New Level vs Sub 70 vs Hogan?

[halliedog]

I'm about to move about 5 hours away from home in OH to IN, but family is staying home so I'll be traveling back and forth every few weeks.  I don't look forward to packing up the clubs and traveling with them every time, so looking for another set in IND.  

 

I currently play the older model TM 770's and love them.  I could build a "replica set" in IN, but want to expand my horizons.  Looking for opinions on New Level vs Sub 70 vs Hogan, or any other recommendations for DTC companies.  The New Level 902s look pretty sexy, and I can get them in "Heads Only" but with limited time I'll have to play them, want to make sure they aren't too demanding compared to the TM 770s  I'm currently playing.  I hear Sub 70 customer service is excellent, but they won't ship heads only like New Level, so that's a factor - I like to work on my own clubs.  Never really considered Hogan, but since they are in the the same DTC marketplace can't disregard them. I want to build a similar set of irons, but something a little different.  

 

Any suggestions appreciated. (other than clones/knock-offs).

[ProjectX]

Hogan will not ship heads only either FYI. 

[halliedog]

Thanks for that ProjectX.  I wasn't really sold on Hogan anyway, but wanted to keep my options open.  Sub 70 will not ship heads, but I hear if you do all the leg work ahead of time yourself and ship them your shafts/ferrules/grips you want they are open to installing them for you, for a hefty cost.  Too much work for me for the price, after I do all the sourcing, and could build them myself anyway for much less.

Edited September 23, 2020 by halliedog

[RolandofGilead]

1 hour ago, halliedog said:

I'm about to move about 5 hours away from home in OH to IN, but family is staying home so I'll be traveling back and forth every few weeks.  I don't look forward to packing up the clubs and traveling with them every time, so looking for another set in IND.  

 

I currently play the older model TM 770's and love them.  I could build a "replica set" in IN, but want to expand my horizons.  Looking for opinions on New Level vs Sub 70 vs Hogan, or any other recommendations for DTC companies.  The New Level 902s look pretty sexy, and I can get them in "Heads Only" but with limited time I'll have to play them, want to make sure they aren't too demanding compared to the TM 770s  I'm currently playing.  I hear Sub 70 customer service is excellent, but they won't ship heads only like New Level, so that's a factor - I like to work on my own clubs.  Never really considered Hogan, but since they are in the the same DTC marketplace can't disregard them. I want to build a similar set of irons, but something a little different.  

 

Any suggestions appreciated. (other than clones/knock-offs).

I demo'd irons from all three of these companies this past summer. I chose the New Level 902 over the Sub70 639CB and Hogan PTxPro. The NL902s felt miles better than the others. Sub70 639CB was my silver medalist - perhaps marginally more forgiving but a bit squishy-feeling by comparison. The PTxPros just felt relatively empty and hollow to me - probably because they are multi-piece (and multi-material?). The big mass of weight at the bottom of the NL902 cavity gives a high default ball flight and the milled slot gives great stability on mis-hits, especially thin and off the toe side. They are workable. They have a wider sole and more rounded leading edge than the irons I came from, which translates to surprising distance on fat strikes. I have not hit the TM 770s to compare though. My previous iron set was Titleist 735.CM, and these are both more forgiving and powerful at impact than the mid irons in that blended set. I ordered custom loft, lie, and shafts and my order was shipped one day after placement. Really easy to work with, if not as jovial as the Sub70 folks.

[jpbova]

Sub70 doesn’t stock my shafts, or else I would have a set of CB/MBs. So I feel you on heads only

[dmeeksDC]

I am playing the 902 irons (DG 120 shafts) and have previously played the 770s (originals, which are fully forged of 1025 carbon steel, not the foam hollow heads) and I would say they are very comparable. If you can play one you definitely can play the other. Both are quite forgiving for their category of players. The 902 feel excellent and are like a blend of the Bridgestone J15CB and the J40 DPC. It’s a very nice head design. 

 

So I am a fan of the OG 770s and the 902s are right there with them. The 770 long irons have a tungsten bar in the sole (3-7) to boost launch in the long irons if you need that. There actually is nothing like the 770 in TM’s current lineup as the new 770 looks pretty but is radically different feel (a step back IMO) and the 7MC has no tungsten weighting in any heads. I grabbed a set of the OG 770 heads which I still have. The 902s use milled pockets to get the COG low. I have no problem with the 5 iron, which surprised me. 
 

Have not hit any Sub 70 irons. My choice would be some combination of the 699Pro and the 639 CB/MB. I do have their pro 4 wood and 4 hybrid and those are very nice clubs. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by dmeeksDC

[conorgolf22]

I love my 902s and you won't find anyone easier to deal with than Eric.  Go the New Level route and don't look back

[driveandputtmachine]

You can always get a used set of Sub 70's and then swap in your old shafts.  Their prices on their used clubs are pretty good.

[Exactice808]

Sorry I am a slight fan boy as I just ordered my set this Monday, AMAZING customer service and awesome bedside manners.

 

I am specifically questioning the "they dont ship heads"  I was watching and studying sub70 all weekend.  I came across this video

 

 

 

Sorry I DO NOT speak or understand Korean,  (ok maybe just the bad words like most languages LOL)  But he got a WHOLE box of heads only?  I am not sure if this was from another source or a special situation.  But they did receive a box of Sub70 heads only?

 

Has anyone actually called Sub70 and asked?  (I have to assume so) But again just saw this video and thought? Well there was a box of heads only LOL!

[bryanwmilburn]

I haven't had the New Level 902 for long but I can confidently say they are my favorite irons I've ever owned. Look great (a little boxy on the PW and 9 but nothing crazy), minimal offset (which I love), feel incredible, forgiving on mishits, and absolutely perform. I don't see myself changing irons for a long time. For the price - I truly don't think there's a better value in the market. If you need a driving iron - the new NLU driving iron is the best I've ever owned. It's a monster!

[tgoodspe1991]

Funny this thread popped up as I'm contemplating buying a set of irons from these exact three brands!

 

I'm currently between Ben Hogan and New Level primarily. I think the Hogan clubs look absolutely beautiful across the board, but I'm worried they're not going to wear well and feel cheap rather quickly.

 

Also, the New Level irons are all 1020 carbon steel which is going to be the softest heads you'll find on the market. I believe Srixon is the only other major manufacturer using 1020 right now, most others are using 1025 or firmer material. So getting beautiful, classic looking heads that are 1020 carbon forged at that price is hard to pass up...

[spring70]

New Level CS is very good and responsive as well.  I have the 1126 irons and I really like them, Just last night I ordered a 50* New Level M series wedge to go with my set AND a Sub70 699 Pro Utility to try.

 

The 1126's are very soft

[Nixhex524]

3 hours ago, tgoodspe1991 said:

Funny this thread popped up as I'm contemplating buying a set of irons from these exact three brands!

 

I'm currently between Ben Hogan and New Level primarily. I think the Hogan clubs look absolutely beautiful across the board, but I'm worried they're not going to wear well and feel cheap rather quickly.

 

Also, the New Level irons are all 1020 carbon steel which is going to be the softest heads you'll find on the market. I believe Srixon is the only other major manufacturer using 1020 right now, most others are using 1025 or firmer material. So getting beautiful, classic looking heads that are 1020 carbon forged at that price is hard to pass up...

FWIW, I have had my Hogan Icon blacks for about 10 rounds and a few range sessions now and when I clean them up they barely show any wear at all.... I am really impressed with the way the finish is holding up.  Dont let the price or lack of shafts take away from the quality, they are legit.  I demoed the satin Icons and PTx Pros and there is nothing cheap looking about them.  I haven't hit seen or hit any of the others, so I can only speak to my Icons.  For less than $800 to my door, I could not be happier with these.

[seth514]

I only have experience with New Level. I have a M Type 50* wedge and am impressed with the feel, and performance. I also bought a 7 iron in the 623-M model to try out. Shocked how it feels and performs. Easily the most forgiving blade I have hit and comparable, if not better, to my MP18 MMC’s. 
 

 

[Simp]

The Icons are 1020 as well. 

[SecondandGoal]

On 9/23/2020 at 7:41 AM, jpbova said:

Sub70 doesn’t stock my shafts, or else I would have a set of CB/MBs. So I feel you on heads only

If you talk to Jason at Sub70, they'll get and install any shaft you want.

[SecondandGoal]

20 hours ago, Exactice808 said:

Sorry I am a slight fan boy as I just ordered my set this Monday, AMAZING customer service and awesome bedside manners.

 

I am specifically questioning the "they dont ship heads"  I was watching and studying sub70 all weekend.  I came across this video

 

 

 

Sorry I DO NOT speak or understand Korean,  (ok maybe just the bad words like most languages LOL)  But he got a WHOLE box of heads only?  I am not sure if this was from another source or a special situation.  But they did receive a box of Sub70 heads only?

 

Has anyone actually called Sub70 and asked?  (I have to assume so) But again just saw this video and thought? Well there was a box of heads only LOL!

I have. I ordered a driving iron to go with my 699 Pros, and screwed up and ordered the wrong head. Not their fault at all. I asked if they'd sell me just a head so I could swap it out, and they declined, saying they don't sell just heads because they're very strict about QC with their clubs (they were very deferential and went out of their way to say they weren't questioning or insulting my club building skills).

 

They did offer to take the club back and swap the heads free of charge for me, even though it was 100% my mistake. I didn't even have to pay to ship the club back to them, as I had a demo wedge that was due to be returned anyway. I just threw the driving iron in with the demo wedge with a note including the RA number stuck to it.

[SecondandGoal]

I checked out all of them, and wound up going with the Sub 70 699 Pros. I have no doubt I would have been happy with clubs from any of the three, but when the CEO of the company calls personally to apologize for their customer service department not answering an email immediately during a pandemic, the company gets major points. When he calls you back not once or twice, but four times to talk tech and help you figure out the best setup for you in the irons, they get even more bonus points. All their senior leadership is very accessible and hands on with customers.

All that being said, none of it would matter if the clubs didn't deliver, but they definitely do. The 699 Pros are the best irons I've ever owned. They actually remind me a lot of the Edel SL irons I have. Surprisingly forgiving, especially on hits low on the face and out near the toe, which are my main misses. Just an incredible solid yet smooth feeling to them. Great turf interaction. And absolutely incredible value - I'd say these clubs would cost at least 50% more, if not double what they do, if they were coming from a major OEM.

[tgoodspe1991]

5 hours ago, SecondandGoal said:

I checked out all of them, and wound up going with the Sub 70 699 Pros. I have no doubt I would have been happy with clubs from any of the three, but when the CEO of the company calls personally to apologize for their customer service department not answering an email immediately during a pandemic, the company gets major points. When he calls you back not once or twice, but four times to talk tech and help you figure out the best setup for you in the irons, they get even more bonus points. All their senior leadership is very accessible and hands on with customers.

All that being said, none of it would matter if the clubs didn't deliver, but they definitely do. The 699 Pros are the best irons I've ever owned. They actually remind me a lot of the Edel SL irons I have. Surprisingly forgiving, especially on hits low on the face and out near the toe, which are my main misses. Just an incredible solid yet smooth feeling to them. Great turf interaction. And absolutely incredible value - I'd say these clubs would cost at least 50% more, if not double what they do, if they were coming from a major OEM.

How do they feel? I'm not a huge feel snob. I do love a good 1020 iron for softness, but I've also hit many SGI irons that have their own feels that I love too. I see their 699/699 Pro are "455 carpenter steel" which reminds me of PING irons but I'm not sure if it's the same material.

[QuigleyDU]

Of all these companies. Hogan feels the most premium. 

[tgoodspe1991]

49 minutes ago, QuigleyDU said:

Of all these companies. Hogan feels the most premium. 

I was considering the PTx Pro or the Edge. I'm tired of going for the smaller headed irons as, even as a +handicap golfer, blades are just too much work. It's hard to find good images or videos of the irons, but the PTx Pro actually seem like a decently sized iron, almost T200 size from what I could tell which is nice.

 

The Edge is tempting because it's probably the only SGI type of iron with normal lofts and not a 40* PW lol

[Springsteennut]

6 hours ago, SecondandGoal said:

I checked out all of them, and wound up going with the Sub 70 699 Pros. I have no doubt I would have been happy with clubs from any of the three, but when the CEO of the company calls personally to apologize for their customer service department not answering an email immediately during a pandemic, the company gets major points. When he calls you back not once or twice, but four times to talk tech and help you figure out the best setup for you in the irons, they get even more bonus points. All their senior leadership is very accessible and hands on with customers.

All that being said, none of it would matter if the clubs didn't deliver, but they definitely do. The 699 Pros are the best irons I've ever owned. They actually remind me a lot of the Edel SL irons I have. Surprisingly forgiving, especially on hits low on the face and out near the toe, which are my main misses. Just an incredible solid yet smooth feeling to them. Great turf interaction. And absolutely incredible value - I'd say these clubs would cost at least 50% more, if not double what they do, if they were coming from a major OEM.

Exactly my experience with them. I’m probably not considered a better player. I’m usually upper 80s low 90s so I play their GI irons the 739. I got the exact same treatment as anyone that ordered their better player clubs. The same return emails and phone calls( and they weren’t short calls). Jason spent about an hour fitting me at their facility and after I played the irons he spent just as much time a second time to make further adjustments. Not his fault I have some physical issues so my swing isn’t very consistent. My iron play is so much better. He never made me uncomfortable about my physical issues. His only goal was to help me my best golf.  True if the clubs were no good it wouldn’t matter but the 739s  matched up with any GI iron I demoed last summer..

[NixLix26]

I only have experience with New Level, I had a set with 4 iron was 902 and 5-PW was 623M.  They really did feel amazing.  I really have no complaints about the clubs at all. Looked very confident over the ball. A great players set. 

[mikewohlwend]

I have been thinking about getting a New Level 902 and a Sub 70 639 CB and testing them against my 765's.  Make sure I match the loft, lie, shafts and grips so it's an even comparison.  

[SecondandGoal]

21 hours ago, tgoodspe1991 said:

How do they feel? I'm not a huge feel snob. I do love a good 1020 iron for softness, but I've also hit many SGI irons that have their own feels that I love too. I see their 699/699 Pro are "455 carpenter steel" which reminds me of PING irons but I'm not sure if it's the same material.

Feel is absolutely fantastic. Solid as can be, but still amazingly soft. While mishits are minimized, you still know exactly where you missed.

[mws82]

I will make this short and sweet. New Level.

[dmeeksDC]

On 9/24/2020 at 5:55 PM, tgoodspe1991 said:

I was considering the PTx Pro or the Edge. I'm tired of going for the smaller headed irons as, even as a +handicap golfer, blades are just too much work. It's hard to find good images or videos of the irons, but the PTx Pro actually seem like a decently sized iron, almost T200 size from what I could tell which is nice.

 

The Edge is tempting because it's probably the only SGI type of iron with normal lofts and not a 40* PW lol

I think the PTX Pro is slightly more compact than the T200, probably between the T100 and T200. 
 

Feels to be about the perfect size to me. Great irons. I have some photos comparing the PTX Pro to some other heads (like TM770, the originals) and it is overall compact but not too much so.

[tgoodspe1991]

4 hours ago, dmeeksDC said:

I think the PTX Pro is slightly more compact than the T200, probably between the T100 and T200. 
 

Feels to be about the perfect size to me. Great irons. I have some photos comparing the PTX Pro to some other heads (like TM770, the originals) and it is overall compact but not too much so.

Could you share some of those photos?

 

Also, how does the size/offset progress throughout the set? Is it somewhat constant, or is it noticeably progressive like an AP2 style of set?

 

I'm still intrigued with the PTx Pros because of their progressive construction. More solid and "one piece" in the short irons and then hollow-filled in the longer irons.

[Nixhex524]

PTx Pro looks like a Srixon 545 from the top with the heel to toe length of the 745.  Top line is on the thicker side, not off putting, but not too playerish either.   PTx pro feel powerful off the face, no question, but I went Icon as they felt better on the course to me.  Here are some pics, hope they help....

[SecondandGoal]

Another reason to love Sub 70, and a perfect example of their exceptional customer service.

 

I decided to order a utility/driving iron to go with my 699 Pros. I screwed up, and ordered the wrong head. No fault of Sub 70.

 

I asked if I could buy just a head from them, planning on swapping them out myself. They declined, saying for QC purposes, they don't sell heads, only built clubs. They also offered to take the club back and swap the head for me free of charge.

Come to find out, they didn't swap the heads, they just built me a new club to the same specs with the head I wanted. No additional charge to me.