Interesting read from Geoff Ogilvy: golf has "dumbed (him) down."

[bladehunter]

Disagree on this particular topic.

 

and it’s easy to prove.

 

swap from the easy clubs back in time and quickly you see the difference. Doesn’t always mean score changes much. But you have to play differently. You can’t play the same when you can’t go straight and over something. You can’t putt the same when you have to hit the middle of the putter. Or if the greens aren’t perfect. He’s correct. The game is less artist and more point and shoot. That’s very hard for the average AM to swallow since they still can’t go straight or up and over now or before. But doesnt make it less true . That’s what he’s saying. That combo of clubs and conditions have made it easier to play . Very simple point. Hard to say it isn’t true. Didn’t say game was easy. Said ER. Easier.

[jholz]

It is impossible to deny that the PGA Tour sets up courses to encourage a particular result or discourage things they don't want to deal with. Most of the time, they want low scores and long drives. They also want to cut down on players complaining about course conditions. So, most of the time, they set up courses and rules to encourage that kind of play and eliminate complaining.

 

The one time of year they don't want that (i.e. the U.S. Open) they set up the course differently - scores get higher and all you hear is players complaining about the course conditions.

[tacklingdummy]

It would be entertaining to watch the pros play on varying conditions (like public tracks) every week with very different green speeds and different bunker conditions. It would really show who has the most shots and is most adaptable.

[storm3]

He barely even mentioned equipment, most of this was focused on tour playing conditions being too consistent. Of course the click baity title implies a much more negative complaint. This read more like a very passive reminiscent commentary by a slightly depressed nihilist :)

[golfandfishing]

He is 100000% correct. Tour golf is severely dumbed down. The expansion of the TPC network of courses has driven one style of golf to the tour:

wide open - it has to be to support big crowds, tents, trailers, tv equipment and all other infrastructure needed for a week long event.

perfect - the courses have to look perfect and draw praise from players who gush about it on tv. This supports the $300 greens fee the other 50 weeks it is open.

flat - fairways might have some pitch, but all the run out settles into flat lies so players rarely have to play from a hanging lie anymore

safety nets - fairways are surrounded by mounds so fans can view from there. This basically turns into tee shots into bumper bowling for golf. Any ball that actually lands and stops offline results in a drop from a grandstand, tv tower/TIO or because “someone stepped on it”. Players aim for these areas when in trouble because they know they will get a drop into a favorable spot.

undulating greens - these look great on tv and the announcers will tell you how incredible they are, but the tour cuts the holes in flat areas where the ball feeds. They never cut the holes in areas where the ball feeds away

 

Why hit a cut around a tree when you can just blast a 4 iron into the Schwab tent and drop next to the green?

Par 5s are 600 yards now because players can blast driver without fear of a mis hit, their driver us the size of a coffee table. They are going to mash it, and if it’s offline they are either going to bound back into play off the spectator mounds or Slugger will find then relief from something.

Why work a draw into a back left pin when the hole is cut at the bottom of a shelf and will feed anything hit within 50 feet into the circle of friendship?

[MK7Golf21]

True above on hole locations, on these tpc courses on tour generally when a player is short sided, there is a slope to chip into that will feed it to the hole. I mean on public tracks I never see these designs and hole locations.

[Ferguson]

Greg Norman is remaking the original Mad Max Film.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He choked at the Masters, his restaurant scores a 3.5 on Yelp, he gets no respect for his expansive art collection and no one reads his letters…………………..now he’s mad. In a not-too-distant future, when man's most precious resource – viable golf courses - have been depleted and the world is plunged into arguments about equipment and dialing back the ball, Australia attempts to make new efforts in golf course design. Max (Greg Norman), an officer with the Global Golf Counsel, launches a personal vendetta against the PGA, The Players and the USGA when his letter to Tiger goes unread, leaving him with nothing but the instincts for survival and retribution.  MAD MAX – 2020

Greg Norman as Max Rockatansky

Karrie Webb as Jessie Rockatansky

Charley Hoffman as Toecutter

Robert Allenby as Jim "Goose" Rains

Adam Scott as Johnny the Boy

Craig Parry as Fred "Fifi" Macaffee

Geoff Ogilvy as Bubba Zanetti

 

[duffer987]

These pros are good. They play the courses that are laid out in front of them in the manner in which gets the lowest scores. Yes the average tour stop might not be the most interesting golf to watch, but look what happens when they go somewhere with 'options'.

The Byron Nelson at Trinity Forest and the Scottish Open at Renaissance Club show what an average tour pro (they are both pretty uninspiring fields) will do to a minimalist course design with angles and interesting greens if you don't get weather conditions making it tougher; winning scores in the -20s.

[CupCup]

Current game is for the tee and smah golfers. This is why BK and DJ are in top rankings. I dont see any special short making with them. They just rely on power and nothing else. Ask anyone if they have any memorable shot of BK and DJ and the only thing that will come up is long drives. A joke golf has become.

[Smada962]

This is the typical jealous attitude I see so often with short hitting, terrible golfers

[Socrates]

Many valid points. Most have nothing to do with the equipment or the ball. It's about agronomy and course setup. I've advocated for many years that fairways need to be cut longer and be softer so that you don't get massive bounce and then run. I've yet to play on a high end course where I got a 20 yard first bounce and 30 more yards of run out. More questionable lies in the fairway just like 90% of us get every day. Put a flier into the equation - even from the fairway.

[duffer987]

What are your Top 10 most memorable Geoff Ogilvy shots, off the top of your head.

[Socrates]

I couldn't come up with 5 in the history of golf - off the top of my head. But, I could tell you about the 5 best shots I hit this year.

[anth]

Some all time classic point missing going on in this thread.

[Scotty1140]

I can’t think of another sport that’s as obsessed as golf is at endless commentary on the state of the game.

[ingy]

i think he's 100% correct

 

have a look at the bubba's out there complaining that "there's too much sand in the bunker"........ incredible. You're supposed to be in a HAZARD! It's supposed to PENALIZE you!

 

what he says about the course conditions is spot on, these guys hit 3 woods out of fairway bunkers, the ones at my track i'm lucky if i'm not plugged or stuck in the face

 

not to mention that there'll be at least 6 different green speeds hole to hole, and we even have one experimental green that has totally different grass on it to the other 17

 

[Loki]

You're just as a problem as Soc.

[Loki]

What's interesting to me about his take is, and I agree with it, is that he has taken a view that you would expect a 62 YO to say, not a 42 YO. Every generation has basically said the same thing about the next generation and it isn't limited to golf, it's what has happened to living. It has gotten easier and better, at least in the U.S. and other first world and second world countries.

[bladehunter]

yes. Makes you think doesn’t it? What’s his angle ? Lol. Maybe the truth ? I couldn’t tell you how many times I’ve been accused of being 70 and “ out of touch “. I turned 40 in December. And hit it a long ways. Am I just old and out of touch. Or jealous. Or ? Hmmm.

[nichho]

Just as well otherwise WRX wouldn't exist.

 

And as ever when this issue is debated I post a link to this very interesting article regarding Steve Marino playing at a muni in washington.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/01/AR2007070101221.html?sid=ST2009071701245

[smashdn]

Being like at one time having to use calculus and now only needing long division at worst.

 

I read it as a combination of "no need to be creative" due to "equipment being much easier to hit." Or I don't put myself in positions where or find myself in conditions that require me to be creative with my shots. I also read, "the equipment is on the verge of so forgiving if you wanted to hit a shaped shot it is harder than it used to be."

 

The old heel cut is a thing of the past.

[smashdn]

"undulating greens - these look great on tv and the announcers will tell you how incredible they are, but the tour cuts the holes in flat areas where the ball feeds. They never cut the holes in areas where the ball feeds away"

IME I have found the undulating greens to be a little easier, for me anyway, to putt on. Two reasons come to mind; 1) I don't have to worry very much about determining break direction, it is fairly evident, even for double breaks, 2)lowered expectations, if it is rolly-polly and I am 30 foot away, getting it within 3' is pretty good. If I am 30 foot away on flat green I am grinding to make it no matter how out of statistical realm of possibility it is.

 

Y'all have a good weekend.

[golfho50]

I thought Charlie Hoffman is an American golfer

[munichop]

If you need proof of his perspective look at The Open. Old guys or guys who grew up playing links golf contend or win more than any other event. The reason is they know no how to golf. The PGA Tour is about bomb and gouge. Like I said in the distance discussion, the last thirty years golf has changed from painting like an artist to paint by numbers. The younger guys may want to learn the nuances but they don’t have to to make it big, especially if they have 120 mph driver speed. Rahm admitted to Feherty that Angel Jimenez is way better than him from 150 and in. He said that when he was no. 3 in the world ranking. That I believe is what GO is talking about.

[grm24]

Wishbone Brawl ends with a KO

 

[mukster]

Good grief.

Winter had better end soon for a bunch of you!

[Ferguson]

 

 

For casting purposes, I felt Charley had the look. Plus, they both use the same guy for dental implants.

 

[Socrates]

Being like at one time having to use calculus and now only needing long division at worst.I read it as a combination of "no need to be creative" due to "equipment being much easier to hit." Or I don't put myself in positions where or find myself in conditions that require me to be creative with my shots. I also read, "the equipment is on the verge of so forgiving if you wanted to hit a shaped shot it is harder than it used to be."

 

One way to look at it is how I do certain things in club repair. I don't give it one moment of thought or think it is somehow difficult and yet, if I do the exact same thing in front of someone less skilled, they are blown away by what I just did. They want to know how I made that look easy and why would I have thought to do that? Maybe that's where Ogilvy is at with how he perceives golf?

On the other hand, watching the PGA Tour Horror Show this week, there seems to an awful amount of players who think this game is anything but easy. The cut was +3. Must be something in the water?

[RainShadow]

On the contrary, I think Earl heard that and taught Tiger that there was a bunch of suckers to be had!

[Hawkeye77]

LOL, but to be true to the original they'll have to dub his voice ---- I'll bet Chrissie would volunteer.