Fantasy trip: A month in Scotland UPDATED: DAILY ITINERARY ADDED

[philsRHman]

Interesting point on TOC and it's value. Without having played it yet, it sure appears to be a great value. It's sits in this $200 range that's significantly less expensive than the most expensive in Scotland, and not wildly more expensive than strong courses that are much lower in the rankings.

 

For example, Muirfield ($325), Kingsbarns ($350), Turnbury Ailsa ($450 weekend), Royal Troon ($300), Dumbarnie ($300), Renaissance Club are all nearly 2x the price if not more.

 

It sits in the same range as North Berwick, Carnoustie, Royal Dornoch and quite a few other big hitters.

 

But what's interesting to me is how it stands out against courses a tier (or several) down.

 

Look at Crail, Leven, Elie, Lundin and they're $100 on average now. I understand that a decade ago, these would have been in the $50 range, so TOC being 4x the price vs. 2x the price, it seems that the demand for Scottish golf has raised the tide for all ships, but The Old Course as remained pretty steady, and if anything is becoming an even greater value (admittedly, I'm not sure how much TOC has risen in price in that same time). 

[philsRHman]

OK, been wrestling with the itinerary. My core principals:

• "Go deep, not wide." I'm trying to play certain courses multiple times (North Berwick, TOC, Cruden Bay). I know from past trips that's how I remember them and really appreciate them over a few rounds, instead of racing to see 20 places I'll never remember.
• Skip the mid-range $125 courses (Crail, Dunbar, Luffness, etc) and slide down to some real offbeat spots in the $20-40 range. That's both a budget saver, letting me afford replays at the key 3, and see some different styles, mix in some short tracks. 
• This assumes no quarantine in the spring. The wife was balking at a full month, and I didn't want to book two weeks and risk a short quarantine period, so this was our compromise (she's sent from heaven). I'll be able to play the first 5 mornings and work in the afternoons from my room.
• I got word back today that Muirfield has an opening, which allowed me to flip the entire trip around and everything started falling into place. East Lothian sets up better from a budget and accessibility standpoint for that week when I have to work.
• If there is a quarantine, I built some flexibility, and other than Muirfield, I can juggle. I might end up scrapping Cruden Bay if I'm facing the quarantine. 

 

So, with that said, here's where I am (yellow are locked in tee times):

 

 

 

Getting all the prices was a chore, so I thought I'd add them here for context. Some are still 2020 prices (and I see a couple math typos but it's mostly correct, also, I didn't realize the conversion is up to 1.35, this was calculated with 1.25, so tack on a few hundred more bucks). I need to figure out caddies, which I'll try to take at least once at my Big 3, plus Muirfield and Carnoustie. But that alone is going to jack the golf budget another $500+. 

 

Those last four days are basically up in the air., based on how I feel and what I've seen and liked. I'll be trying for a second or third round on TOC with Ballot Buddy, but I'll also have days 2 and 3 of my 3-day pass. If I lose Leven-Lundin, so be it. 

 

Anticipating three questions: Kingsbarns is a budget destroyer (and from what I hear, it's in the style of Bandon, which I've been to). If I get quarantined and can shift the Muirfield money, I'll likely add Kingsbarns. And I know I go right past Royal Aberdeen to get to Cruden Bay, but that long hike up is for CB and I want to soak it in as much as I can. And since Castle causes a stir every time mentioned, I had to book it to get my TOC time and the other references are just TBD whichever SA Trust courses are available on a given day.

 

Would love any feedback. Thanks for reading and providing me the forum to write about the planning. I swear, the research and planning are as much a part of the trip experience as the actual travel. 

[El Gringo]

I wonder about Eyemouth as a choice. It isn't a very inspiring course. If you want something very cheap and very cheerful in this area play Alnmouth Village. The village and beach is lovely as well. If you wanted to get adventurous, you could play Alnmouth Village, Warkworth and the back 9 of Seahouses (they do a 9 hole rate and avoid the front 9, it's dire). It's 27 holes total in beautiful surroundings and you will play many interesting holes. It's cheap as chips, should be about 50 quid all in. 

 

I also think you should consider Braid Hills. It is cheap and highly interesting. Could easily be combined with Musselburgh Old. 

[philsRHman]

27 minutes ago, El Gringo said:

I wonder about Eyemouth as a choice. It isn't a very inspiring course. If you want something very cheap and very cheerful in this area play Alnmouth Village. The village and beach is lovely as well. If you wanted to get adventurous, you could play Alnmouth Village, Warkworth and the back 9 of Seahouses (they do a 9 hole rate and avoid the front 9, it's dire). It's 27 holes total in beautiful surroundings and you will play many interesting holes. It's cheap as chips, should be about 50 quid all in. 

 

I also think you should consider Braid Hills. It is cheap and highly interesting. Could easily be combined with Musselburgh Old. 

Interesting, I didn’t explore much into Northumberland. Looks like the others would be nearly another hour past Eyemouth (which I read has some interesting holes) and Goswick, which sounds like a solid round.  Unless they’re complete show stoppers I don’t think I want to spend that much time on the road from my base in North Berwick. But you do have me curious now and I’ll do some more homework. Truth is, that day is likely the first cut if anything goes t**** up earlier in the week.  

I’ll check Braid Hills. I’ll be getting off a play that morning so will have to play that day by ear anyway. One issue is several courses in East Lothian don’t allow visitors until 10 or 1030 on weekdays so they wouldn’t work on my first week. Killspindie seemed to be the one of those I really wanted to see so I slotted it Sunday. 
 

Thanks. 

[Hawkeye77]

6 hours ago, philsRHman said:

Interesting, I didn’t explore much into Northumberland. Looks like the others would be nearly another hour past Eyemouth (which I read has some interesting holes) and Goswick, which sounds like a solid round.  Unless they’re complete show stoppers I don’t think I want to spend that much time on the road from my base in North Berwick. But you do have me curious now and I’ll do some more homework. Truth is, that day is likely the first cut if anything goes t**** up earlier in the week.  

I’ll check Braid Hills. I’ll be getting off a play that morning so will have to play that day by ear anyway. One issue is several courses in East Lothian don’t allow visitors until 10 or 1030 on weekdays so they wouldn’t work on my first week. Killspindie seemed to be the one of those I really wanted to see so I slotted it Sunday. 
 

Thanks. 

So "teats"? LOL, couldn't resist an internet spelling jab by counting asterisks!

 

Killed me we didn't play Kilspindie last year, it was unseasonably cold, rained all afternoon and through the time we would have played and we'd already played one afternoon in hail, so wife and I took a pass, rested and enjoyed a concert that night.  Glad we scheduled two rounds on North Berwick, though, and Glen had incredible views and was a healthy hike up . . . and more up.  Fairways aren't links, and can look a bit weedy, but I loved the course and some holes were awesome. A peek at Glen:

 

[scott_Donald]

Looking at your itinerary and the fact you are on your lonesome, if I am in Scotland, right now I plan to be as the Spring meeting is on May 8, I can take you as a guest on a much better course than Cruden Bay when you are up Aberdeen way. 

 

My life is complicated next year it seems so no guarantee right now. 

 

On a side note, my avi pic is on the 10th tee at Cruden Bay.

Edited December 5, 2020 by scott_Donald

[philsRHman]

46 minutes ago, scott_Donald said:

Looking at your itinerary and the fact you are on your lonesome, if I am in Scotland, right now I plan to be as the Spring meeting is on May 8, I can take you as a guest on a much better course than Cruden Bay when you are up Aberdeen way. 

 

My life is complicated next year it seems so no guarantee right now. 

 

On a side note, my avi pic is on the 10th tee at Cruden Bay.

Thank you very much for the offer. I haven’t done a ton of research on Aberdeen, but Cruden Bay has been high on my list, as it ranks very high in Tom Coyne’s book, and I know Ru from the Scottish Golf Podcast raves about it. if there’s someplace even better I’d love the chance to see it. 
 

[hackerandy]

If you are looking for options I would have Dunbarnie on before Kingsbarns and would try Panmure also 👍

 

 

[Chanceman]

While up near Cruden Bay why not squeeze in a round at Fraserburgh which is very very old (est 1777) and very very cheap (maybe 20gbp) and very very quirky.

[Bargegolf]

Fraserburgh is worthy for sure. If you can get it in great shape ... it is a great links layout... when I played, conditions were average but it will be the lowest cost green fee you will pay on your trip.

[El Gringo]

18 hours ago, philsRHman said:

Interesting, I didn’t explore much into Northumberland. Looks like the others would be nearly another hour past Eyemouth (which I read has some interesting holes) and Goswick, which sounds like a solid round.  Unless they’re complete show stoppers I don’t think I want to spend that much time on the road from my base in North Berwick. But you do have me curious now and I’ll do some more homework. Truth is, that day is likely the first cut if anything goes t**** up earlier in the week.  

I’ll check Braid Hills. I’ll be getting off a play that morning so will have to play that day by ear anyway. One issue is several courses in East Lothian don’t allow visitors until 10 or 1030 on weekdays so they wouldn’t work on my first week. Killspindie seemed to be the one of those I really wanted to see so I slotted it Sunday. 
 

Thanks. 

There is also Winterfield in Dunbar. Its cheap and not without some good holes on the back 9.

[El Gringo]

18 hours ago, philsRHman said:

Interesting, I didn’t explore much into Northumberland. Looks like the others would be nearly another hour past Eyemouth (which I read has some interesting holes) and Goswick, which sounds like a solid round.  Unless they’re complete show stoppers I don’t think I want to spend that much time on the road from my base in North Berwick. But you do have me curious now and I’ll do some more homework. Truth is, that day is likely the first cut if anything goes t**** up earlier in the week.  

I’ll check Braid Hills. I’ll be getting off a play that morning so will have to play that day by ear anyway. One issue is several courses in East Lothian don’t allow visitors until 10 or 1030 on weekdays so they wouldn’t work on my first week. Killspindie seemed to be the one of those I really wanted to see so I slotted it Sunday. 
 

Thanks. 

There is also Winterfield in Dunbar. Its cheap and not without some good holes on the back 9.

[El Gringo]

18 hours ago, philsRHman said:

Interesting, I didn’t explore much into Northumberland. Looks like the others would be nearly another hour past Eyemouth (which I read has some interesting holes) and Goswick, which sounds like a solid round.  Unless they’re complete show stoppers I don’t think I want to spend that much time on the road from my base in North Berwick. But you do have me curious now and I’ll do some more homework. Truth is, that day is likely the first cut if anything goes t**** up earlier in the week.  

I’ll check Braid Hills. I’ll be getting off a play that morning so will have to play that day by ear anyway. One issue is several courses in East Lothian don’t allow visitors until 10 or 1030 on weekdays so they wouldn’t work on my first week. Killspindie seemed to be the one of those I really wanted to see so I slotted it Sunday. 
 

Thanks. 

There is also Winterfield in Dunbar. Its cheap and not without some good holes on the back 9.

[philsRHman]

23 hours ago, hackerandy said:

If you are looking for options I would have Dunbarnie on before Kingsbarns and would try Panmure also 👍

 

 

 

Thanks, I have Panmure in the mix for my Carnoustie day, in case the timing works. But that's right in that spot where, do I really wan to spend £125, which to me is that price range that many of these "not quite star" courses sit.

 

22 hours ago, Chanceman said:

While up near Cruden Bay why not squeeze in a round at Fraserburgh which is very very old (est 1777) and very very cheap (maybe 20gbp) and very very quirky.

 

20 hours ago, Bargegolf said:

Fraserburgh is worthy for sure. If you can get it in great shape ... it is a great links layout... when I played, conditions were average but it will be the lowest cost green fee you will pay on your trip.

 

Fraserburgh has come up a few times now, fits my "cheap finds" model. Definitely one to consider, depending on timing and tee times at Cruden Bay. Looks like a bit of a drive, but not impossible.

 

 

17 hours ago, El Gringo said:

There is also Winterfield in Dunbar. Its cheap and not without some good holes on the back 9.

Happy to mix in a 9 holer in here and there. I'm already starting to question how I'll get into shape for this much golf haha

[milesgiles]

Just my opinion on your new itinerary..

 

the Glen is great views, as long as you know it’s not a links and not a very strong course overall.

Goswick is a showstopper, final Open qualifier currently, so it will be in great condition. Bargain, I’d do 36 there..

Eyemouth was shocking a couple of years ago, neglected and a real disappointment. Far better options, Bamburgh or Dunstanburgh castle aren’t far from Berwick. Could fill in at the Roxburghe (parkland) as well

Leven was also very poor last time I played it 3 years ago. Charmless and expensive.

 

like I’ve lamented many times, there are very few bargains in most of Scotland. One last one I haven’t seen mentioned, have a look at Scotscraig, does hold significant comps and does come up on a deal sometimes 

[philsRHman]

2 hours ago, milesgiles said:

Just my opinion on your new itinerary..

 

the Glen is great views, as long as you know it’s not a links and not a very strong course overall.

Goswick is a showstopper, final Open qualifier currently, so it will be in great condition. Bargain, I’d do 36 there..

Eyemouth was shocking a couple of years ago, neglected and a real disappointment. Far better options, Bamburgh or Dunstanburgh castle aren’t far from Berwick. Could fill in at the Roxburghe (parkland) as well

Leven was also very poor last time I played it 3 years ago. Charmless and expensive.

 

like I’ve lamented many times, there are very few bargains in most of Scotland. One last one I haven’t seen mentioned, have a look at Scotscraig, does hold significant comps and does come up on a deal sometimes 

Sounds like Eyemouth might be coming off the plans, maybe not the gem I'd hoped for. 36 at Goswick might make sense, it's only 15 quid more for a day pass and I'd already be out there, obviously. I've got Scotscraig on my list to fill in any gaps that might arise.

 

I know it sounds absurd to say 3 weeks is going to go fast, but honestly, it's so obvious I have enough options to spend 2 months in that part of Scotland and never get bored. 

[El Gringo]

I disagree with the take on Leven. It's a good course with an incredible standout hole in the 14th.

 

Nearby Kinghorn looks interesting. 

[milesgiles]

5 hours ago, El Gringo said:

I disagree with the take on Leven. It's a good course with an incredible standout hole in the 14th.

 

Nearby Kinghorn looks interesting. 

 

It’s not that it’s a rank bad course. But we paid £70 two years ago, I’m sure it’s more now. For that sort of money in most of England you are looking at real top notch courses.

Leven has a piece of scaffold warm up net, an amusement arcade next to the first tee, no practise area, no riveted bunkers that I saw, and was absolutely rock hard.. they were playing Seniors Open qualifying next door at a much lusher Lundin.

if someone here has played it more recently and had a better experience I’m all ears, for me it remains the worst value course I’ve played in the whole of the U.K, out of 250..

 

[El Gringo]

3 hours ago, milesgiles said:

 

It’s not that it’s a rank bad course. But we paid £70 two years ago, I’m sure it’s more now. For that sort of money in most of England you are looking at real top notch courses.

Leven has a piece of scaffold warm up net, an amusement arcade next to the first tee, no practise area, no riveted bunkers that I saw, and was absolutely rock hard.. they were playing Seniors Open qualifying next door at a much lusher Lundin.

if someone here has played it more recently and had a better experience I’m all ears, for me it remains the worst value course I’ve played in the whole of the U.K, out of 250..

 

I admit value is a personal thing. I am not rushing back to play Leven, but I think it is a quality course that has some conditioning issues (firmness not being a problem at all) and isn't a looker. We just moved balls to better spots. The greens were fine. We did at twilight rates which is about half price. I look at golf as an outdoor game and links which reflect the nature of the weather and seasons is very welcome. Far too many links are over conditioned these days. 

 

[milesgiles]

1 hour ago, El Gringo said:

I admit value is a personal thing. I am not rushing back to play Leven, but I think it is a quality course that has some conditioning issues (firmness not being a problem at all) and isn't a looker. We just moved balls to better spots. The greens were fine. We did at twilight rates which is about half price. I look at golf as an outdoor game and links which reflect the nature of the weather and seasons is very welcome. Far too many links are over conditioned these days. 

 

 

I never thought I would see a links that was ‘too’ firm until that day.. it would bounce like a ping pong ball on the green maybe there’s some golfing masochists who enjoy that..

 

its not the worst course in the world by any means, but if you’re going to charge that much you are raising expectations 

[LukeDonaldsTiger]

If you’re in the Dornoch Area, go to Tain GC. I’m a member there. Beautiful course, pretty cheap to play. 

Also, Fortrose and Rosemarkie is a cool course, located on a peninsula. 

 

One more „cheap and quirky“ option, between Nairn and Cruden: Dufftown. I loved it and my buddy is a member there. 

[El Gringo]

1 hour ago, milesgiles said:

 

I never thought I would see a links that was ‘too’ firm until that day.. it would bounce like a ping pong ball on the green maybe there’s some golfing masochists who enjoy that..

 

its not the worst course in the world by any means, but if you’re going to charge that much you are raising expectations 

80 quid isn't that much these days in Scotland or the US. But value is to each own. I keep track of a list of favourite courses, not best, but favourite. Leven doesn't quite make the Happy 100, but I don't consider it poor value. Probably similar to you, I look for cheaper options which delight. These type of courses are hard to come by. That's why Northumberland is so appealing. 

[philsRHman]

2 hours ago, El Gringo said:

80 quid isn't that much these days in Scotland or the US. But value is to each own. I keep track of a list of favourite courses, not best, but favourite. Leven doesn't quite make the Happy 100, but I don't consider it poor value. Probably similar to you, I look for cheaper options which delight. These type of courses are hard to come by. That's why Northumberland is so appealing. 

I think this is the fair point here. There are almost no links courses within 30 minutes of St. Andrew's for less than Leven, which I have on my sheet at 75 or 85 quid. It's all context, my guess is you put Leven in East Lothian it's 50-60 and put it in the Northeast near Cruden Bay and it's 40. But that's speculation from a guy whose entire Scottish experience right now is in books and internet research.

 

But is Leven at 75 better or worse value than Crail Balcomie at 100? Or Burntisland for 25? Or Panmure at 125? I honestly don't know, that's why I'm going! haha 

 

Strikes me that Lunden, Leven, Elie are all right about the same 75-85 price range (with Crail at 100) and all four are thought of somewhat interchangably in the reviews, with some loving one or another, all a similar distance outside SA. I currently have Elie as a first choice, then Leven and Lundin as a backup plan late in the trip if another TOC round falls through. But maybe a day pass at Crail to get two loops would be preferable to a combo of Leven and Lundin (probably cheaper too). 

 

I suppose most of these links made their names as "under the radar" jaunts when they were half the price of today, and for 150 less than TOC, expectations would have been properly aligned. Suddenly  now they're more than half the price (vs. a quarter or less) and they're held to a standard set by one of the top 10 golf courses in the world (or, against UK prices where those courses aren't within a half hour drive with tens of thousands of captive golf-mad tourist population). Another big topic on this thread--Put the beloved Fraserburgh in Fife and how much is that green fee? It's 60 now, would it be 100?

[philsRHman]

3 hours ago, LukeDonaldsTiger said:

If you’re in the Dornoch Area, go to Tain GC. I’m a member there. Beautiful course, pretty cheap to play. 

Also, Fortrose and Rosemarkie is a cool course, located on a peninsula. 

 

One more „cheap and quirky“ option, between Nairn and Cruden: Dufftown. I loved it and my buddy is a member there. 

Unfortunately, I think Dornoch is going to wait for next time. Always nice to have a new bucket list to chase, and I think there's more to do around Dornoch than I could accomplish in 2 days. 

[LukeDonaldsTiger]

1 minute ago, philsRHman said:

Unfortunately, I think Dornoch is going to wait for next time. Always nice to have a new bucket list to chase, and I think there's more to do around Dornoch than I could accomplish in 2 days. 

Yes there is. I found the Inverness region to be very beautiful. Brora and Tain just being two affordable, great courses. 
Looking forward to seeing how this pans out for you!

[milesgiles]

2 hours ago, LukeDonaldsTiger said:

Yes there is. I found the Inverness region to be very beautiful. Brora and Tain just being two affordable, great courses. 
Looking forward to seeing how this pans out for you!

 

Tain was 70 in the summer this year. I’d love to go to the region myself but even by Scottish standards it’s not cheap. I’m reliably informed it was £30 15 years ago..

[Hawkeye77]

Lundin and Leven are much different courses than Crail, but I didn't get a chance to play them.  Crail has some interesting elevations, you experience the sea a little or a lot on pretty much every hole, and great Old Tom Morris connection. Don't pass it up!

 

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Hawkeye77

[Chanceman]

There is a card you can buy to get a discount at Dornoch, Brora, Tain and Golspie. Excellent way to go for a week up there. You could also buzz along the coast to Wick.

[philsRHman]

17 minutes ago, milesgiles said:

 

Tain was 70 in the summer this year. I’d love to go to the region myself but even by Scottish standards it’s not cheap. I’m reliably informed it was £30 15 years ago..

I'm probably guilty of sidetracking my own thread, but Brora is now  £95 (£120 for the day). I had read an article from just a few years ago that it was half, maybe a third of that. Tain is £70. 

 

One thing I'll be taking away (although it's not particularly relevant here), is what the prices are like vs. US public golf. For example, right now I can play my high quality municipal course for $50-75 (so  £40-55) good for day in, day out golf. You can double or triple that for a more special occasion round locally. But, for a Bandon Dunes or Streamsong, or Pinehurst (I won't even include Pebble Beach which is an outlier), you're talking another double or triple. The question for me will be, where on the spectrum are these mid-range Scottish courses in the £70-100?

 

I think the day-to-day Scottish golfers are members and pay almost nothing compared to what membership in the US costs. So really the high prices are only affecting those of us coming specifically to experience golf, so it's a very interesting and different kind of system.

 

It also makes me wonder what the market is for some of these very low-price courses that are  £15 greens fees. Who exactly are they catering to?

[milesgiles]

24 minutes ago, philsRHman said:

I'm probably guilty of sidetracking my own thread, but Brora is now  £95 (£120 for the day). I had read an article from just a few years ago that it was half, maybe a third of that. Tain is £70. 

 

One thing I'll be taking away (although it's not particularly relevant here), is what the prices are like vs. US public golf. For example, right now I can play my high quality municipal course for $50-75 (so  £40-55) good for day in, day out golf. You can double or triple that for a more special occasion round locally. But, for a Bandon Dunes or Streamsong, or Pinehurst (I won't even include Pebble Beach which is an outlier), you're talking another double or triple. The question for me will be, where on the spectrum are these mid-range Scottish courses in the £70-100?

 

I think the day-to-day Scottish golfers are members and pay almost nothing compared to what membership in the US costs. So really the high prices are only affecting those of us coming specifically to experience golf, so it's a very interesting and different kind of system.

 

It also makes me wonder what the market is for some of these very low-price courses that are  £15 greens fees. Who exactly are they catering to?

 

 

No doubt uk memberships are very cheap compared to the States, Sunningdale for example is, give or take, as good as it get, and is around $5k pa. Scotland is getting to the point where it will be cheaper to join a club than pay a green fee..

 

the market is charging what the Americans in particular will pay. I think it’s a bad look for the Home of Golf personally, don’t know when or if I’ll be back..