Club heads coming loose

[CHines14]

Hey guys,

I’ve been building my own clubs for a couple years now, and I’m suddenly plagued with my club heads coming loose. I’ve tried 2 different epoxies (24hr cure and 12hr cure) and I can’t figure out what the problem is. I think I’m doing everything right. I usually prep the tips by running some sandpaper over them, then wiping them down to remove any material. Then I clean out the hosel using the golf works wire brush drill attachment and clean the inside with a Q-Tip and alcohol.

When prepping my epoxy, I do eyeball the mixture. The 24hr is the golf works 24hr cure 1:1 by volume mixture, and the 12hr is 1:1 as well. Is it really that exact where I need to have the spot on mixture? Could that be the problem? Should I use a scale when measuring my epoxy? My 24hr is probably 3yrs old, and the 12hr is under a year old. I also use shafting beads.

I do also keep my clubs in my car while at work (Massachusetts). Could the heat in the car break down the bond?

I’m really at a loss here for why they could consistently keep coming loose.

should also add that I’ve played with them every day for the last month and a half, as well as 5 or so range sessions before they came loose.

Thanks

[disco111]

If memory serves, there was a post about Golfworks epoxy having some problems. It takes a lot of heat to break a proper epoxy bond and it's doubtful keeping the clubs in the trunk would reach that temp. Only 2 things can attribute the heads coming loose and they are either an improper mix or the epoxy is faulty. Try another brand on your refit, no sense in doing the same thing over again.

[Nessism]

1) Gotta rough up the shaft tips really well (other than graphite shafts) as well as abrade the hosel ID using a sandpaper roll to both clean the metal and create a rough finish.

2) Degrease hosel with MEK or acetone, used liberally. I fill up the hosel and scrub it down with the Q-Tip, then dump out. Then take another Q-tip and wet it, and wipe down the hosel to make sure it's not dark colored indicating there is still debris in there.

3) NO BEADS. It reduces bond strength.

4) Mixing by eye is okay. Just lay out parallel beads and eye them well to assure they are the same size.

5) Mix the epoxy for a full minute...or more. Can't overmix.

6) Three years old on the epoxy is no good. Get fresh. Use the 24 hour shafting epoxy like Epoweld.

7) Heat can affect epoxy, particularly crappy epoxy. Personally, I'd move to some really strong epoxy like 3M DP460 if you are going to store your clubs in the car.

[CHines14]

Thanks for the quick response!

I’ve always heard beads increase bond strength? Interesting to hear the opposite.

I wrote alcohol but it’s Acetone I’ve been using to clean them after prepping.

I think I’m just going to start fresh with a new batch of epoxy, maybe something non golf specific but with a high shear strength.

[HSTNGolfer]

I had a similar issue with Golfworks 24 hr epoxy about 3 or 4 years ago, despite always being ultra careful with prepping. I switched to V.O. Baker epoxy, e.g. G-1400 or G-100, and have not had a problem since.

[dubbelbogey]

Good suggestions above to switch to known, fresh epoxy and be super careful on prep.

Since you have to pull the shafts anyway, give them a good inspection when they're pulled. Do they have a good even coat of the old epoxy residue? In well bonded clubs, when pulled, both the shaft and hosel should show evidence of a good even coating from the prior application. If there are gaps, then that may point to insufficient epoxy or a technique issue where too much epoxy got "squeegeed" away when the shaft was inserted.

Finally, I think that storing clubs in the car is likely the most common place for clubs to live during the golf season. The fact is, most of us are far too lazy to pull the clubs out of the car. Given that, good epoxy should, and typically does, hold up just fine in these conditions. I store my clubs in the hot sun in a dark car all the time. Sun is very intense here in Colorado. My cousin did the same in Tucson. Neither of us have had clubheads come off. When car heat is the culprit, I'd bet it is compounded when something else in the build process was compromised - prep, materials, technique.

 

[CHines14]

Thanks guys, I picked up some 3M DP420 which will hopefully do the trick!

[mktrout]

lots of problems with golfworks epoxy coming loose! But also, using any epoxy that old is bad, I believe most say use within 6 month to a year after opening it. just buy smaller tubes if you dont use it much.

[Nessism]

That's good epoxy. The 420 version isn't great with stainless steel but it's good with carbon steel.

Be sure to abrade the hosel ID really well so fresh metal is exposed.

[Stuart_G]

No, not any. Some age better than others and storage plays a big role in how well it ages. I've still got some shafting epoxy from Golfsmith that must be pushing maybe at least 8 years now and still going very strong.

 

[Adam C]

How much and where are you mixing your epoxy? I know most people just like to squeeze it onto a piece of cardboard or similar and mix that, but that can cause issues.

Two suggestions. First mix your epoxy in a cup of some kind. If you get the kind with measurement marks on them, all the better. I have found mixing on flat surfaces often leads to uneven mixing (ie the edge of the mix is not as blended as the middle. Second, mix more epoxy than you know you need. Mix twice as much at least. The greater your total volume, the smaller the difference will be (as a percentage) if you go a little heavy or light on either side. This is even more important when using the tube style epoxy vs the bottles since it rarely comes out perfectly even to start with.

Also shafting beads should not be causing any issues unless you aren't using them in the correct proportions. Should only be 5% of shafting beads per volume of epoxy. More than that and you may have issues.

[mktrout]

Litterally direct from golfworks on their website: "The epoxy manufacture recommends a shelf life of one year." and from the biggest manufacturer out there "Shelf life is one year or less from the time of opening, based on ideal conditions in a low humidity, temperature controlled environment"

[Socrates]

They are in the business of selling epoxy. Shelf life is dependent on the formulation. Some have a unlimited shelf life. Some are less. Even the 3M DP460 says 24 months. They usually are WAY too conservative on shelf life because lawyers are involved. I used some for over 7 years with no problems (I had a shittload of the stuff), but then again, I wasn't making stuff for NASA.

Epoxy issues are almost always contamination, poor prep or poor mixing (ratio). In other word - operator error. Even experienced users can make a fundamental mistake without realizing it.

[LukeDonaldsTiger]

Try heat. I’m a novice clubmaker and have made the observation that heating the club after installation increases bond strength remarkably, even if it should work at normal temperatures.

I had 3-4 heads come loose when I had them cure at room temperature after assembly. GW 24h Epoxy. I’m super meticulous and prepped the shafts and heads well. Didn’t use too much but made sure I coated the shaft tips evenly. Still had them come loose.

After I started heating freshly assembled clubs at 60* C for 1.5 hrs, they are perfect. Using a heat gun and BBQ thermometer.

Recently bought a small heating blanket and wrapped it around one iron after installing it, let it sit overnight by my bed (I’m a light sleeper but still...). It was ready to play the next morning and is still going strong.

I had two heads come loose when using Brampton 5 min epoxy, but those were of the first batch and I’ve since honed my skills I think.

24h Epoxy and heating works great even for overnight installs. As someone said in another thread, „there’s no such thing as a golf emergency“, but I had great success taking the shortcut and reducing curing time with heat.

[Stuart_G]

Good thing the epoxy I referred to didn't come from golfworks ;-)

How long solvent free epoxy stays good depends a lot more on levels of contamination than age. That's why I usually stay away from dual syringe epoxy dispensers - much easier to get cross contamination between the hardener and resin and that will radically reduce the shelf life. But never throw away just based on time. If there is any question, a simple pot test is usually all that's needed to test if the epoxy is still good or not.

[cristphoto]

I always purchase epoxy in the smallest amount available. Typical price is $8 - $10. Re-shaft my clubs and use the rest for household projects. After a few months I toss the remainder out. It's a foolish economy to try to stretch the life out of such a cheap product. Consider the labor involved or the risk of a head coming off. Not worth it.

[Ger21]

I've used nearly 10 year old epoxy with no issues, and have probably assembled well over 50 clubs with epoxy that was ± 5 years old. I've never had an epoxy failure in 30+ years of clubmaking, and I've always used any epoxy I've bought for many years. A lot of epoxy manufacturers will tell you that epoxy does not go bad after 1 year.

If your clubs are coming loose, it's much more likely from poor prep or poor mixing of the epoxy, than the epoxy itself.

[Nessism]

You guys do what you want but I won't use epoxy that's older than about 3 years. I've seen where the hardener gets chunky even earlier than that on some epoxies. Considering you can buy more epoxy than most people would ever need for $10 I just don't see the point of using questionable epoxy.

[zmosnot]

better prep/epoxy, glass beads...

[Socrates]

better prep/epoxy, glass beads...

[Nessism]

A man after my own heart!

[jblough99]

I’ve been using the Golfworks Maximum Strength High Impact epoxy for about 15 years now and have never had anything come apart. It’s a 2:1 ratio 24 hour epoxy. I always buy the small cartridges so it doesn’t sit for very long. Takes a ton of heat to break it down.https://www.golfworks.com/the-golfworks-maximum-strength-high-impact-epoxy/p/vb1001/

[Ger21]

>>>I've seen where the hardener gets chunky

 

Yeah, if that happens, I certainly wouldn't use it, but I've never seen that happen.

If you mix up some epoxy, and the next day, it's cured and not sticky at all, then it should be fine.

 

[Tommyj]

What's the best source (cheapest) for the DP460, need to get the cartridge dispenser as well.

Also, anyone have any experience with the Brampton Pro Fix 20/20, in case I decide to save money.

[Nessism]

This is quality adhesive and a fair bit cheaper than DP420/460. I'm using it on my clubs. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IOQ71JA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Regarding the gun, there are various options. That stuff I listed requires a 10:1 plunger so be aware of that since it's not standard. And the new 50ml version 3m cartridges need a new plunger compared to the old smaller cartridges. Do your homework before ordering.

[roadrebel26]

Just what I was going to say. I'm still using my Golfsmith epoxy and have never had a club head come off. It must be 8 years since GS went bust in the UK.