Soft Step or Hard Step Twice?

[leftycabe]

Hey Guys, I'm going to be ordering a new set of irons and the company does not offer the KBS Tour Stiff + that I typically used and have been very comfortable with over the yeras. So, I'm trying to decide if I should hard step a Stiff 2 times or Soft Step an X Flex one time. I know one of the answers is that it depends what I prefer my weight to be but I didn't know if there was something else I might be missing. I've looked at all the frequency charts, but thought I'd run it by all of you to see if there was something I was missing. 

 

My swing tends to get a bit long and my fault tends to be over the top. I've heard both sides of this in that a heavier shaft may help you drop the club in the slot and I've also heard that a lighter shaft is easier to control. To me, It's just a matter of needing to work on my swing and an equipment decision is not going to change that tendancy. 

 

Thanks for your thoughts!

[Howard_Jones]

When we soft or hard stepp, we move shaft weight, flex and ball flight.
Soft stepping gives a weight loss equal to 0.5" for each stepp, hard stepping the opposite.
Soft stepping adds tip length and moves profile against higher launch, hard stepping the opposite.

KBS Tour uses variable wall thickness and the same step pattern for all flexes, so its really thicker shaft walls alone that moves both weight and flex in the KBS Tour series.

We can use the formula 1 grams = 1 CPM, so S+ who is 5 grams up from S is also 5 CPM stronger.
Soft or hard stepping moves butt CPM with average 4 CPM for each step, so if we now list them as FCM values and "comparable shaft weight" like we should judge them after tweaking the numbers for hard or soft stepping, your "map" looks like this:

KBS Tour S = FCM 6.0 - 120 grams - MID flight
KBS Tour S Hard stepped 1X = FCM 6.4 - 121.5 grams - LOW/MID flight
KBS Tour S+ = FCM 6.5 = 125 grams - MID flight
KBS Tour X Soft stepped 1x = FCM 6.4 = 128.5 grams MID/High flight

IF your soft stepped X 2x, you get down to FCM 6.2 - 127 grams HIGH LAUNCH
If You hard stepp S 2x, you get to FCM 6.8 - 123 grams - LOW LAUNCH

So, since variable wall thickness is what makes the difference between KBS Tour models, we cant hard or soft stepp to replace a model you cant find, we will be messing with flight pattern since we either go longer or shorter tip side, so even if we can move weight "close" at SS2 or HS2, we now have totally different shafts with either 1.0" longer or 1.0" shorter tip sections.

The closest we can get, is to combine SS2 with 9/16 tip trim who means all heads needs a ream job to 0.370. We start from X flex, then we move shafts for install to SS2, then we tip trim all shafts 9/16".

We ends up 2 grams higher (about 127 grams comparable wgt) vs S+ 125 gr., and with a tip section thats 7/16" longer, so we do alter flight pattern against higher than standard, but this is the closest we can get against S+ when we cant find that one. Flex is as close as can be as 6.6 vs a target of 6.5, so here we took advantage of the weight loss at SS2, and used tip trim to get flex back up, and flight pattern a bit lower again.



 

Edited October 5, 2020 by Howard_Jones

[leftycabe]

2 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

When we soft or hard stepp, we move shaft weight, flex and ball flight.
Soft stepping gives a weight loss equal to 0.5" for each stepp, hard stepping the opposite.
Soft stepping adds tip length and moves profile against higher launch, hard stepping the opposite.

KBS Tour uses variable wall thickness and the same step pattern for all flexes, so its really thicker shaft walls alone that moves both weight and flex in the KBS Tour series.

We can use the formula 1 grams = 1 CPM, so S+ who is 5 grams up from S is also 5 CPM stronger.
Soft or hard stepping moves butt CPM with average 4 CPM for each step, so if we now list them as FCM values and "comparable shaft weight" like we should judge them after tweaking the numbers for hard or soft stepping, your "map" looks like this:

KBS Tour S = FCM 6.0 - 120 grams - MID flight
KBS Tour S Hard stepped 1X = FCM 6.4 - 121.5 grams - LOW/MID flight
KBS Tour S+ = FCM 6.5 = 125 grams - MID flight
KBS Tour X Soft stepped 1x = FCM 6.4 = 128.5 grams MID/High flight

IF your soft stepped X 2x, you get down to FCM 6.2 - 127 grams HIGH LAUNCH
If You hard stepp S 2x, you get to FCM 6.8 - 123 grams - LOW LAUNCH

So, since variable wall thickness is what makes the difference between KBS Tour models, we cant hard or soft stepp to replace a model you cant find, we will be messing with flight pattern since we either go longer or shorter tip side, so even if we can move weight "close" at SS2 or HS2, we now have totally different shafts with either 1.0" longer or 1.0" shorter tip sections.

The closest we can get, is to combine SS2 with 9/16 tip trim who means all heads needs a ream job to 0.370. We start from X flex, then we move shafts for install to SS2, then we tip trim all shafts 9/16".

We ends up 2 grams higher (about 127 grams comparable wgt) vs S+ 125 gr., and with a tip section thats 7/16" longer, so we do alter flight pattern against higher than standard, but this is the closest we can get against S+ when we cant find that one. Flex is as close as can be as 6.6 vs a target of 6.5, so here we took advantage of the weight loss at SS2, and used tip trim to get flex back up, and flight pattern a bit lower again.



 

This is genuinely the most incredibly helpful response I’ve ever gotten on this site and that is saying a lot! 
 

this may be a stupid question, but should I consider the Project X LZ rather than messing with the hard or soft stepping of the KBS? I’ve played the LZ in a set in the past. I loved the feel of those shafts but played them at 6.0 and felt they were inconsistent for me. I have a good feeling that the 6.5s would be a better fit and maintain the feel I love with the KBS. 

[driveandputtmachine]

Do you have a set of irons with the KBS Tour S+?  In your original post you stated they were your shaft of choice.  If so order whatever is selling for the most on ebay or something you think you can sell when you install in your old heads.  Pull the S+ from your old irons and install them in your new irons.  Or order the PX and try them and if they don't work out then swap them for the S+.

 

The only thing there would be dealing with the possible BBGM difference or insertion difference between sets you have played and your new set. This would probably be your best bet rather than finding something close.

 

Personally, once I find an iron shaft that helps my tempo and dispersion I am not apt to get something close, or similar.  Then all I have to do is take into account the insertion and BBGM possible differences.

 

You can talk to five different people and get five different feel answers, which is the big issue.  Sure Howard or Stuart can give you the technical readouts and possibly some others on here, but that doesn't tell you what the physical changes of the shaft will do to your swing.  Balance point and weight differences can throw off your timing.  With your timing off there are all sorts of things that go wrong in a swing, and each thing is different for each person.

[Howard_Jones]

4 hours ago, leftycabe said:

This is genuinely the most incredibly helpful response I’ve ever gotten on this site and that is saying a lot! 
 

this may be a stupid question, but should I consider the Project X LZ rather than messing with the hard or soft stepping of the KBS? I’ve played the LZ in a set in the past. I loved the feel of those shafts but played them at 6.0 and felt they were inconsistent for me. I have a good feeling that the 6.5s would be a better fit and maintain the feel I love with the KBS. 

If you are familiar with LZ and liked that profile, but dont have playing experience from KBS and dont have the option for a side by side test, then the LZ would have been my choice. 

For your info, LZ is 0.5" shorter than KBS Tour uncut, so if you could have both, LZ 6.5 would be 125 grams and KBS Tour S+ should be seen as 123.5 in the comparison between this 2 options.

[toddmanley]

5 hours ago, driveandputtmachine said:

Personally, once I find an iron shaft that helps my tempo and dispersion I am not apt to get something close, or similar.  Then all I have to do is take into account the insertion and BBGM possible differences.

I've been doing this too with my current KBS $-Taper 120's.  Love these shafts and have great results shafting them up with different iron heads.  

[Rowlande08]

Resurrecting this thread because I have a similar question. Does anyone have a chart that shows weight of SS ans SSx2 for Project X shafts?

[Pepperturbo]

1 hour ago, Rowlande08 said:

Resurrecting this thread because I have a similar question. Does anyone have a chart that shows weight of SS ans SSx2 for Project X shafts?

There's one posted here, but I have no idea what thread or when it was posted.  You might ask Howard.  Don't have weight, here's all that I have regarding PX.  I played PX 6.0 for 15+yrs, 5.5 for 1yr and now play PX Red 6.0, stock. 

 

SS is soft-stepped

 

PX5.5ss = 5.8FCM

PX5.5 = 6.0FCM

PX5.5hs = 6.2FCM

PX6.0ss = 6.3FCM

PX6.0 = 6.5FCM

PX6.0hs = 6.7FCM

 

[Howard_Jones]

12 hours ago, Rowlande08 said:

Resurrecting this thread because I have a similar question. Does anyone have a chart that shows weight of SS ans SSx2 for Project X shafts?

Edited June 25 by Howard_Jones

[rlaffoon]

9 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

this is great!  do you have a similar chart for dynamic gold?

[Howard_Jones]

16 hours ago, rlaffoon said:

this is great!  do you have a similar chart for dynamic gold?

DG is implicit in the chart (uncut and cut wgt) if this was a weight related question like i replied to.

Find UNCUT wgt. (all DG models)
- one line above becomes HS1
- one line below becomes SS1
- two lines below becomes SS2.

For DG 130 series, you can use this

-


Weight charts in general just follow this link.
If its FLEX....scroll to the top of the same tread.

 

Edited June 26 by Howard_Jones

[rlaffoon]

6 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

DG is implicit in the chart (uncut and cut wgt) if this was a weight related question like i replied to.

Find UNCUT wgt. (all DG models)
- one line above becomes HS1
- one line below becomes SS1
- two lines below becomes SS2.

For DG 130 series, you can use this

-


Weight charts in general just follow this link.
If its FLEX....scroll to the top of the same tread.

 

Thank you!