Putter Shape and its Effects on Aim Bias

[Joe Duffer]

On 11/28/2022 at 1:08 PM, Joe Duffer said:

 

How about if you're looking straight down (90°) and from directly behind (sidesaddle/face-on style) on this putterhead design?

*The shaft is suspended and swung on a vertical (90°) plane

Please forgive me if someone has already asked/discussed this form of putting and how it affects aim.

 

Thanks,

JD

 

 

 

So... nothin'? - I could use a little guidance here...

[SnowmanShanks]

1 hour ago, Joe Duffer said:

So... nothin'? - I could use a little guidance here...

Seems like a difficult idea to predict launch spin and distance.

[Joe Duffer]

On 12/2/2022 at 5:21 PM, SnowmanShanks said:

Seems like a difficult idea to predict launch spin and distance.

Huh... ?? - The discussion is about "Aim Bias"

Edited December 13, 2022 by Joe Duffer

[SnowmanShanks]

Well I just have no idea. I did no testing for this type pf straddle technique.

 

 

 

[nsxguy]

On 11/28/2022 at 9:20 PM, Joe Duffer said:

Not exactly true, my friend. You are allowed to swing ANY club in your bag on ANY plane angle you choose, including a vertical plane (90°), however the maximum allowable lie angle for the club itself is 80° or in other words, 10° OFF vertical. When I putt side-saddle/face-on with the putter swinging on a vertical plane, the putterhead is not perfectly soled on the ground. The putter is suspended using gravity with the putterhead barely touching the ground, if at all. This inclination naturally raises the heel higher above the ground than the toe. I hope I made that understandable...

 

OK, got it. Heel off the ground and shaft vertical.

 

I guess I'm not understanding then, what you mean by "side-saddle/face on". 

 

I'm picturing you standing behind the ball with 1 foot on either side of the putting line extended, i.e. straddling the target line, which I'm sure you know is illegal. 

[Soloman1]

Side saddle putting.

[Joe Duffer]

 

This is "Sidesaddle" / "Face-On" putting. Simply nothing more than an extremely open, long-putter technique.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Joe Duffer

[Honeybadger]

What would be the difference in aim bias of these two putter shapes?

 

[SnowmanShanks]

47 minutes ago, Honeybadger said:

What would be the difference in aim bias of these two putter shapes?

 

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I love this comparison.

Same hosel. Length. Loft. Lie.

 

I'll look into it!

[Honeybadger]

7 hours ago, SnowmanShanks said:

I love this comparison.

Same hosel. Length. Loft. Lie.

 

I'll look into it!

Same everything. What I’m wondering about would be the curved wings vs. the straight. These are Evnroll’s new putters and it looks like they went with  the Scotty Cameron 5 and Odyssey 7 for the same line. Besides aesthetics (the curved looks smaller) I’m interested in what you think the difference would be between curved and straight wings. Evnroll is very deliberate with their designs so they must have a good reason for offering both. 

[Happyday_J]

Bumping an old thread.

 

@SnowmanShanks were you able to see another interesting in the test between those two style highlighted with evnroll putter?

[SnowmanShanks]

2 hours ago, Happyday_J said:

Bumping an old thread.

 

@SnowmanShanks were you able to see another interesting in the test between those two style highlighted with evnroll putter?

New business. New baby. Building another house. Unfortunately golf testing is done for now!

[J13]

On 1/15/2023 at 8:33 AM, Honeybadger said:

Same everything. What I’m wondering about would be the curved wings vs. the straight. These are Evnroll’s new putters and it looks like they went with  the Scotty Cameron 5 and Odyssey 7 for the same line. Besides aesthetics (the curved looks smaller) I’m interested in what you think the difference would be between curved and straight wings. Evnroll is very deliberate with their designs so they must have a good reason for offering both. 

That would be player dependent and don't forget alignment lines play a HUGE role in aim as well as neck.  This is one of the big reasons we construct putters the way we do at Edel.  Especially with the new lineup coming 🙂  

[joshclayg]

Interesting read.

 

I'm still puzzled how I can putt well With a naked newport AOP but have to be hyper vigilant with a classic 1 not to miss hook side, possibly weight difference and colour, but the the performance differences are ridiculous.

[nsxguy]

2 minutes ago, joshclayg said:

Interesting read.

 

I'm still puzzled how I can putt well With a naked newport AOP but have to be hyper vigilant with a classic 1 not to miss hook side, possibly weight difference and colour, but the the performance differences are ridiculous.

 

AOP ?

 

Classic 1 ?

 

 

Edited February 2, 2024 by nsxguy

[SnowmanShanks]

1 hour ago, nsxguy said:

 

AOP ?

 

Classic 1 ?

 

 

Art of putting.

Classic type 1 for SC and anser 1 for all others. 

 

1 hour ago, joshclayg said:

Interesting read.

 

I'm still puzzled how I can putt well With a naked newport AOP but have to be hyper vigilant with a classic 1 not to miss hook side, possibly weight difference and colour, but the the performance differences are ridiculous.

May have something to do with weights or offset or alignment colors or lines. Sry! Too many variables.

 

Unfortunately I have moved out of a blade as I have found closure rates have severely slowed for me personally with mallets. I am using the new 7S ai from odyssey. The grooves seem to be helping enough with the further CoG. 

 

I have made further discovery as for the closure rates. (Obviously) less is better. But no reasonably decent putter rotates the putter more than 6 deg. Not sure what the metric was but we measured 6 frames prior to impact and all the excellent putters were between 3 and 1.5!!!!

[Honeybadger]

On 1/3/2024 at 10:37 AM, J13 said:

That would be player dependent and don't forget alignment lines play a HUGE role in aim as well as neck.  This is one of the big reasons we construct putters the way we do at Edel.  Especially with the new lineup coming 🙂  

The new Edel look really nice!

[J13]

12 hours ago, Honeybadger said:

The new Edel look really nice!

 

Appreciate that.  I love this thread and how it highlights the importance of aim.  Whether trying to make a 10ft putt or shoot a deer from 300yds if you aren't aimed where you think you are, you're in trouble.  The new ARRAY fitting system has 6 alignment options that are magnetic so the fitter can swap them in and out in a matter of seconds. Fun process!

[MattM97]

30 minutes ago, J13 said:

 

Appreciate that.  I love this thread and how it highlights the importance of aim.  Whether trying to make a 10ft putt or shoot a deer from 300yds if you aren't aimed where you think you are, you're in trouble.  The new ARRAY fitting system has 6 alignment options that are magnetic so the fitter can swap them in and out in a matter of seconds. Fun process!

 

Question just on curiosity, what was topline alignments completely omitted from these new putters? Is it just a drawback of the interchangeable system or just not really seen as needed by David? 

[J13]

6 hours ago, MattM97 said:

 

Question just on curiosity, what was topline alignments completely omitted from these new putters? Is it just a drawback of the interchangeable system or just not really seen as needed by David? 

 

A few reasons

 

1. We are constantly testing these sorts of things.  Alignment lines pull your attention to certain parts of the putter.  Aim can change by how long lines are and by the pattern not just whether it's top or bottom. 

 

2.We wanted to keep the top line cleaner looking for ARRAY and not have a plate interfere with the look at address.  It's also why we didn't incorporate a plate in the B series.  Could we have done it? yes, but visually it looked off and distracting.

 

It's a constant battle of form vs function 

[MattM97]

14 minutes ago, J13 said:

 

A few reasons

 

1. We are constantly testing these sorts of things.  Alignment lines pull your attention to certain parts of the putter.  Aim can change by how long lines are and by the pattern not just whether it's top or bottom. 

 

2.We wanted to keep the top line cleaner looking for ARRAY and not have a plate interfere with the look at address.  It's also why we didn't incorporate a plate in the B series.  Could we have done it? yes, but visually it looked off and distracting.

 

It's a constant battle of form vs function 

 

That's fair, cause the topline was part of the last 2 lines for alignment and wanting to have a focus on alignment just figured having all the options was the best way to reach that ultimate goal of building the best putter one can aim. 

[J13]

3 hours ago, MattM97 said:

 

That's fair, cause the topline was part of the last 2 lines for alignment and wanting to have a focus on alignment just figured having all the options was the best way to reach that ultimate goal of building the best putter one can aim. 

 

 

I'm completely with ya. With ARRAY we added the ablity of the player being able to get fit for toe flow aside from just aim and speed so it's a more comprehensive fit than the previous line IMO. ARRAY will also have a little surprise offering. Something Edel has never done. Can't get into it right now but it will be a nice addition.

[GBGolfingtons]

I’m a big left aimer (being right handed)

 

now thinking I should buy a ping Oslo - rounded and large distance from front to back!

[J13]

51 minutes ago, GBGolfingtons said:

I’m a big left aimer (being right handed)

 

now thinking I should buy a ping Oslo - rounded and large distance from front to back!

Why guess?  Get fit with Edels new ARRAY system.  Shape matters with aim but so does hosel and alignment lines.  The whole idea is build and customize it to what you need.

[Meanbeav77]

On 2/13/2024 at 5:09 PM, J13 said:

 

 

I'm completely with ya. With ARRAY we added the ablity of the player being able to get fit for toe flow aside from just aim and speed so it's a more comprehensive fit than the previous line IMO. ARRAY will also have a little surprise offering. Something Edel has never done. Can't get into it right now but it will be a nice addition.

Any timeframe estimate? I want to get fitted for one but if there is something coming out I’d definitely want to wait!? My guess is a shaft

[J13]

15 hours ago, Meanbeav77 said:

Any timeframe estimate? I want to get fitted for one but if there is something coming out I’d definitely want to wait!? My guess is a shaft

 

They just hit the market as of yesterday.  You can go to the website and click Find a Fitter to enter your zipcode.  You can also go the webstie and see what every combination looks like.  

[Ty_Webb]

If I find myself aiming right when I have a SC Newport 2 and aiming fairly straight when I have an odyssey 11 with a solid single line on top, what alignment lines would I want on a LABGolf DF3?

[J295]

How do I test my aim with various putters?

 

I know I’m slight left bias as that’s what I found lining up then placing laser on face (cumbersome), and putter fitting showed 1.8 degree left bias. 
 

is there a reliable device or method?

 

thanks.  

Edited March 21, 2024 by J295

[J295]

At my fitting my static aim was 1.8° left and I returned to the same 1.8° left on average.   With the opening and closing, I understand that I aim bit left and push a bit right (hold off release) to get a successful straight putt.  
 

Recommendation is a blade putter with 45° of toe hang and 72° lie.  
 

Some images follow.  Thoughts?
 

 

 

[J295]

Thought I’d share that I have followed up using my old Newport instead of a mallet and experimented with set up (particularly ball position) to get set up where my view of straight is in fact straight.   Requires me to move ball position back, and accept the fact that this isn’t “standard ball position” — but the fact that my view matches reality and I can make more putts trumps standard set up.   
 

65 years old playing with progressive lenses requires some creativity.