2021 US Kids Worlds

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

8 hours ago, Medson said:

And I was under the impression that winning US Kids World gives the player one-year exemption on PGA TOUR and LGPA when he/she turns 18. At least, that’s how the parents describe the importance of winning US Kids World. 

You switched from predicting future success to getting exemptions to professional events?
 

Go look at the past top 10 finishers of Worlds and see where they are today: many (most) are top ranked juniors or playing at competitive D1 programs.  What’s a better predictive measure of success…height?

[tiger1873]

1 hour ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

You switched from predicting future success to getting exemptions to professional events?
 

Go look at the past top 10 finishers of Worlds and see where they are today: many (most) are top ranked juniors or playing at competitive D1 programs.  What’s a better predictive measure of success…height?

 

It’s not a predictor of success at all. There are plenty of kids who by the time there 14 or 15 who are not even playing golf.

 

The only real predictor of success is when there older like 16-18 and playing things like the US Amateur.   
 

The future winner of the US Amateur in 10 years may not even be playing golf right now.

 

D1 college is not what i would call a successful outcome for a winner of US Kids worlds.  They should be so far ahead that there actually a pro.

Edited July 31, 2021 by tiger1873

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

On 7/31/2021 at 7:42 AM, tiger1873 said:

 

It’s not a predictor of success at all. There are plenty of kids who by the time there 14 or 15 who are not even playing golf.

 

The only real predictor of success is when there older like 16-18 and playing things like the US Amateur.   
 

The future winner of the US Amateur in 10 years may not even be playing golf right now.

 

D1 college is not what i would call a successful outcome for a winner of US Kids worlds.  They should be so far ahead that there actually a pro.

 

You are trying to make the leap from junior golfers and winning US Kids tournaments to becoming a professional tour pro?  What about all the steps in between, which includes playing in college at a high level?

 

Go look at the historical results for those tournaments and where they end up 5-10yrs later.  Here's an example:

 

2017 US Kids World Championships, Boys 12

The top 5 Americans in that tournament are all top 25 in the class of 2023 JGS rankings.  They are probably all (at least verbally) committed by now and going high level D1 with a decent shot to be a pro.

 

The #75 (out of 100) finisher in that tournament is probably ranked around #500 for his class, and is borderline D1 but more likely a D2/D3 player.  

 

Go look at previous years' tournament results and where they ended up.  This is about as strong a predictor as you get from one level (junior golf 12 & under) and skipping ahead to another (college golf program).

[tiger1873]

17 minutes ago, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

 

You are trying to make the leap from junior golfers and winning US Kids tournaments to becoming a professional tour pro?  What about all the steps in between, which includes playing in college at a high level?

 

Go look at the historical results for those tournaments and where they end up 5-10yrs later.  Here's an example:

 

2017 US Kids World Championships, Boys 12

The top 5 Americans in that tournament are all top 25 in the class of 2023 JGS rankings.  They are probably all (at least verbally) committed by now and going high level D1 with a decent shot to be a pro.

 

The #75 (out of 100) finisher in that tournament is probably ranked around #500 for his class, and is borderline D1 but more likely a D2/D3 player.  

 

Go look at previous years' tournament results and where they ended up.  This is about as strong a predictor as you get from one level (junior golf 12 & under) and skipping ahead to another (college golf program).

 

I can tell you that most of the parents who I played with that had kids that win a US Kids world all think they have the next PGA  or LPGA pro.  I don't blame them but the thought of college is usually not on their mind. Most of them think there kid made it and all they have to do is coast. 

 

Ask anyone who knows anything and they will all tell you the same thing.  No one has clue what 12 year old will grow up to be Number 1 in the world as a pro.

 

Look current top PGA and LPGA players and  you find that some played early and had success while others had success later in life.  The ones who had success later in life tend outnumber the ones who didn't.

 

A lot parents look at Tiger Woods and think that his early success was a good indicator. It's probaly the exception more then rule.

 

 

[iteachgolf]

On 7/30/2021 at 6:01 PM, wildcatden said:

 

From the coaches view, it's a paid for vacation (to some degree).

Not really a vacation. It’s still work, especially if done right, and no way the parents can cover what a good coach is losing by being gone for a week

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

1 hour ago, tiger1873 said:

 

I can tell you that most of the parents who I played with that had kids that win a US Kids world all think they have the next PGA  or LPGA pro.  I don't blame them but the thought of college is usually not on their mind. Most of them think there kid made it and all they have to do is coast. 

 

Ask anyone who knows anything and they will all tell you the same thing.  No one has clue what 12 year old will grow up to be Number 1 in the world as a pro.

 

Look current top PGA and LPGA players and  you find that some played early and had success while others had success later in life.  The ones who had success later in life tend outnumber the ones who didn't.

 

A lot parents look at Tiger Woods and think that his early success was a good indicator. It's probaly the exception more then rule.

 

 

The 2016 and 2015 US Kids World Championship Boys 12 top 10 finishers from America are all high level D1 commits.  The top American finisher in 2016 Boys 12 is going to Vanderbilt, 2nd place just won the US Junior.

 

My prediction: the top finishers in Boys 12 for the 2021 US Kids World Championships will also be high level D1 golfers.  Some might become successful touring pros.  Not rocket science.

 

And we know several of the US Kids Worlds Champions (boys and girls) - none of them are thinking of turning pro without going to college first.

[mojomover]

We were just at Pinehurst... someone made a comment, don't know how far it is true as I have not validated this claim. No USKG world champion is on the PGA tour right now. Colin Morikawa finished 34th and 4th and Will Zalatoris finished top 5- those are the 2 best examples

[heavy_hitter]

43 minutes ago, mojomover said:

We were just at Pinehurst... someone made a comment, don't know how far it is true as I have not validated this claim. No USKG world champion is on the PGA tour right now. Colin Morikawa finished 34th and 4th and Will Zalatoris finished top 5- those are the 2 best examples

 

I personally know a USKG 12 year old world champ.  After his senior year of HS he put his clubs up.  Doesn't play tournament golf anymore.

 

I rarely agree with CTGolf errrr Concerned, but he is pretty accurate with the USKG college success rates.

[kekoa]

With all these predictions of success at worlds equating to D1 or PGA tour, I'm glad we stayed home this year. 🙂

[ncalgolf]

56 minutes ago, kekoa said:

With all these predictions of success at worlds equating to D1 or PGA tour, I'm glad we stayed home this year. 🙂

We just got back - my kid did pretty well, great vacation, great kids, lots of fun but all this stats and everything is a good example of how parents ruin most things for the kids...its for the kids they are little have some fun --- i think the vast majority of folks there are having a blast its a few that make everyone look like idiots

[kekoa]

12 minutes ago, ncalgolf said:

We just got back - my kid did pretty well, great vacation, great kids, lots of fun but all this stats and everything is a good example of how parents ruin most things for the kids...its for the kids they are little have some fun --- i think the vast majority of folks there are having a blast its a few that make everyone look like idiots

Yup, I agree.  I will say this though.  Literally 1-2% of the kids in the field have a chance to win and probably 15% can actually compete.  The rest are there for the experience and fun, which is great.    

[MikekiM]

We just got back last night.  Despite a horrid first round we battled back and had two respectable rounds.  Had a blast all week except when we found the new lake was closed on Monday, the one day we had set aside to fish.  Walked with the final group for the front nine and really put a good perspective in my kid.  Watching one of the kids stay calm enough to make par from a parking lot was amazing to watch. 

 

[kekoa]

4 minutes ago, MikekiM said:

We just got back last night.  Despite a horrid first round we battled back and had two respectable rounds.  Had a blast all week except when we found the new lake was closed on Monday, the one day we had set aside to fish.  Walked with the final group for the front nine and really put a good perspective in my kid.  Watching one of the kids stay calm enough to make par from a parking lot was amazing to watch. 

 

Great playing by J!!  I was going to text you about fishing but assumed it didn't happen.  Some of the guys fished at another lake and caught tons of LM and SM bass.  I'm going to stay there next year just for the fishing. 🙂

[leezer99]

1 hour ago, kekoa said:

Great playing by J!!  I was going to text you about fishing but assumed it didn't happen.  Some of the guys fished at another lake and caught tons of LM and SM bass.  I'm going to stay there next year just for the fishing. 🙂

 

Agreed!  Moving up 10 spots on the final day is a job well done!  @MikekiM

[darter79]

19 hours ago, kekoa said:

Yup, I agree.  I will say this though.  Literally 1-2% of the kids in the field have a chance to win and probably 15% can actually compete.  The rest are there for the experience and fun, which is great.    

 

I for one wish they make it harder to get in. Having kids there shooting 115 creating 6+ hour rounds is not fun. You don't need HUGE fields. It will never change but its annoying as hell. 

[Dallas]

I think the level of difficulty to get in is about right. In my opinion, the tournament was really well run this year. The practice round was completed in just over 4 hours and our tournament rounds were all under 4 hours and 30 minutes. We didn’t see any kids shooting huge numbers and certainly didn’t see 6 hour rounds. The major take away was that there are A LOT of really good players. A good number of kids were capable of shooting under par in any given round and a huge number of players could shoot low to mid 70s. As noted, there is a small percentage of kids who have a good chance to win—the big hitters dominate and in some of the older age groups (9-12) the kids at the top of the leaderboard are huge. Nonetheless, the kids can define what a win is for them whether it be first, top 10, top 50 or top 100. For a large number of kids, the course set ups were long and it was difficult to hit the green in regulation, but some of the short hitters have amazing short games and were able to get up and down from almost everywhere. I personally think the large fields add to the fun of the event as it makes it much different from other local and regional tournaments.

[tiger1873]

1 hour ago, darter79 said:

 

I for one wish they make it harder to get in. Having kids there shooting 115 creating 6+ hour rounds is not fun. You don't need HUGE fields. It will never change but its annoying as hell. 

 

It will never happen but they really should have a cut built in.  This would discourage  players who shouldn't be there.  Some those kids qualify in local events that are not too well run.

[mojomover]

I think within boys 9-12, for the most part most kids shot under 90. There might be a handful of kids who are qualified through sibling exception etc. On the girls side, agreed. They went down to priority 6, so you should expect higher scores. I for one thought that the field size was good/fun experience. We got done in 4.30 mins every round. 

[leezer99]

1 hour ago, tiger1873 said:

 

It will never happen but they really should have a cut built in.  This would discourage  players who shouldn't be there.  Some those kids qualify in local events that are not too well run.

Hell will freeze over before US Kids considers adding a cut. I’m surprised they don’t have mental breaks after nine for the kids to speak with a therapist. 

[Bizzle80]

Dudes...It's a KIDS event. Kids can go play, have fun, meet new friends from all over. I don't think USK markets it as a PGA/LPGA stepping stone...thats all in parents over active expectations.

 

Did your kids have a great time? Perfect. Are you annoyed by some slow play or less than tour quality 8 year old golfers? That shiz on you.

 

I mean how horrible would it be if you took your kid down there, booked travel etc and then he/she played poorly due to slight injury/bad break/food poisoning/etc and then you got cut? I mean only a handful really in the mix for top 5 and the rest there to have fun.

 

Go have fun. None of your kids are going pro anyways...

Edited August 3, 2021 by Bizzle80

[darter79]

9 hours ago, Dallas said:

I think the level of difficulty to get in is about right. In my opinion, the tournament was really well run this year. The practice round was completed in just over 4 hours and our tournament rounds were all under 4 hours and 30 minutes. We didn’t see any kids shooting huge numbers and certainly didn’t see 6 hour rounds. The major take away was that there are A LOT of really good players. A good number of kids were capable of shooting under par in any given round and a huge number of players could shoot low to mid 70s. As noted, there is a small percentage of kids who have a good chance to win—the big hitters dominate and in some of the older age groups (9-12) the kids at the top of the leaderboard are huge. Nonetheless, the kids can define what a win is for them whether it be first, top 10, top 50 or top 100. For a large number of kids, the course set ups were long and it was difficult to hit the green in regulation, but some of the short hitters have amazing short games and were able to get up and down from almost everywhere. I personally think the large fields add to the fun of the event as it makes it much different from other local and regional tournaments.

 

Its course to course dependent. Whatever director was running the course we were on not sure what they were doing to get things moving. Years past much smoother this year was pretty bad on the buildups that would happen. 

[heavy_hitter]

20 hours ago, Dallas said:

I think the level of difficulty to get in is about right. In my opinion, the tournament was really well run this year. The practice round was completed in just over 4 hours and our tournament rounds were all under 4 hours and 30 minutes. We didn’t see any kids shooting huge numbers and certainly didn’t see 6 hour rounds. The major take away was that there are A LOT of really good players. A good number of kids were capable of shooting under par in any given round and a huge number of players could shoot low to mid 70s. As noted, there is a small percentage of kids who have a good chance to win—the big hitters dominate and in some of the older age groups (9-12) the kids at the top of the leaderboard are huge. Nonetheless, the kids can define what a win is for them whether it be first, top 10, top 50 or top 100. For a large number of kids, the course set ups were long and it was difficult to hit the green in regulation, but some of the short hitters have amazing short games and were able to get up and down from almost everywhere. I personally think the large fields add to the fun of the event as it makes it much different from other local and regional tournaments.

 

The funny thing is, at least in the 12 year old division, the distances are now shorter.  In 2017 in the 12 year old division we played over 6000 yards.  Now it is slightly over 5900.

[Dallas]

7 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

The funny thing is, at least in the 12 year old division, the distances are now shorter.  In 2017 in the 12 year old division we played over 6000 yards.  Now it is slightly over 5900.

What was your experience with this? Was it playable for most of the field or was it so long that it knocked out most of the kids?

[heavy_hitter]

19 hours ago, Dallas said:

What was your experience with this? Was it playable for most of the field or was it so long that it knocked out most of the kids?

2017 there was actually a cut line for an A group and a B Group.  Honestly, the scores were about the same as they are now from the shorter distance.  Not really any difference at all.  I didn't think the yardage they played was a big deal.

Edited August 5, 2021 by heavy_hitter