Why do I hit steel shafted driver farther and straighter?

[tthomasgolfer605]

I didn't say it was for everyone. If your BS theory was true of gaining 80 yards off the tee I'd be on the long drive tour.

[tthomasgolfer605]

Maybe so. I need to find a fitter who know what their doing and do it outdoors. Probably going to stick with my driver though.

[rgk5]

Then why bother with the fitting? Seems like a total waste of time for you and the fitter.

[tthomasgolfer605]

If I see some gains then I'll buy one.

[smoochybooches]

”fitters” are no longer needed. Trackman literally does the fitting for you on each and every shot. once your clubhead speed and attack angle are identified, there is an optimal launch angle and spin rate for that shot. You hit different driver shaft/head combinations until you are within that zone. Couldn’t be easier and you no longer have to trust some bozo. You just CAN’T do it indoor though, cuz Trackman don’t work indoor

[BottleCap]

No reason to go back to graphite

[MadGolfer76]

Steel shafted drivers are not as big a deal as people think. Even with modern heads.

[nsxguy]

Starting out with the "marketing hype" comment it was pretty clear nobody here was going to convince you of anything.

Accuracy I can believe as your give your handicap as "Pro". And as you've been playing that X-100 steel shaft for so long you most certainly must have everything grooved for that club so I am not in the least surprised at you having difficulty switching to graphite.

But longer ? Virtually zero chance you can swing a much heavier club with a much smaller sweetspot faster than a current driver. As I mentioned, more accurate ? Maybe, because you're used to it. More consistent ? Sure, same-same. But longer ? Let's just say "skeptical".

Maybe you CAN be a long drive competitor ? Who knows ? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[BottleCap]

Just because most folks cant, doesn’t mean TThomas can’t.

[nsxguy]

You're absolutely right,,,,,,,, but I'm from Missouri,,,,,,,,,,,,

[tthomasgolfer605]

I ran this by a great teacher and former tour player. This was his response.

"You are most likely moving your original driver more from your core and feeling a certain heaviness in the clubhead. With the lighter club, you are most likely just rotating your pivot at the same rate.... might even be slowing down so you can feel the lighter head.

Since you can't feel the lighter head as well, you can't feel the clubhead as well through the strike. Light = less feel.

So think of it this way... same RPM's but now striking the ball with less mass. Less distance and less accuracy.

So to hit the ball farther, you have to essentially completely change your swing from a pivot driven rotational swing to a slappy disconected arm swing.

[BottleCap]

that sounds right, lighter club = arm swing, heavier club = body swing

[chipa]

I bought an Acer Mini Driver and put a $5 Apollo steel shaft in it which I tipped 2.5" more than recommended to get to SX and the clubhead speed is up to 105 with a 42.5 inch shaft. It is faster than I'm able to get with my driver at 100 mph with an 88 grams shaft of 43.5" for some reason no doubt due to poor mechanics but I also lift heavy weights. I'm now going to reshaft the driver and replace the lightweight steel shafts in my irons.

[betarhoalphadelta]

I've never found a graphite-shafted driver I can hit. Granted, a lot of that is because I'm not a great golfer (as my profile shows, 23 cap). But quite literally I've tried swinging graphite drivers, and I've tried swinging steel drivers, and the graphite models feel wrong in my hands, so I don't hit them as far or as straight as heavier steel-shafted driver.

 

This goes all the way back to high school and college, when the best driver I hit was an old persimmon model. I found a Mizuno graphite shafted driver in the late 90s and was excited for a graphite club--couldn't hit it for squat. 

 

I got fitted as a gift from my parents after college, in late 2001. The fitter basically told me I didn't need graphite for speed, so my current driver is that one; a normal-sized head with a steel shaft. CHS has never been my problem (not bragging; I've got plenty of other problems on the golf course). I didn't know my swing weight on the irons he built for me, but when I recently got a LW built the fitter measured my PW as E4, and I did the simple "club weight and balance point" calculation for my 7i and the swing weight was E0. Part of this is length--my irons are long because I'm 6'5", so my 5i is 39.5". But clearly what the fitter built for me in 2001 took into account my feedback, where swinging high-swingweight clubs felt right to me. 

 

I think for me, it all comes down to tempo. A driver that light feels like I'm swinging air. Maybe my top swing speed is higher with graphite because it's lighter, and maybe 1 out of 20 drives will be farther than my best drives with steel, but those other 19 my contact is going to be so poor that I can't trust my swing because I can't feel the club.

 

We'll see what happens later this year--I plan on getting fit again and replacing my whole bag. But my guess is that if I end up with graphite, it's going to be one of the heavier graphite options on the market rather than one of the lighter.

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

On 1/20/2020 at 11:38 PM, tthomasgolfer605 said:

I'm convinced that the newest equipment is mostly marketing hype. I've been using X-100's in all my clubs for many years. My driver had a weird sound to it and then realized something was broken inside and had to say goodbye . I thought I should get some new tech so I got fitted at club champion for a Titliest 917 D3 with a 70 gram X shaft last year. Numbers were good then I get on the course and it didn't nearly perform as well as the simulator suggested. So I bought the same head I used to have and paired it up with and X-100 shaft at 43 1/2 inches. The head is 360 cc with a 54 degree lie angle. I got all my distance back and my accuracy was way better. The guy I was paired with who was a low handicap player admitted after the round that he thought to himself. "Who does this guy think he is with a steel shaft?" I was 30 yards past him all day in the fairway and he was ballooning his brand new $300 shaft to the right on a lot of holes. He hit my driver and hit a low dart dead straight and couldn't comprehend why it performed better than his club. If I get a little quick with the graphite shaft it's smother hook city but my steel shaft hangs in there and hit a heel cut. Has anyone went through something like this?

 

I did, and my son did as well.

The culprit in our cases was due to badly fit shafts. Most fitters assume you swing smoothly and slower than you think, which to be fair is true nearly all the time.

 

Your X100 also has far less torque than any graphite shaft.

 

If you have the strength and swing speed, then you’re likely better off with exactly what you have today. My son uses a 73gm stiff Diamana, but end up using his 3W with a relatively expensive Diamana 70gm XStiff shaft. It’s got a lot of specifications printed all over it and he carries it the same distances as his driver. His drives look a little spinnier, but he gets decent distances all the same.

 

In my case, I’m getting older and the graphite woods work just fine.

 

Stick with what works best, and the lower torque likely makes your shots much more consistent too.

[betarhoalphadelta]

Just measured my driver with the simple club weight and fulcrum swing weight estimator, since I don't have a swing weight scale. 

 

367 gram static weight and a fulcrum about 31 13/16" from the butt end comes up with a swing weight of E0. Similar to my irons.

 

As mentioned, this is 2001 tech. KZG CH-1 head, Dynalite S100 shaft. Overall length (not sure I'm measuring correctly, trying to go from butt end of the grip to right where the heel meets the sole) of right around 44". 

 

I realize that's not very similar to most drivers on the market today, but it just feels right. 

 

@tthomasgolfer605 What is the swing weight of your irons? What is the swing weight of this driver with the X100? 

[cardoustie]

Try a 95 g graphite driver shaft.  That’s what I used to do.  Speeder 952x.

 

feel of steel weight with benefits of graphite

[tthomasgolfer605]

33 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

Just measured my driver with the simple club weight and fulcrum swing weight estimator, since I don't have a swing weight scale. 

 

367 gram static weight and a fulcrum about 31 13/16" from the butt end comes up with a swing weight of E0. Similar to my irons.

 

As mentioned, this is 2001 tech. KZG CH-1 head, Dynalite S100 shaft. Overall length (not sure I'm measuring correctly, trying to go from butt end of the grip to right where the heel meets the sole) of right around 44". 

 

I realize that's not very similar to most drivers on the market today, but it just feels right. 

 

@tthomasgolfer605 What is the swing weight of your irons? What is the swing weight of this driver with the X100? 

D4 in both.

 

[tthomasgolfer605]

21 minutes ago, cardoustie said:

Try a 95 g graphite driver shaft.  That’s what I used to do.  Speeder 952x.

 

feel of steel weight with benefits of graphite

I've tried several graphite shafts with different heads. I judge the distance/accuracy on the course over time since I play a lot more than being on the range. Graphite plus 460cc equals trouble for me in the long run. It's something that started in late 90's. Tried the new tech, always reverted back to X-100. Another thing which may be mental, is the lie angles are ridiculously upright for me with the newer drivers. My eyes like to see the heel and toe level with the ground with all clubs. 

[tthomasgolfer605]

Not to gloat or anything. A guy I was playing with last summer  wondered why I hit steel in my woods. There was a short 310yd Par 4 which was a about 15mph downwind. I hit 2 iron over the green and he understood after that. Then his game went to crap because he started swing for the fences. 😆

[QuigleyDU]

Ha.. 1990 called and wants its driver back.. 

 

 

[freowho]

On 1/27/2020 at 6:33 PM, tthomasgolfer605 said:

I ran this by a great teacher and former tour player. This was his response.

"You are most likely moving your original driver more from your core and feeling a certain heaviness in the clubhead. With the lighter club, you are most likely just rotating your pivot at the same rate.... might even be slowing down so you can feel the lighter head.

Since you can't feel the lighter head as well, you can't feel the clubhead as well through the strike. Light = less feel.

So think of it this way... same RPM's but now striking the ball with less mass. Less distance and less accuracy.

So to hit the ball farther, you have to essentially completely change your swing from a pivot driven rotational swing to a slappy disconected arm swing.

This is correct. I'm a big bloke with a body swing and off the shelf clubs feel like toothpicks. I can't make the ball go anywhere. The weight of the club is the most important thing in golf. It's to do with balance and has nothing to do with speed or muscle. I can't bench press very much but can move heavy furniture no problem. The sweet spot for me seems to be full length club with around 85g graphite. I have more trouble getting the irons right. Fitters always want to recommend half inch over but it's not the length helping me hit it better, it's the weight. The problem is I then have a 7 iron head on a 6 iron shaft and it spins like a wedge. 30 years ago the clubs were too heavy for most people and It's now gone too far the other way.

[nsxguy]

On 1/26/2020 at 5:17 AM, tthomasgolfer605 said:

I didn't say it was for everyone. If your BS theory was true of gaining 80 yards off the tee I'd be on the long drive tour.

 

So HIS story is a bunch of nonsense but yours is true ?

 

That about right ?

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

40 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

So HIS story is a bunch of nonsense but yours is true ?

 

That about right ?

Gaining 60 yards switching shafts is a bit of a push. I’d think many here are embellishing their facts for argument sake?

 

In general, high swing speeds are very difficult to fit clubs to.

[nsxguy]

On 1/26/2020 at 3:49 AM, ShallowbutDeadly said:

Honestly, I'm glad it works for you but it sounds like a big load of BS to me. Ever notice that no tour players use steel shafted drivers? You think if your theory was right there wouldn't be guys wanting the accuracy and performance improvement?

When I switched out many years ago from a 43.5 steel to a graphite, I instantly gained 30 yards. Now I'm 30 yards up from that with my Epic Flash SZ. So I was about 220 with steel and now I'm 280.

If you are ballooning your graphite shafted driver, you were either poorly fit or you need to see a swing coach.

 

41 minutes ago, Lincoln_Arcadia said:

Gaining 60 yards switching shafts is a bit of a push. I’d think many here are embellishing their facts for argument sake?

 

In general, high swing speeds are very difficult to fit clubs to.

 

Well, I have to assume this (first quote) is the post the OP was referring. He seems to prefer not quoting others.

 

So, not just a shaft change from steel to graphite but a head change as well.

 

That said, the choices are

 

a) Picked up a ton of distance going from a heavy steel shaft to a lighter graphite one.

 

OR

 

b) Picked up a ton of distance going from a lightweight graphite shaft to a much heavier steel one.

 

The formula for kinetic energy (which I'm told is the correct one) is e=1/2mv2.

 

Note it is the v (velocity) that is squared/multiplied by itself.

 

So the major part of the formula is club head speed.

 

Now I've gone from a 60 to 70 gram shafts and the difference in weight, and therefore club head speed is noticeable.

 

I'm guessing that no mater how strong someone is going from 60 or 70 weight graphite to a 125 gram steel shaft will slow said swing speed a fair bit regardless of how much better the body is working to deliver the club head.

 

I expect the OP didn't mishit ALL his drives with the lighter shaft,,,,,, nor is he flushing every drive with his new steel shaft and smaller head.

 

But who knows ? Maybe that's exactly what he's doing,,,,,,,,,,,,

Edited February 15, 2021 by nsxguy

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

41 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

 

Well, I have to assume this (first quote) is the post the OP was referring. He seems to prefer not quoting others.

 

So, not just a shaft change from steel to graphite but a head change as well.

 

That said, the choices are

 

a) Picked up a ton of distance going from a heavy steel shaft to a lighter graphite one.

 

OR

 

b) Picked up a ton of distance going from a lightweight graphite shaft to a much heavier steel one.

 

The formula for kinetic energy (which I'm told is the correct one) is e=1/2mv2.

 

Note it is the v (velocity) that is squared/multiplied by itself.

 

So the major part of the formula is club head speed.

 

Now I've gone from a 60 to 70 gram shafts and the difference in weight, and therefore club head speed is noticeable.

 

I'm guessing that no mater how strong someone is going from 60 or 70 weight graphite to a 125 gram steel shaft will slow said swing speed a fair bit regardless of how much better the body is working to deliver the club head.

 

I expect the OP didn't mishit ALL his drives with the lighter shaft,,,,,, nor is he flushing every drive with his new steel shaft and smaller head.

 

But who knows ? Maybe that's exactly what he's doing,,,,,,,,,,,,

We can only make assumptions at this point.

 

My only contribution was that my son at 16 needed a steel shaft to tame his swing speed to 110 and the X100 steel kept his balls on the fairway. A curmudgeonly old club fitter recommended we do that until he fully developed in size. LOL. Now that he’s more or less full height, we’ve moved him to a 73gm driver and a 70gm 3W. He carries both 290 to 300 with the occasional rocket from his driver. His transition and backswing are much smoother now.

 

Although I swing 106 on average (104 to 108 typically), a stock graphite 56gm on the M2 driver and S300 on my P760 work fine. In fact, the S300 generate a very low flight so I might switch to R400 or R300. My swing is markedly different with woods and irons.

 

Every person is different, and my guess is the OP swings pretty hard. I’ve seen a hard swing first hand in my son, and steel seemed to help.

[phizzy30]

On 1/21/2020 at 9:04 AM, glk said:

1998 Average drive 272 accuracy 70% ( highest ever btw). 2018. 295. 60%. Would you trade 20+ yards for 10% less accuracy?

I would in a heart beat.  Bomb and gouge.  That's the game I play and so do the guys on tour.  Much rather hit a 9 iron out of the rough vs. a 6 iron from the fairway.  I'm much more accurate with the shorter iron in. 

[baudi]

OP could try a nunchuk shaft with a 400 cc head. JDM heads have flatter lies in general.

Per 10 gram weight I reckon 1-1.5 mph chs gain/loss. This may differ per player. For consistency, measure MOI of the club.  
 Btw not too long ago Garcia played a px in his 3wood.  

Edited February 15, 2021 by baudi

[chipa]

12 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

 

Well, I have to assume this (first quote) is the post the OP was referring. He seems to prefer not quoting others.

 

So, not just a shaft change from steel to graphite but a head change as well.

 

That said, the choices are

 

a) Picked up a ton of distance going from a heavy steel shaft to a lighter graphite one.

 

OR

 

b) Picked up a ton of distance going from a lightweight graphite shaft to a much heavier steel one.

 

The formula for kinetic energy (which I'm told is the correct one) is e=1/2mv2.

 

Note it is the v (velocity) that is squared/multiplied by itself.

 

So the major part of the formula is club head speed.

 

Now I've gone from a 60 to 70 gram shafts and the difference in weight, and therefore club head speed is noticeable.

 

I'm guessing that no mater how strong someone is going from 60 or 70 weight graphite to a 125 gram steel shaft will slow said swing speed a fair bit regardless of how much better the body is working to deliver the club head.

 

I expect the OP didn't mishit ALL his drives with the lighter shaft,,,,,, nor is he flushing every drive with his new steel shaft and smaller head.

 

But who knows ? Maybe that's exactly what he's doing,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

With all due respect that's not my recent personal experience that I posted. I was 5 mph less with my graphite driver than with my steel shaft. Plus the steel shaft was 1" shorter.

[chipa]

9 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

I would in a heart beat.  Bomb and gouge.  That's the game I play and so do the guys on tour.  Much rather hit a 9 iron out of the rough vs. a 6 iron from the fairway.  I'm much more accurate with the shorter iron in. 

 

20 yards is a at most 2 clubs or 1 and a half. Also, depending on the tees one plays from the distance advantage isn't always an advantage. My course is short if I bomb it out there with the driver at 280-300 I'm generally w/in 100 yards on the par 4's. I don't know if that is an advantage over being at 130 with a normal PW.