Fantasy trip: A month in Scotland UPDATED: DAILY ITINERARY ADDED

[milesgiles]

1 hour ago, Chanceman said:

There is a card you can buy to get a discount at Dornoch, Brora, Tain and Golspie. Excellent way to go for a week up there. You could also buzz along the coast to Wick.

 

I looked at it, and honestly it didn’t represent much of a saving. It’s actually the only bit of the mainland I’ve never been to 

[El Gringo]

9 hours ago, philsRHman said:

I think this is the fair point here. There are almost no links courses within 30 minutes of St. Andrew's for less than Leven, which I have on my sheet at 75 or 85 quid. It's all context, my guess is you put Leven in East Lothian it's 50-60 and put it in the Northeast near Cruden Bay and it's 40. But that's speculation from a guy whose entire Scottish experience right now is in books and internet research.

 

But is Leven at 75 better or worse value than Crail Balcomie at 100? Or Burntisland for 25? Or Panmure at 125? I honestly don't know, that's why I'm going! haha 

 

Strikes me that Lunden, Leven, Elie are all right about the same 75-85 price range (with Crail at 100) and all four are thought of somewhat interchangably in the reviews, with some loving one or another, all a similar distance outside SA. I currently have Elie as a first choice, then Leven and Lundin as a backup plan late in the trip if another TOC round falls through. But maybe a day pass at Crail to get two loops would be preferable to a combo of Leven and Lundin (probably cheaper too). 

 

I suppose most of these links made their names as "under the radar" jaunts when they were half the price of today, and for 150 less than TOC, expectations would have been properly aligned. Suddenly  now they're more than half the price (vs. a quarter or less) and they're held to a standard set by one of the top 10 golf courses in the world (or, against UK prices where those courses aren't within a half hour drive with tens of thousands of captive golf-mad tourist population). Another big topic on this thread--Put the beloved Fraserburgh in Fife and how much is that green fee? It's 60 now, would it be 100?

In Fife the courses I go back paying full fare are:

 

St Andrews New

The Old Course

Elie

St Andrews Eden

Crail

 

I haven't played Dunmbarnie and likely won't. Kingsbarns is without doubt a great course and very pretty, its just too expensive for me. I also don't care for the resort feel of the place. Not in Fife, but an easy day trip, Gleneagles Kings too is a great course and the set up is terrific. If you are going to splash out with the Mrs, this is the place to stay and play for a few nights. Again, too expensive for me, but I think very highly of the Kings. I like Carnoustie Burnside (again, a very easy day trip), but prices there have steadily gone up and made it a less attractive proposition. I have a soft spot for Anstruther, but its just a quick knock about 9 holes and fish and chips....nice way to end a day if you are looking for a quaint second game of the day.

 

In East Lothian the courses I go back paying full fare are Gullane 3 and North Berwick,  I consider Goswick an easy day trip so I include that as well.  I don't focus much on Kilspindie, but it makes my Happy 100. In the past few years the green fee has gone way up. It used to be cheap and cheerful, its now at least 65 quid. Dunbar also makes my Happy 100, but it too has become quite expensive in recent years....too much for me. 

 

All the courses being discussed are at least good or interesting. Much depends on what floats your boat.  A few pix of Anstruther.

Edited December 8, 2020 by El Gringo

[philsRHman]

Wow, if I didn’t already have Ansthruther on my list it would be added after that last picture alone. I’m already planning thst any downtime, or days I just don’t feel 36 in my legs, Ansthruther and fish and chips will fill the gap. In fact, I’m starting to think I’m slightly over scheduled, except that several of those SA days there’s no dire need for a second round, and if I decide I need a day off to relax and explore, so be it. I’m by myself and figure I’ll be booking on the fly on maybe of these, so I can wing it. And if I play a play I absolutely love, I have enough time to go back. 
 

[Chanceman]

9 hours ago, milesgiles said:

 

I looked at it, and honestly it didn’t represent much of a saving. It’s actually the only bit of the mainland I’ve never been to 

Well I bought the card to play Brora and Dornoch. After just the two courses I was about 20 GBP ahead. Enough for a pint and a pie, so not complaining.

[El Gringo]

6 hours ago, philsRHman said:

Wow, if I didn’t already have Ansthruther on my list it would be added after that last picture alone. I’m already planning thst any downtime, or days I just don’t feel 36 in my legs, Ansthruther and fish and chips will fill the gap. In fact, I’m starting to think I’m slightly over scheduled, except that several of those SA days there’s no dire need for a second round, and if I decide I need a day off to relax and explore, so be it. I’m by myself and figure I’ll be booking on the fly on maybe of these, so I can wing it. And if I play a play I absolutely love, I have enough time to go back. 
 

Gullane 3 is also a favourite of mine. In the first photo, to the left is Luffness New....also a good course with a lovely house.  It shares the same lovely turf as Gullane.  Across Aberlady Bay in the first photo is Kilspindie.  The drive coming from the west toward North Berwick is fantastic.  Golf courses dotted about here and there. 

Edited December 8, 2020 by El Gringo

[El Gringo]

Dunbar is also very cool.  Play goes right down to the sea.

Edited December 8, 2020 by El Gringo

[El Gringo]

People tend to skip St Andrews Eden, which is a mistake...great greens.  The course is short so its a quick game, good for travel days.  There are a few dire holes at the far end which are fairly new, but overall the course is very good.

Edited December 8, 2020 by El Gringo

[scott_Donald]

I posted a long post about Aberdeen, it didn't appear as it needed moderated. Just thought why - Presi was mentioned. Cant think what I typed so won't re do it. 

 

I find these threads fascinated about Scottish golf and what people like and don't like. 

 

For me the best course in Scotland is Turnberry, it isn't hard but wow its gorgeous. I lucked out last year with a perfect day to play. I started so badly too, had the duck hooks for the first 6 holes, then under par for the last 12. I will play there in 2021 and its expensive!

 

If I actually got home for August this year I would have played - Old Course(with New Club member), Dunmbarnie(deal to residents with my dad as neither have ever played it), Royal Aberdeen(member so almost every day) and Cruden Bay(dad member). On a normal year my dad does a 4 day weekend at Gleneagles;  so we either play Kings or PGA(Kings is the better course). 

 

Now I am used to paying to play golf, its all about whether it is worth it to play for the money, I now have in my head here in Houston as Memorial Park Course(Houston Open course this year) as the gold standard for value and quality and compare all courses here to that. In Scotland I use Royal Aberdeen as my measuring stick and to me there are very few that are worth paying for. 

[philsRHman]

This thread is really becoming a nice place to read local, unvarnished opinions. You might think it would dampen my enthusiasm, but somehow it's just adding to my curiosity and my desire to go see for myself. Thanks for all the participation and opinions, and keep them coming. I'm taking them all under consideration.

[Hawkeye77]

Just a reminder that Brora after 3 pm during prime season at 55 pounds is one heck of a good price - just a reminder that more often than not framing the issue in terms of rates during busy times/busy season isn’t always representative of what you can get for rates. 

 

[srs06d]

4 hours ago, philsRHman said:

This thread is really becoming a nice place to read local, unvarnished opinions. You might think it would dampen my enthusiasm, but somehow it's just adding to my curiosity and my desire to go see for myself. Thanks for all the participation and opinions, and keep them coming. I'm taking them all under consideration.

I've been following along with your thread as I too rescheduled an April 2020 trip for the last week of April 2021 (wish I was going in May tbh). Loving the pictures in this thread as they are of all the courses I'm trying to decide between for my afternoon rounds. Doesn't make it any easier to decide! I'm curious if you've purchased your airline tickets yet for 2021? I've been checking everyday and can't convince myself to pull the trigger.

Edited December 8, 2020 by srs06d
spelling

[philsRHman]

24 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Just a reminder that Brora after 3 pm during prime season at 55 pounds is one heck of a good price - just a reminder that more often than not framing the issue in terms of rates during busy times/busy season isn’t always representative of what you can get for rates. 

 

This is an interesting point. I'd noticed last year that quite a few SA courses take part in Golf Now and other similar tee time services. As a single, I might benefit from staying flexible. I can't remember exactly who is on there (certainly not the big names) but I have to think that mid and low tier will be.

[philsRHman]

18 minutes ago, srs06d said:

I've been following along with your thread as I too rescheduled an April 2020 trip for the last week of April 2021 (wish I was going in May tbh). Loving the pictures in this thread as they are of all the courses I'm trying to decide between for my afternoon rounds. Doesn't make it any easier to decide! I'm curious if you've purchased your airline tickets yet for 2021? I've been checking everyday and can't convince myself to pull the trigger.

Same, I can't yet pull the trigger. I feel like I got bailed out because United let me get a refund this year, given all the travel restrictions. I see they're offering free changes, which is a bonus, but had I accepted their original offer last year, I would have had to use a voucher by now, since it would expire 1 year from booking (not travel dates). 

 

That said, my flights are sitting about $150 lower than a year ago (850 vs. 1000). I feel like I should just book, but now I'm holding out since about a month ago, they were more like $300 cheaper, and have been a roller coaster for 2-3 months now. If I see anything in the 700s I'll likely grab it.

 

Funny you mention April vs. May. Last year I decided to risk the weather with the promise of relatively small crowds on the first week of SA high season. Decided in 2021 the crowds would be naturally thinner. But now I am missing some of the discounts I would gotten in April, and as I work on lodging, I was surprised how few responses I got on the Stay In St. Andrews blanket enquiry. Last year I had about a dozen options, and this year I think I have two responses 3 days later. Also, rental car is a lot more expensive. I had it for $250 for 9 days and this year it's 850 for 21 days (definitely not something I had budgeted for, but so be it). 

[Hawkeye77]

24 minutes ago, philsRHman said:

This is an interesting point. I'd noticed last year that quite a few SA courses take part in Golf Now and other similar tee time services. As a single, I might benefit from staying flexible. I can't remember exactly who is on there (certainly not the big names) but I have to think that mid and low tier will be.

I can't attest to how Golf Now works, but the courses themselves usually show a calendar (some you may have to register with the course's site to see) with tee times and show the times (sometimes early, but usually later) that are cheaper, and I still think most will put those rates on the website but some not, just on the calendar.  Either Lundin or Leven we decided to play on Sunday afternoon, but calling that day we found out the times we wanted to play later in the day were reserved times for members later on Sunday afternoon - that was a new one.

 

Heck, we could have played Traigh for free, shop all locked up and closed middle of the afternoon, but we used the honesty box!

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Hawkeye77

[srs06d]

@philsRHman I feel like I could have typed the exact same response! Same scenario with the flights, I got bailed out by AA. I'm looking at a United flight that would be just under $800. I think I'm going to commit to it because my fear is the price going over $1,000. 

 

I'm experiencing the same increases with the rental car. I keep checking every day but not much movement. 

 

Regarding lodging, I rebooked the VRBO I had planned for 2020. Obviously can't attest to the unit since I didn't go but the owners have been wonderful to work with throughout this whole process.

https://www.vrbo.com/10240722ha?unitId=5265523&arrival=2021-04-28&departure=2021-04-30&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=earned:vrbo:sharecopylink:USA&utm_content=10240722ha&oc=ott7AWuKLK5asnVTVEON5

 

 

[philsRHman]

I should check VRBO. I've noticed in North Berwick, where I'll need more space since I'll be working the first week, anyplace that's on AirBNB and also I can find listed elsewhere, it's significantly cheaper (like, half the price if not more, I guess to account for the platform fees). When I looked in St. Andrews, I was surprised AirBNB didn't have more small accomodations, everything in the 2-plus room size, I figured it would be the perfect type of college town where small apartments would be available. What you have there is about double what I expect to pay for a single in a B&B (but I'll also get breakfast). Goig to poke around.

[El Gringo]

7 hours ago, philsRHman said:

This thread is really becoming a nice place to read local, unvarnished opinions. You might think it would dampen my enthusiasm, but somehow it's just adding to my curiosity and my desire to go see for myself. Thanks for all the participation and opinions, and keep them coming. I'm taking them all under consideration.

It's important to note that for the most part, the starting place for all these courses is at least good. Whatever happens for a course to be endearing is hit and miss. Bottom line, you can't go badly wrong. Follow your gut and crack on. 

[milesgiles]

On 12/8/2020 at 6:51 PM, Hawkeye77 said:

Just a reminder that Brora after 3 pm during prime season at 55 pounds is one heck of a good price - just a reminder that more often than not framing the issue in terms of rates during busy times/busy season isn’t always representative of what you can get for rates. 

 

 

Doesnt change my opinion because I can say the same about anywhere in England by comparison.. the first and second tier Scottish courses are twice as expensive as their English counterparts. No way Goswick or Silloth isn’t well north of £100 if they were, er, well north.. 

[Hawkeye77]

28 minutes ago, milesgiles said:

 

Doesnt change my opinion because I can say the same about anywhere in England by comparison.. the first and second tier Scottish courses are twice as expensive as their English counterparts. No way Goswick or Silloth isn’t well north of £100 if they were, er, well north.. 

I was just putting in a plug for checking times that were less expensive during the day - 55 pounds to play Brora is a great rate, IMO.  The rest is definitely up to individual opinions and the market, no question.

[philsRHman]

On 12/8/2020 at 2:53 PM, srs06d said:

@philsRHman I feel like I could have typed the exact same response! Same scenario with the flights, I got bailed out by AA. I'm looking at a United flight that would be just under $800. I think I'm going to commit to it because my fear is the price going over $1,000. 

 

I'm experiencing the same increases with the rental car. I keep checking every day but not much movement. 

 

Regarding lodging, I rebooked the VRBO I had planned for 2020. Obviously can't attest to the unit since I didn't go but the owners have been wonderful to work with throughout this whole process.

https://www.vrbo.com/10240722ha?unitId=5265523&arrival=2021-04-28&departure=2021-04-30&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=earned:vrbo:sharecopylink:USA&utm_content=10240722ha&oc=ott7AWuKLK5asnVTVEON5

 

 

Got my rental car for $95 less tonight so cancelled one and made a new reservation with Sixt. Never used them but they seem legit. 
 

And flights dropped about $50 but I’m holding out a bit longer on that. 

[scott_Donald]

7 hours ago, philsRHman said:

Got my rental car for $95 less tonight so cancelled one and made a new reservation with Sixt. Never used them but they seem legit. 
 

And flights dropped about $50 but I’m holding out a bit longer on that. 

 

I used SIXT in Florida for a long weekend but never again! hope they are better in Scotland.

 

I will need a hire car for whenever I actually get to go home next year - I normally use Enterprise or Alamo but I am lucky I have fleet insurance in Britain so don't have to pay for that on the base price. 

[Hawkeye77]

13 hours ago, philsRHman said:

Got my rental car for $95 less tonight so cancelled one and made a new reservation with Sixt. Never used them but they seem legit. 
 

And flights dropped about $50 but I’m holding out a bit longer on that. 

FWIW, I had a great experience with Sixt at the Edinburgh Airport two years ago.  When I got there somehow and by mistake they had us in an overly large minivan.  The young gentleman who got to deal with me just said, "let's go see" and next thing we were out touring the lot for something smaller and more appropriate, ended up with a nice Rover SUV at no extra charge and pretty easy process getting things sorted out.  Return was a breeze.  Here she is from behind, lol, at the house we rented just down the hill from Royal Dornoch.

[Hawkeye77]

Used Arnold Clark off premises from Glasgow Airport a year ago.  Great vehicle, got incredible mileage but can't remember what make it was.  The Arnold Clark office wasn't real people person-y, doors were open a few minutes before the "official" morning opening time (we flew overnight), people there but, lol, no way anyone was looking to catch our eye even one second before the appointed hour for the 30 minutes they walked past us doing whatever that morning. We just stood patiently.  When opening time arrived, had to go in and get someone's attention and we were handled quickly, politely and the woman who came from back in the office to get us off and running was apparently the nice and welcoming one!  Anyway, we got going, had a good vehicle and return process again was easy.  Here's a pic, nice size for the two of us, great mileage and a "turbo" (it really had one, but it's in quotes because probably not what an "enthusiast" would appreciate, but hey, when I wanted a little extra it delivered).  It's the blue one up front, outside the really nice B&B we had up the hill and the back of which (and our gigantic room) overlooked Royal Troon.

 

 

[philsRHman]

Spent this week emailing a few innkeepers to try getting a little more

context. Lodging in North Berwick is very light. Almost everyone I’ve contacted had vacancy, and it sounds like they’re really struggling to fill up. Golf, on the other hand, North Berwick says their tee sheets are quite full with a lot of people pushing from ‘20 to ‘21.
 

In St Andrews, lodging seems much harder to come by. But  then I realized next summer was The Open, and I’m pretty sure that gobbled up a ton of rooms from visitors and maybe they’re just sticking with their trips. 
 

All in all, I think I’m getting close, started booking a few things. But I made the big mistake today of summing up all my excel price lists and wowza: golf, car, hotels, flights (not including food or booze). Anything I’m forgetting?
 

Part of me is like, holy crap, $7500!!! But then I’m like, dude you’ve saved up for this trip for a decade, and it’s THREE WEEKS! Plus, I saved $3-4k this year and plan to save $3-4k next year by playing public golf vs private. But it’s still just such a big number to stare at. 

[shortstop20]

1 hour ago, philsRHman said:

Spent this week emailing a few innkeepers to try getting a little more

context. Lodging in North Berwick is very light. Almost everyone I’ve contacted had vacancy, and it sounds like they’re really struggling to fill up. Golf, on the other hand, North Berwick says their tee sheets are quite full with a lot of people pushing from ‘20 to ‘21.
 

In St Andrews, lodging seems much harder to come by. But  then I realized next summer was The Open, and I’m pretty sure that gobbled up a ton of rooms from visitors and maybe they’re just sticking with their trips. 
 

All in all, I think I’m getting close, started booking a few things. But I made the big mistake today of summing up all my excel price lists and wowza: golf, car, hotels, flights (not including food or booze). Anything I’m forgetting?
 

Part of me is like, holy crap, $7500!!! But then I’m like, dude you’ve saved up for this trip for a decade, and it’s THREE WEEKS! Plus, I saved $3-4k this year and plan to save $3-4k next year by playing public golf vs private. But it’s still just such a big number to stare at. 

The Open at St Andrews has been pushed back to 2022 as it will be the 150th. The Open will be played at Royal St George's in 2021. 

[scott_Donald]

1 hour ago, philsRHman said:

Spent this week emailing a few innkeepers to try getting a little more

context. Lodging in North Berwick is very light. Almost everyone I’ve contacted had vacancy, and it sounds like they’re really struggling to fill up. Golf, on the other hand, North Berwick says their tee sheets are quite full with a lot of people pushing from ‘20 to ‘21.
 

In St Andrews, lodging seems much harder to come by. But  then I realized next summer was The Open, and I’m pretty sure that gobbled up a ton of rooms from visitors and maybe they’re just sticking with their trips. 
 

All in all, I think I’m getting close, started booking a few things. But I made the big mistake today of summing up all my excel price lists and wowza: golf, car, hotels, flights (not including food or booze). Anything I’m forgetting?
 

Part of me is like, holy crap, $7500!!! But then I’m like, dude you’ve saved up for this trip for a decade, and it’s THREE WEEKS! Plus, I saved $3-4k this year and plan to save $3-4k next year by playing public golf vs private. But it’s still just such a big number to stare at. 

 

St Andrews is just a popular place to go for everyone, I know a few folk with homes there.

[philsRHman]

Quick update as the calendar flips. Havent done much new. Keeping an eye on the virus updates. Havent booked anything non-refundable yet (no lodging in N Berwick, no Muirfield tee time, no flights). Realizing that I will have to make a decision in about 8 weeks of whether to pull the plug again, as that’s when most of my lodging and tee times will have their 60 day refund period kick in. 
Feels more and more like I’m going to be about 1-2 months ahead of the vaccine and the softening of quarantine rules. 

[scott_Donald]

As a Scottish person looking in at Scotland right now, everyone seems very scared right now, the media has led it that way. With the situation in every country, you cannot argue with hospital numbers and putting stress on them. UK seems to be firing out the vaccine to the most vulnerable very fast. 

 

The other major problem is everyone needs money and they need to fully open up the country soon or there will be no outside money coming in again(2020) and that for any country is horrendous. Look at Austria saying there is no way we are closing ski resorts. The easier spreading variant, there has been loads of them, we had one in Houston last June but it was barely mentioned outside Texas. 

 

I would certainly hold tight to the last minute. 

 

EDIT - just as I type this - news flash; Scotland is in full lockdown until end of January from midnight tonight. 

Edited January 4, 2021 by scott_Donald

[philsRHman]

I fully recognize how petty and inconsequential my golf trip is in the grand scheme of things. I hope it doesn't come across that I'm being callous at all. I absolutely DON'T see the virus as any kind of inconvenience at all, and I'm nervous that if it's still raging I will not want to leave my family for this extended time. On the flip side, I'm trying to be ready if and when the green light comes, as I've been very careful throughout the pandemic. Not trying to skirt any rules, just hoping the vaccine rollout proves to be the solution we need on both sides of the Atlantic. That said, I'm also fully in favor of even stricter measures in the coming weeks and months, because just imagine getting sick now, when the vaccine is here and the end is in sight. If The Open wasn't going to complicate 2022, I would have already made the call to push back again.

[scott_Donald]

39 minutes ago, philsRHman said:

I fully recognize how petty and inconsequential my golf trip is in the grand scheme of things. I hope it doesn't come across that I'm being callous at all. I absolutely DON'T see the virus as any kind of inconvenience at all, and I'm nervous that if it's still raging I will not want to leave my family for this extended time. On the flip side, I'm trying to be ready if and when the green light comes, as I've been very careful throughout the pandemic. Not trying to skirt any rules, just hoping the vaccine rollout proves to be the solution we need on both sides of the Atlantic. That said, I'm also fully in favor of even stricter measures in the coming weeks and months, because just imagine getting sick now, when the vaccine is here and the end is in sight. If The Open wasn't going to complicate 2022, I would have already made the call to push back again.

 

I am not saying anything negative about your trip - I am just back from 12 days skiing in Colorado, Jackson Hole and Salt Lake City. Going again in 6 weeks to Salt Lake City. 

 

To me life has to continue but be sensible(mask, hands etc)

 

I was just trying to get you a Scottish side, since I follow it daily.