from the Bahamas, and several hours of the big boys playing in Hawaii. This is the freaking GOLDEN AGE for golf on TV and all people do is complain about Brandel. It's eyeballs on the commercials scattered among Brandel rants that pays for that 12 hours of live golf. THAT"S Brandel's "agenda," doing his part to put eyeballs on the screen 24/7/365. Reed is just more grist for the content mill, and no amount of hand wringing over "facts" vs "opinions" is going to shut that mill down, let alone a letter from Reed's lawyers. That's just laughable, and, again, more grist for the mill.

[Hawkeye77]

And yes, why the hand wringing about what sports broadcasters are saying? They aren't Edward R. Murrow or Walter Cronkite. They are there to add "color", weigh in, provide perspective - love 'em, hate 'em --- great, but why all the straw man arguments about the demise of real journalism.

 

I love what traditional journalism used to be, but studio hosts on sports shows have never been intended to be journalists or reporters and they aren't, nothing new, we all know that, just something way more widespread across all media.

[LeoLeo99]

I don't see what Phil did vs what Reed did as comparable. They both should have been DQ'd for flagrant fouls but Phil wasn't trying to cheat. It's uplifting reading all these posts that people either don't cheat or don't play with cheaters. Having played against unscrupulous folks when I was a teenager, you learn to watch your opponent and learn their tricks. Flicking sand is a definite cheater move.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

That's exactly it. The facts can only fill so much time. If it wasn't for opinion and analysis there wouldn't be enough content. None of BC's opinions are disguised as news.

[MtlJeff]

In Reed's case it probably makes no difference right now since his rep is pretty damaged

But I think its relevant to things like player endorsements etc. Calling someone a cheater can affect their income . The example of Phil using the Eye2 wedges is a bit better for this. If some prominent commentator was calling him a cheater over and over that could affect public perception and eventually endorsement dollars. I dont think that is right. Not to mention it could lead to more instances like that happened in Australia, like actual violence or threats against a person

I think the casual fan just hears the soundbites and doesnt really look into things.

[bulls9999]

I'm still not clear on what Reed was saying what happened in the Bahamas. Did he say it was the 'camera angle' that made it looked like sand was pushed aside? or did he mean the wedge head blocked his view of the sand being pushed but the camera angle allowed it to be readily seen (whereas he's saying he didn't see it or feel it)? Because evidently, he agreed with the official when they re-viewed the video.

Has anyone reconstructed the view looking down at a wedge whether it was possible that his view was obstructed from seeing the sand being pushed?

Imo, that was a bunch of sand, and can't believe he couldn't feel it.

[Titleist99]

LOL!......Then we'll see who has selective outrage.....LOL!