New Irons

[progolf4life]

help

I have been looking at new irons for the 2008 season. Right now I currently play Wilson Pi5's 3-PW with TTDGS300 shafts. I was wondering what irons you guys reccommend for under $300 used. Also, what will new irons give me that the Pi5's don't have?

[Bobcat43]

I guess I don't know what to tell you. Aren't you getting the MP32's? You were looking at the MP33's and Titleist 695MB's. I wish I owned a golf shop next door to you! LOL!

You are going to have to give us more to go on here. What are you really looking for? And then you will get about 50 different opinions.

What have you hit recently that you liked? What is your handicap? What are your iron strengths and weakness'? What shafts do you like? Have you ever been cusom fit? We need more to get the whole picture.

[Papitwinki]

If I may ask, why are you getting rid of the Pi5s ?
And what are you looking for that the Pi5s don't have ?

[progolf4life]

Alright i'll try to give more info.

[b]Shafts[/b]=TTDGS300, and I won't play anything else (love the feel)
[b]Custom Fit[/b]=I am getting fit with whatever irons I get or if I keep the Pi5's I will get those fit with the right lie/length and have the lofts checked
[b]What I am looking for[/b]=I heard that forged irons tend to spin a bit more so I am guessing they would be more accurate going into greens, right? But then again theres all those Ping, TM, and Wilson staffers that play cast. I also heard that forged irons give a better feel. I like a semi-thin topline and very little offset.

Other than that I can't think of anything else. O, and I think i'm getting caught up on what the tour players are playing (no Pi5's)........yes I know that rediculous, but you've all got caught up too at some point .

[Bobcat43]

[quote name='progolf4life' post='801674' date='Nov 25 2007, 11:16 AM']Alright i'll try to give more info.

[b]Shafts[/b]=TTDGS300, and I won't play anything else (love the feel)
[b]Custom Fit[/b]=I am getting fit with whatever irons I get or if I keep the Pi5's I will get those fit with the right lie/length and have the lofts checked
[b]What I am looking for[/b]=I heard that forged irons tend to spin a bit more so I am guessing they would be more accurate going into greens, right? But then again theres all those Ping, TM, and Wilson staffers that play cast. I also heard that forged irons give a better feel. I like a semi-thin topline and very little offset.

Other than that I can't think of anything else. O, and I think i'm getting caught up on what the tour players are playing (no Pi5's)........yes I know that rediculous, but you've all got caught up too at some point .[/quote]

It is rediculous and yes most here have been there. But it sounds like you know you're being rediculous... so don't do it (don't make that mistake). Find the set that's right for you.

That's such a broad statement about the forgings spinning more and I don't really think there is much substance behind it. Many feel that forged blades (or blades period) are more accurate because they can be worked easier. This may be true if you can work the ball. But they will also make your misses much worse too. How many irons shots do you hit perfectly in a round vs. ones you miss hit?

Honestly, the last guy I played with that played forged blades (MP-29, one of th best all-time Mizuno blades, IMHO) couldn't break 90 on a good day. If I didn't feel bad for him I'd have laughed in his face when he told me all about how Tiger played these same irons. Now that's rediculous.

I realize this is an internet forum and being honest about your game is a lost art. But be honest with yourself and try a bunch of different sets and see what you like. Like I said before the best players I know (nationwide and mini-tour guys) stay clear of blades and play a cavity back (even a cast cavity back! OMG!). All they care about is their score. Nothing worse then having a great looking bag that your game can't match (I love to play in tourney's with those guys). It's the guy that show's up in dirty old dryjoys with clubs circa 2002 (old cleveland launcher and old TM irons) that smokes a drive 310 and then spins a wedge to 4 feet, that scares me.

Ok... off the soapbox. You will do whatever you want to do and that's cool. But if you want our help we need some more help from you. You need to help us with your game. Truthfully, how good of a ballstriker are you? Handicap? Have you ever kept stats on your game? Where are your weakness'? Strengths? What's wrong with the Wilsons? What irons have you hit and what are your impressions?

I've played so many sets over the last 10+ years I'd like to help. And there are some good players on here that could give you a ton of insight. Thanks.

[Papitwinki]

Based on what you say, if you want a significant difference in terms of feel and spin over the Pi5s, I would suggest you go with soft carbon musclebacks.
If you can hit the Pi5s decently, you probably can easily hit MP33 or something similar.

Oh, and you like great feel and some extra spin ? Give the Rifle Flighted (6.0 probably in your case) a try one day if you haven't. You can always stick with the DGS300 if you think they fit your game better.

[BarryMCokiner]

Didn't an Irishman recently win an Open with PI-5s?

[mat562]

My suggestion is very boring.

Find somewhere that has a few clubs to demo (or get your hands on some of the irons you're considering) and hit balls with them to gauge how they feel and perform for you.

Blades and cavity-backed irons feel very different and the only way to know what looks and feels good and suits you is to physically hit shots with them.

As an aside, as a long time forged iron player, I can confidently state that they don't spin more than cast clubs. At least, all other things being equal they don't.

[progolf4life]

[quote name='Bobcat43' post='801700' date='Nov 25 2007, 11:47 AM']Ok... off the soapbox. You will do whatever you want to do and that's cool. But if you want our help we need some more help from you. You need to help us with your game. Truthfully, how good of a ballstriker are you? Handicap? Have you ever kept stats on your game? Where are your weakness'? Strengths? What's wrong with the Wilsons? What irons have you hit and what are your impressions?

I've played so many sets over the last 10+ years I'd like to help. And there are some good players on here that could give you a ton of insight. Thanks.[/quote]

[b][i]"Truthfully, how good of a ballstriker are you?"[/i][/b]
I consider myself to be a decent ballstriker. I've been having a lot of problems with my 3-iron lately (as always). My 3-iron distance seems to carry around 180 while my 6-iron carries 180 also... I can hit my 9-iron 155yds and my SS with my driver is 109 on average. My 3-iron really has been killing me. No matter how I try to swing I can't seem to make it go high enough.....or when I do get it high enough it doesn't have a penetrating trajectory at all.

[b][i]"Handicap?"[/i][/b]
I am not positive on this one. My scores are usually in the 80's even on a bad ballstriking day because my short game is pretty good.

[b][i]"Have you ever kept stats on your game?"[/i][/b]
Yes I have. Usually my fairways and greens aren't that great at all......usually around 4 fairways and 4-5 greens through 9 which isn't good.

[b][i]"Where are your weakness'?"[/i][/b]
Hitting fairways and greens....

[b][i]"What's wrong with the Wilsons?"[/i][/b]
I can't get the 3-iron up in the air as high as I would like and at adress they look a little weird to me.

[b][i]"What irons have you hit and what are your impressions?"[/i][/b]
I've hit the Mizuno MP-60, MP-37, MP-57, and MP-67 as was impressed with them all. I only got to hit the 6-iron for each set but they all felt nice. I also hit a Bridgestone J33 Combo 3-Iron and hit it about 220 but that was only once out of..I don't remember how many. I also hit a Callaway X-Forged 6-iron with a Project X 6.0 shaft but it didn't feel quite right. I also hit a TaylorMade r7 TP and Snake Eyes 600XC 6-Iron which both felt good.

[Grum]

Pi5's are a great set of irons. What i'd do is get properly fit into your Pi5's and they will be even better.

[Bobcat43]

[quote name='progolf4life' post='801961' date='Nov 25 2007, 04:50 PM'][quote name='Bobcat43' post='801700' date='Nov 25 2007, 11:47 AM']Ok... off the soapbox. You will do whatever you want to do and that's cool. But if you want our help we need some more help from you. You need to help us with your game. Truthfully, how good of a ballstriker are you? Handicap? Have you ever kept stats on your game? Where are your weakness'? Strengths? What's wrong with the Wilsons? What irons have you hit and what are your impressions?

I've played so many sets over the last 10+ years I'd like to help. And there are some good players on here that could give you a ton of insight. Thanks.[/quote]

[b][i]"Truthfully, how good of a ballstriker are you?"[/i][/b]
I consider myself to be a decent ballstriker. I've been having a lot of problems with my 3-iron lately (as always). My 3-iron distance seems to carry around 180 while my 6-iron carries 180 also... I can hit my 9-iron 155yds and my SS with my driver is 109 on average. My 3-iron really has been killing me. No matter how I try to swing I can't seem to make it go high enough.....or when I do get it high enough it doesn't have a penetrating trajectory at all.

[b][i]"Handicap?"[/i][/b]
I am not positive on this one. My scores are usually in the 80's even on a bad ballstriking day because my short game is pretty good.

[b][i]"Have you ever kept stats on your game?"[/i][/b]
Yes I have. Usually my fairways and greens aren't that great at all......usually around 4 fairways and 4-5 greens through 9 which isn't good.

[b][i]"Where are your weakness'?"[/i][/b]
Hitting fairways and greens....

[b][i]"What's wrong with the Wilsons?"[/i][/b]
I can't get the 3-iron up in the air as high as I would like and at adress they look a little weird to me.

[b][i]"What irons have you hit and what are your impressions?"[/i][/b]
I've hit the Mizuno MP-60, MP-37, MP-57, and MP-67 as was impressed with them all. I only got to hit the 6-iron for each set but they all felt nice. I also hit a Bridgestone J33 Combo 3-Iron and hit it about 220 but that was only once out of..I don't remember how many. I also hit a Callaway X-Forged 6-iron with a Project X 6.0 shaft but it didn't feel quite right. I also hit a TaylorMade r7 TP and Snake Eyes 600XC 6-Iron which both felt good.
[/quote]

Ok some good info here. Like me you need to hit more fairways in order to hit more greens. Your iron game suffers from trying to recover form your tee shot (I'm there with you). But your driver isn't the question here. Let stick to your iron question.

Your 3 iron issue could be any number of problems outside your swing. But check the specs on your clubs. Or better yet consider a hybrid to replace the 3 iron (I sometimes use a Bridgestone Airmuscle in place of my 3 iron)

First I'd check your Wilsons and get them fit to you so that you have starting point. But if you are going away from them you have a couple options. Watch the BST/ebay/local stores for good used club deals on irons you think might work. If they don't work then put them back on the BST and move on. Or consider sites like golfclubdemo.com and you can use the demo fee towards a purchase at your local Golf Galaxy.

Only you will know what you like and any suggestion I or anyone else makes won't mean much. But of the irons you've tried I've either owned or demo'd extensively some of them. Here are my impressions...

MP-60 good all around iron fairly forgiving and a higher trajectory, only lasted 1 month in my bag.
MP-32 better then the 60, a little more demanding, but lower trajectory and solid all around club, mine were stolen.
J33 combo's very good feel and the long irons were real easy to elevate
X-Forged wanted to like them but the Flighted PX weren't to my liking either(I do like the regular PX)
R7 TP not a bad cavity back, but still can't touch the 300 forged and so I was dissapointed

Nothing can substitute for a properly fitted set. If you are in the Dayton/Cincy area I can recommend a guy that will work with you and your chosen set and really help (has an indoor facility too in the winter). Be prepared he will give you an education that you won't forget. I got hooked up with him from a Nike staff player.

If you give up on the Wilsons then here are a few other sets I've played in some fashion that may fit your game and budget ($300) and may leave you room to pay for a good tweaking...

Taylor Made 300 forged, RAC LT
Mizuno PRO, PRO II (but these hit it pretty low), MP 30
Titleist 704, 735, 762 690cb, 690.cb
Srixon 302
Bridgestone J33 cb and combo
Ping I3, I3+, S59

(all of these sets were played or are still played on tours and in my opinion are high quality choices no matter how old they are)

This isn't all that will work but just ones I've tried. As you can see they are all player's cavities or combo sets. I've owned blades and based on what you've told me about your game I'd stay away (IMHO) from them right now. Not that they are bad but you may struggle with them and not have much fun. There are many pros that play cavities and they are far better then I could hope to be so I'll stay away from the blade. But I have traveled down that road thinking they will make my game better and was I ever wrong (but when struck well they are fun).

As your game develops you may take it to the level that a blade will help more then it hurts you. But when the pressure hits you need a club you can count on hitting well more times then not. That's just my philosophy.

[rhoward327]

My store has a set of Titleist 735 for $319.99 used but in really really good shape. The guy played 2 rounds with them becasue they were his backups. I see you like Titleist stuff. You could probably find a set of those for $300 or less. Spend a litte extra at some point and get them fitted, frequency matched, and pured. You will never need to change again!

[progolf4life]

[quote name='Bobcat43' post='802308' date='Nov 25 2007, 09:08 PM']Ok some good info here. Like me you need to hit more fairways in order to hit more greens. Your iron game suffers from trying to recover form your tee shot (I'm there with you). But your driver isn't the question here. Let stick to your iron question.

Your 3 iron issue could be any number of problems outside your swing. But check the specs on your clubs. Or better yet consider a hybrid to replace the 3 iron (I sometimes use a Bridgestone Airmuscle in place of my 3 iron)

First I'd check your Wilsons and get them fit to you so that you have starting point. But if you are going away from them you have a couple options. Watch the BST/ebay/local stores for good used club deals on irons you think might work. If they don't work then put them back on the BST and move on. Or consider sites like golfclubdemo.com and you can use the demo fee towards a purchase at your local Golf Galaxy.

Only you will know what you like and any suggestion I or anyone else makes won't mean much. But of the irons you've tried I've either owned or demo'd extensively some of them. Here are my impressions...

MP-60 good all around iron fairly forgiving and a higher trajectory, only lasted 1 month in my bag.
MP-32 better then the 60, a little more demanding, but lower trajectory and solid all around club, mine were stolen.
J33 combo's very good feel and the long irons were real easy to elevate
X-Forged wanted to like them but the Flighted PX weren't to my liking either(I do like the regular PX)
R7 TP not a bad cavity back, but still can't touch the 300 forged and so I was dissapointed

Nothing can substitute for a properly fitted set. If you are in the Dayton/Cincy area I can recommend a guy that will work with you and your chosen set and really help (has an indoor facility too in the winter). Be prepared he will give you an education that you won't forget. I got hooked up with him from a Nike staff player.

If you give up on the Wilsons then here are a few other sets I've played in some fashion that may fit your game and budget ($300) and may leave you room to pay for a good tweaking...

Taylor Made 300 forged, RAC LT
Mizuno PRO, PRO II (but these hit it pretty low), MP 30
Titleist 704, 735, 762 690cb, 690.cb
Srixon 302
Bridgestone J33 cb and combo
Ping I3, I3+, S59

(all of these sets were played or are still played on tours and in my opinion are high quality choices no matter how old they are)

This isn't all that will work but just ones I've tried. As you can see they are all player's cavities or combo sets. I've owned blades and based on what you've told me about your game I'd stay away (IMHO) from them right now. Not that they are bad but you may struggle with them and not have much fun. There are many pros that play cavities and they are far better then I could hope to be so I'll stay away from the blade. But I have traveled down that road thinking they will make my game better and was I ever wrong (but when struck well they are fun).

As your game develops you may take it to the level that a blade will help more then it hurts you. But when the pressure hits you need a club you can count on hitting well more times then not. That's just my philosophy.[/quote]

I am also getting a new driver for next year so hopefully it might work better than my current driver. I am getting a Titleist 905R 9.5* with a UST ProForce V2 75-S. That driver felt so solid nothing else could compare. The only other driver I may consider is a Ping G5 with an Aldila NV 65-S. I am also getting a Titleist 906F2 9.5* with a UST ProForce V2 85-S so hopefully that's going to help me also. My current 3 wood gives me a ballooning trajectory so I am not very accurate with it.

New question: I tend to hit my driver and 3-wood REALLY HIGH.....too high. So why can't I elevate my long irons? For next season I am getting rid of my 3-iron and getting a replacement hybrid. I haven't yet decided on one though. (any suggestions)?

My club pro just switched from Nike CCI Forged to Mizuno MP-30 irons and the owner of the clubhouse owns the Titleist 690CBs. Too bad they are so protective of their clubs no one can touch them... The owner owned a set of 695CBs but sold them because he didn't like them as much as the 690s so maybe that's a set to look at.

Out of that list I would like to know more about the following irons:
Titleist 690CB
Mizuno MP-30
Titleist 735CM
Bridgestone J33CB

Thanks for the help so far.

[Bobcat43]

Again not sure what the problem with the 3 iron is? I'd get it checked out. Real hard to suggest anything else on a golf forum.

But of the irons you asked about. I'm a huge fan of the 735cm's. Being a combo set you get the forgiving long irons (that you can still work) the mid iron are just flat solid. The mids have the blend of forgiveness and playability that you would expect. But I've always said the stars of the set are the short irons. They are blades and are forgiving (relatively). But deadly accurate. The thing to consider on the 735's is whether to get stainless or chrome. The chrome can't be bent as much as the stainless. But the chrome feel better. I play the stainless (for no particular reason). Pick your poison.

My next favorite would be the MP 30's. They have the classic Mizuno feel (the older feel, if that makes any sense to long time mizzy players). They have a flatter trajectory but enough forgiveness to be a solid choice to grow with and stay with (the predecessor to the MP 60 and I think a better choice). It's been a few years since I owned them but I can't remember anything bad about them. I switched because I was a real Ho at the time.

The 690cb (not the dot cb) may have been the best of the 690 series (cavityback wise). Good forgiveness (they seemed bigger if I remember correctly. Clicky Titleist forging feel and a little higher flight then the MP 30's. Again trying to remember specifics. solid choice (Jay Haas played these for years)

The Bridgestone cb (not the combos) are the least favorite of the bunch you selected. I found these to be the most demanding of the group. Good feel but nothing remarkable. Boring ball flight. I demo'd them over a several week period and never seriously considered buying them. I think I had the MP 32's at the time and couldn't find a real advantage to a switch. But many around here love them.

Of the 4 if you want the easiest long irons go with the 735's. If you want the best feel go with the MP-30 or 690cb (if clicky is your thing). If you want deadly short irons look at the 735 or maybe the Mizzy. A solid set from 3-PW with no tricks (meaning no profile changes) look at the 690 or the MP30's (classic styling that will last forever).

My best scores have been with the 735's, I just feel good about them. But I remember feeling real good about the MP 30's too. I just think that maybe overall I'll get away with more playing the 735's and stick it a little closer. Of course this is all subject to change because we are all Ho's at heart!

These are just my impressions and some of them are years old. So take it for what it's worth. Good Luck.

[rhoward327]

As I suggested before the Titleist 735CM offers you a cavity in the long irons and a muscle in the short. Sounds like a good head for you. The head is forged for a softer feel. You should give the 755's a try too. A shorter blade length than the irons you have asked about but I think you might like them.

Also as I said before a good fit, frequency matched, and pured, spine aligned set shafts and you will not need to worry so much about what head. A good club fitter is about taking varialbles out of your clubs which in turn takes a variable out of your game(the clubs).

I do not see why you are so set on the Dynamic Gold s300, a good shaft it is but not the only one. If you are stuck on them you are limiting your options . You will be making your fitter work around that and lessoning the chance of the best possible fit. When I fit someone I like to have more than one session with them. I like to have them try some clubs and come back and try some more. This helps me as a fitter to better know the player I am working with. It lets me see how much the swing changes from day to day. If there is little change the better I can fit the player. The more the swing changes less exact I can be with the fit so that later adjustments can be made as the swing becomes more consitent.

As far as workability goes a good player can work the ball with anything. That is why you see such a variety of irons out there on tour. They can all make the ball fly sideways if they want. They choose the irons they do for feel, look, and anything else is just in their mind. There are only 2 things that make the ball fly the direction it goes in. The club path and the angle of the face in relation to its path. In other words if the face it open 2 degrees the ball is going to fade and if it is closed 2 degrees it is going to draw. Angle of the face creates curvature. Club path dictates the starting direction the ball starts to fly before curvature takes over. Pick up a copy of "The Maltby Playability Factor" Book One MPF Irons he explains this well along with lots of other club dynamics.

Good Luck

[thenewbie]

the first thing people will say when you can't elevate your 3 iron is that you should take it out and put in a hybrid. I did this, and its been fine. . .but then I went to get the lie adjusted on my irons (I bought them used and they were supposed to be 2* upright. . .I needed 1* flat), and realized that the 3 iron had been slowly bent to 5* UPRIGHT. the fitter had to bend it 6* to get it to where I wanted it. the other irons where anywhere from 2*-4* upright, so obviously getting them bent to my specs made all the difference in the world.

next I'm regripping them and taking an inch off. . .+2" is a bit too much for me.

but now I'm torn. I can hit both my 3 iron and 23* hybrid 215 yards, and while the iron is more controllable, the hybrid flies high and lands soflty.

as far as forged irons spinning more. . .I think you'll find that the guys with forged sticks are usually just better at spinning it in the first place. also, personally, my MP-33's go super high, so they stop really quickly even though I've never been a high spin player. great on days where the wind is not an issue.

in the end, if your SS is around 109 and you hit your woods high, but aren't getting your 3 iron to go farther than your 6 iron, I would look at the specs on your sticks and make sure everything is kosher.

[wirelessness]

Going back to your orginal post saying you are looking for a used set under $300....this is very possible. However, in your next post you state you plan to get custom fit clubs (good idea). This might be a bit challenging to get a quality set of custom fit clubs for under $300...if you want name brand clubs. Not impossible though...and not to start a full fledged debate on various component makers vs. OEM's. OEM's seem to be the focus here.

For $300 your best chance to find something custom...assuming your specs are non-standard would be to possibly find a used set that are already cut to your needs and maybe even bent to you specs also. In my experience this is much easier to find by looking for the desired color code of PING irons, which are readily available used and often in custom lenghts too. By the time you buy a used set of forged CB's and potentially have them reshafted and bent it will be tough to stay in your price range. imo

Ping I5's might fit the bill....

[progolf4life]

[quote name='wirelessness' post='803270' date='Nov 26 2007, 05:45 PM']Going back to your orginal post saying you are looking for a used set under $300....this is very possible. However, in your next post you state you plan to get custom fit clubs (good idea). This might be a bit challenging to get a quality set of custom fit clubs for under $300...if you want name brand clubs. Not impossible though...and not to start a full fledged debate on various component makers vs. OEM's. OEM's seem to be the focus here.

For $300 your best chance to find something custom...assuming your specs are non-standard would be to possibly find a used set that are already cut to your needs and maybe even bent to you specs also. In my experience this is much easier to find by looking for the desired color code of PING irons, which are readily available used and often in custom lenghts too. By the time you buy a used set of forged CB's and potentially have them reshafted and bent it will be tough to stay in your price range. imo

Ping I5's might fit the bill....[/quote]

I meant $300 or under just for the clubs. I have money set to the side to get fitted with. Right now i'm going between the Titliest 690CBs, 735CM, and the Mizuno MP-30s.

I still luster for blades even though they may hurt me at the moment. Such as the MP-33s and 690MBs.

[Ezgolfer]

TM rac CB's or a combo set (TM MB 7-pw blades and RAC CB 3-6 ).Very easy to hit . Will prolly fit your bill if you buy from ebay .
Great irons .

[rhoward327]

thenewbie,
When you shorten your clubs 1" you are going to make the Lie angle flatter. So when you cut them refit the lie. Do not just assume that 1" is 2 degrees either. Hit them on the lie board to be sure.

[thenewbie]

[quote name='rhoward327' post='803554' date='Nov 26 2007, 10:40 PM']thenewbie,
When you shorten your clubs 1" you are going to make the Lie angle flatter. So when you cut them refit the lie. Do not just assume that 1" is 2 degrees either. Hit them on the lie board to be sure.[/quote]

thanks. . .will do.

[wirelessness]

[quote name='progolf4life' post='803365' date='Nov 26 2007, 04:04 PM']I meant $300 or under just for the clubs. I have money set to the side to get fitted with. Right now i'm going between the Titliest 690CBs, 735CM, and the Mizuno MP-30s.

I still luster for blades even though they may hurt me at the moment. Such as the MP-33s and 690MBs.[/quote]


Those are excellent choices....if your price range goes up check out the Srixon 701 and 701 tour.