Options on taking unplayable lie after tee shot

[Mr. Bean]

1 minute ago, Mudguard said:

I have. Even changed clubs!

 

?

Edited August 27, 2020 by Mr. Bean

[Oh Hi Carl]

I've played golf for 35 years and don't recall ever hearing this "line of flight" nonsense.  

[LeoLeo99]

19 minutes ago, Sonja Henie said:

I've played golf for 35 years and don't recall ever hearing this "line of flight" nonsense.  

 

I've heard it many a time.  In fact, I've heard it a lot more than the actual rule.  I had a huge argument with another guy regarding Tiger's infamous drop penalty in the 2013 Masters about this.  

 

 

[ChipNRun]

9 hours ago, sui generis said:

 

My club's head professional is pretty good at Rules, but I think it's because he is a skilled player and plays competitively a lot. Our assistants, who don't play competitively, aren't likely to even to be able to explain relief from a penalty area properly. ?

 

In defense of the assistant... he was talking to me... , then was fielding a phone call from the mother of one of his shop workers who had gotten sick and couldn't come to work... handling beverage purchases from members of our Senior Championship... and, getting things ready for a high school golf match slated to begin once our last foursome cleared the front nine.

 

Possibly his multitasking abilities got overloaded?

[nsxguy]

13 hours ago, Sonja Henie said:

I've played golf for 35 years and don't recall ever hearing this "line of flight" nonsense.  

 

13 hours ago, LeoLeo99 said:

 

I've heard it many a time.  In fact, I've heard it a lot more than the actual rule.  I had a huge argument with another guy regarding Tiger's infamous drop penalty in the 2013 Masters about this.  

 

Yeah, I've heard it a lot too. In fact, I still hear it.

 

As for Tiger, people sometimes get confused about the drop. They think he was dropping "back on line" when he was actually taking "stroke and distance".

[DavePelz4]

On 8/25/2020 at 6:26 PM, Sawgrass said:

Don’t forget you can take two unplayable ball penalties and possibly get about four club lengths to the side at the cost of two strokes.

 

Seriously, I've never even considered this and in a desperate situation, this could be a valuable choice.  Thank you Sir for opening up a closed mind.

[sprcoop]

Only a little off topic.  Just saw this today.  I am not good with rules but I think I would have gone with a re-tee in this situation.  I'm not too confident in my abilities as a lefty.  I figure he will be short of a decent drive and still be lying 3.

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/most-embarrassing-golf-tee-shot-ever-blooper-fail-video?itm_source=parsely-api

 

Edit: More on topic.  Once again, not good with the rules but never even heard of "line of flight".  That's craziness.

Edited August 28, 2020 by sprcoop

[davep043]

14 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

As for Tiger, people sometimes get confused about the drop. They think he was dropping "back on line" when he was actually taking "stroke and distance".

 

As I remember, Tiger was confused.  He was trying to combine back on the line with stroke and distance, going back on the line from where he played his original shot.  And that's why he was penalized.

[nsxguy]

2 minutes ago, davep043 said:

 

As I remember, Tiger was confused.  He was trying to combine back on the line with stroke and distance, going back on the line from where he played his original shot.  And that's why he was penalized.

 

As I understand it you are correct.

 

He was thinking BOL but taking S&D; hence the penalty and what I believe should(?) have been a DQ, at least at that time,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Sawgrass]

1 hour ago, davep043 said:

 

As I remember, Tiger was confused.  He was trying to combine back on the line with stroke and distance, going back on the line from where he played his original shot.  And that's why he was penalized.

The "reason he was penalized" is because he innocently but unforutnately opened his mouth!

[nsxguy]

3 minutes ago, Sawgrass said:

The "reason he was penalized" is because he innocently but unforutnately opened his mouth!

 

LOL

 

OK, I don't remember the entire situation but at some point they certainly could have been "prompted" to investigate the incident without Tiger saying anything,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Edited August 28, 2020 by nsxguy

[davep043]

18 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

LOL

 

OK, I don't remember the entire situation but at some point they certainly could have been "prompted" to investigate the incident without Tiger saying anything,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I think they did look at the video, and didn't notice that he was a couple of yards from his original position.  He did say later that he had dropped it a couple yards further to get a better distance to the flag.  He simply didn't realize that he wasn't allowed to do that under the rules.  Its fair to say that his admission that he had not dropped as near as possible to the original position was the reason he was penalized, otherwise it would have gone pretty much unnoticed.  Or maybe you could say it was TWO factors, his breach of the rule, and his unwitting admission that he had breached the rule.

[nsxguy]

1 minute ago, davep043 said:

I think they did look at the video, and didn't notice that he was a couple of yards from his original position.  He did say later that he had dropped it a couple yards further to get a better distance to the flag.  He simply didn't realize that he wasn't allowed to do that under the rules.  Its fair to say that his admission that he had not dropped as near as possible to the original position was the reason he was penalized, otherwise it would have gone pretty much unnoticed.  Or maybe you could say it was TWO factors, his breach of the rule, and his unwitting admission that he had breached the rule.

 

Now that you recount the situation, that sounds about right. Thanks.

 

"Didn't notice" though ? Hmmmmmm,,,,,,,,

[Sawgrass]

28 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Now that you recount the situation, that sounds about right. Thanks.

 

"Didn't notice" though ? Hmmmmmm,,,,,,,,

I don't think "didn't notice" is quite accurate.  When you are required to play from the previous location, if you don't know precisely where that was you're required to estimate its location.  There's pretty much no way to determine, just by watching, if Tiger made a slight mistake in estimating or deliberately changed the position.  If it had simply been a mistake in locating the previous position, there would have been no penalty.  As it was, Tiger mentioned that he purposefully moved back a bit.  Awkward!

 

 

[nsxguy]

1 minute ago, Sawgrass said:

I don't think "didn't notice" is quite accurate.  When you are required to play from the previous location, if you don't know precisely where that was you're required to estimate its location.  There's pretty much no way to determine, just by watching, if Tiger made a slight mistake in estimating or deliberately changed the position.  If it had simply been a mistake in locating the previous position, there would have been no penalty.  As it was, Tiger mentioned that he purposefully moved back a bit.  Awkward!

 

 

Welllllll, the "didn't notice" I referred to was towards the officials looking at the incident and not noticing he dropped in the wrong spot.

 

Even if Tiger didn't realize it (and I believe he didn't) those looking at the video should have seen it pretty clearly as there was a fair sized divot from where Tiger hit the previous shot.

 

So he did know precisely from where he hit the previous shot. You can see the divot about 4-6 feet in front of where he dropped.

 

 

 

 

[Sawgrass]

We're talking past each other.  What I'm reporting is that the officials did notice, but believed that Tiger accidentally misplaced his drop "from the same spot."  Only later did they understand that he deliberately dropped at the wrong location instead of accidentally miss-estimated the correct location.

[rogolf]

1 hour ago, Sawgrass said:

We're talking past each other.  What I'm reporting is that the officials did notice, but believed that Tiger accidentally misplaced his drop "from the same spot."  Only later did they understand that he deliberately dropped at the wrong location instead of accidentally miss-estimated the correct location.

That is my understanding of the matter.  The Committee had made a ruling on the drop - that it was accidental.  It wasn't until Tiger's interview after the round, when he said that he had done it purposely, that the Committee had new information and made a new decision, reversing their previous decision.

[Mr. Bean]

On 8/28/2020 at 5:24 AM, Sonja Henie said:

I've played golf for 35 years and don't recall ever hearing this "line of flight" nonsense.  

 

I have played only 27 years but have the same experience, never ever heard of that.

[Mr. Bean]

16 hours ago, rogolf said:

That is my understanding of the matter.  The Committee had made a ruling on the drop - that it was accidental.  It wasn't until Tiger's interview after the round, when he said that he had done it purposely, that the Committee had new information and made a new decision, reversing their previous decision.

 

And as they already had given a ruling they were not anymore in the position to DQ Tiger.

 

What a mess...

[nsxguy]

On 8/28/2020 at 4:41 PM, Sawgrass said:

We're talking past each other.  What I'm reporting is that the officials did notice, but believed that Tiger accidentally misplaced his drop "from the same spot."  Only later did they understand that he deliberately dropped at the wrong location instead of accidentally miss-estimated the correct location.

 

I thought they first "missed it" (even though the divot from where he hit previously was clearly visible in the video) and only CAUGHT the violation BECAUSE he described what his thought process with thereby bringing their attention to the fact he dropped in a wrong place.

 

On 8/28/2020 at 6:12 PM, rogolf said:

That is my understanding of the matter.  The Committee had made a ruling on the drop - that it was accidental.  It wasn't until Tiger's interview after the round, when he said that he had done it purposely, that the Committee had new information and made a new decision, reversing their previous decision.

 

I'm missing something as usual.

 

What difference does it make whether he did it accidentally or on purpose ?

[antip]

9 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

I have played only 27 years but have the same experience, never ever heard of that.

It does crop up once in a while here, someone getting this mistaken notion. I suspect for some (perhaps even many?) it is an innocent and accidental misunderstanding because they have hit a stroke directly at the flagstick but a penalty area has intervened and when they've asked where can I drop they've been told anywhere on the line of your flight.......because line of flight and line of play/back on line are one and the same for a straight shot that was heading straight at the flagstick.

[Sawgrass]

1 hour ago, nsxguy said:

 

I thought they first "missed it" (even though the divot from where he hit previously was clearly visible in the video) and only CAUGHT the violation BECAUSE he described what his thought process with thereby bringing their attention to the fact he dropped in a wrong place.

 

 

I'm missing something as usual.

 

What difference does it make whether he did it accidentally or on purpose ?

When you go back to the spot from where you had just hit, if you don’t know where it was you must estimate that spot.  You are allowed to be wrong in your estimation as long as your intention is correct.  But you’re not allowed to intentionally pick a different spot.

 

Tiger had a brain fart, intentionally dropped elsewhere without trying to break the rule. The officials initially reviewed it and judged that he made a slight unintentional (acceptable) error.  In the post round interview he described his (illegal) intention.  The rest is history. 

[rogolf]

3 minutes ago, Sawgrass said:

When you go back to the spot from where you had just hit, if you don’t know where it was you must estimate that spot.  You are allowed to be wrong in your estimation as long as your intention is correct.  But you’re not allowed to intentionally pick a different spot.

 

Tiger had a brain fart, intentionally dropped elsewhere without trying to break the rule. The officials initially reviewed it and judged that he made a slight unintentional (acceptable) error.  In the post round interview he described his (illegal) intention.  The rest is history. 

The price was paid for perceived excellence and some arrogance.

[nsxguy]

34 minutes ago, Sawgrass said:

When you go back to the spot from where you had just hit, if you don’t know where it was you must estimate that spot.  You are allowed to be wrong in your estimation as long as your intention is correct.  But you’re not allowed to intentionally pick a different spot.

 

Tiger had a brain fart, intentionally dropped elsewhere without trying to break the rule. The officials initially reviewed it and judged that he made a slight unintentional (acceptable) error.  In the post round interview he described his (illegal) intention.  The rest is history. 

 

OK, OK, I got it now.

 

Since they believed, when they reviewed it, he was hitting from approximately the same spot there was no infraction.

 

It was only when Tiger admitted he purposely dropped a couple of yards behind the previous spot that he also admitted he intentionally dropped in the wrong place.

 

Thank you (both).

 

[antip]

4 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

OK, OK, I got it now.

 

Since they believed, when they reviewed it, he was hitting from approximately the same spot there was no infraction.

 

It was only when Tiger admitted he purposely dropped a couple of yards behind the previous spot that he also admitted he intentionally dropped in the wrong place.

 

Thank you (both).

 

I recall hearing a Woods quote that suggested it wasn't an "intentional" wrong place; he was thinking he could go back further than the original played position and his motivation was it was closer to his full wedge distance - a tangling of the BOL process rather than knowingly playing from a wrong place.

[Mr. Bean]

4 hours ago, antip said:

I recall hearing a Woods quote that suggested it wasn't an "intentional" wrong place; he was thinking he could go back further than the original played position and his motivation was it was closer to his full wedge distance - a tangling of the BOL process rather than knowingly playing from a wrong place.

 

That is my recollection as well. He did not want to hit the pin again so he went a bit back believing he was allowed to do that as his ball went to a yellow water hazard.