2021 Phoenix Area Course Conditions

[Argonne69]

15 hours ago, Bonneville85308 said:

 

Did you play Wickenburg CC yet? I don't remember you mentioning that one before. Goofy course overall but some fun holes out there.

 

Yes, I played it last year in the afternoon after a morning round at Los Cab. 'Definitely some goofy holes. I'm glad I didn't make the drive out there just to play it. 

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Argonne69

[YMark]

15 hours ago, robcha said:

Was able to snag some Quintero tee times at $160 so hopefully it's in great shape this weekend!

Yikes. I don't see the attraction of that course, especially for that kind of coin. I think $160 is down from their usual February prices.

[Argonne69]

42 minutes ago, YMark said:

Yikes. I don't see the attraction of that course, especially for that kind of coin. I think $160 is down from their usual February prices.

 

[Argonne69]

Gorgeous day out there. First visit to Tuscany Falls West today. I wasn't impressed, but it's better than most of the west valley courses located in housing developments. The back nine had a few interesting green complexes. Not a particularly friendly walking course, as a number of hikes between holes were rather lengthy. Conditions weren't OK. The overseeding didn't take particularly well in several areas, so one was hitting off of very thin grass with a muddy base. Bunkers were good. The rough was a good length. Greens looked great and were rolling 10 to 11. Pace was excellent at 3:25. Once again impressed with the ability of the retirees to get a move on. Lol. 

 

[HarringtonREI]

Grayhawk Talon today. Great shape as always green firm, rolling pretty well and quick-ish. Big tournament today on Raptor so opted for Talon. Was fun driving by and seeing George Gankas cruise by 😂 . Raptor tomorrow.

[cbbaron]

57 minutes ago, HarringtonREI said:

Grayhawk Talon today. Great shape as always green firm, rolling pretty well and quick-ish. Big tournament today on Raptor so opted for Talon. Was fun driving by and seeing George Gankas cruise by 😂 . Raptor tomorrow.

Hoping travel restrictions ease up here in Massachusetts and be there week of Easter my WT card is waiting say hi to Tracy and Jig for me

[Argonne69]

Less than pleasant morning at Papago. Always "fun" to be playing behind four bozos playing from the blue tees who can't hit the ball more than 200 yds. You know the group that spends more time with the cart girl than hitting shots from the fairway? By the 3rd hole they were one hole behind, and never closed the gap. I guess I should be thankful the gap never grew, but waiting on every single shot simply ruins the day. On top of that the greens were slow. I have to assume that the light rain that fell this morning kept the grounds crew off the course, because the greens were rolling 9 at best. I haven't seen greens this slow since November, and it was especially surprising here. 

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Argonne69

[azgolfer44]

2 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

Less than pleasant morning at Papago. Always "fun" to be playing behind four bozos playing from the blue tees who can't hit the ball more than 200 yds. You know the group that spends more time with the cart girl than hitting shots from the fairway? By the 3rd hole they were one hole behind, and never closed the gap. I guess I should be thankful the gap never grew, but waiting on every single shot simply ruins the day. On top of that the greens were slow. I have to assume that the light rain that fell this morning kept the grounds crew off the course, because the greens were rolling 9 at best. I haven't seen greens this slow since November, and it was especially surprising here. 

 

Papago top-dressed the greens last week, so I think they are trying to get some good growth in preparation of the Thunderbird Invitational in March/April.  They were okay last weekend, but not as quick as I have seen.  I doubt the rain kept the crew off the course, since it was very minimal, but you never know.

[HarringtonREI]

Raptor today, fairways impeccable, pace good for how packed they are. Rough not overly long, but definitely thick and sticky. Greens felt a touch slower than talon yesterday, but could have been because of the little bit of rain this AM. Little breezy but overall great shape as always. 

[Argonne69]

Another beautiful day. Unfortunately I wasted it at Coyote Lakes. I played it last winter, and don't recall it being this dumpy. On a positive note it's a challenging layout off the tee, with many narrow holes, and few even lies (including the teeboxes. Ugh). My playing partners were a fun group. Conditions were less than ideal, though. A number of fairways were not cut, and were as shaggy as some courses' rough. Toss in a few bare patches, and it was a real "treat" to be hitting from the "short" grass. The greens looked nice, but were rolling in the 8 to 9 range. Double ugh. Now, if this was a $39 round like Union Hills, I'd say you get what you pay for. However, with taxes and the GolfNow fee is was over $80, which was easily double what was merited. Oh well. The pace was very good at 3:45.

 

[AzSuperHack76]

2 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

Another beautiful day. Unfortunately I wasted it at Coyote Lakes. I played it last winter, and don't recall it being this dumpy. On a positive note it's a challenging layout off the tee, with many narrow holes, and few even lies (including the teeboxes. Ugh). My playing partners were a fun group. Conditions were less than ideal, though. A number of fairways were not cut, and were as shaggy as some courses' rough. Toss in a few bare patches, and it was a real "treat" to be hitting from the "short" grass. The greens looked nice, but were rolling in the 8 to 9 range. Double ugh. Now, if this was a $39 round like Union Hills, I'd say you get what you pay for. However, with taxes and the GolfNow fee is was over $80, which was easily double what was merited. Oh well. The pace was very good at 3:45.

 

$80???? Yikes, what a ripoff. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by AzSuperHack76

[BK Bass]

Got 9 holes in at Papago after work yesterday. A little bit windy out but not too terrible. Greens were almost back to normal speed and they were firm. I hit a very high 7 iron into #3 and it landed middle of green and didn't hold. Had fun and Lou's was hopping for a Thurs night during Covid

[AzSuperHack76]

Sun City Willowcreek yesterday. Good shape all the way around. $42 and a 3.5 hour round teeing off at 10, can’t beat it for the price. 6400 from the back tees, most WRX’s would scoff at such a short course. But it is what it is during the winter to mix in an adorable course. 

[Argonne69]

Dobson Ranch today. Playable conditions, but fairways were thin in spots. A few muddy areas. The dormant rough was thin. 'Definitely no fun hitting off that stuff. Bunkers could use more sand. Greens looked fine, but were only rolling at 9. What's with the slow greens all of a sudden? Pace was solid at 3:50.

 

[Bonneville85308]

1 hour ago, AzSuperHack76 said:

Sun City Willowcreek yesterday. Good shape all the way around. $42 and a 3.5 hour round teeing off at 10, can’t beat it for the price. 6400 from the back tees, most WRX’s would scoff at such a short course. But it is what it is during the winter to mix in an adorable course. 

 

I haven't played there in several years but liked the layout. I think back in summer 2018 they basically re-did the greens completely. The first fall/winter after they didn't overseed them, just painted them, and they were so ridiculously firm and fast that they were pretty much unplayable, so I didn't go back. I assume they are back to normal by now? 

Edited February 5, 2021 by Bonneville85308

[AzSuperHack76]

1 hour ago, Bonneville85308 said:

 

I haven't played there in several years but liked the layout. I think back in summer 2018 they basically re-did the greens completely. The first fall/winter after they didn't overseed them, just painted them, and they were so ridiculously firm and fast that they were pretty much unplayable, so I didn't go back. I assume they are back to normal by now? 

Yup, they are good now. Receptive, and rolling very well. 

[teejaywhy]

On 2/1/2021 at 3:35 PM, Argonne69 said:

I'm running out of regulation length courses to play. I'll check off Tuscany Falls West tomorrow. Links at Queens Creek is on the short list, even though it only plays to 5800 yds. Westbrook Village Vistas and Granite Falls South are on the to-do list, but are closed for public play this winter. 

 

That basically leaved the Casa Grande and Florence areas. Is Poston Butte worth the drive? Francisco Grande, Palm Creek, or Robson Ranch?

 

 

Poston Butte is a Gary Panks design.  If you are familiar with his work, you know what your getting, a solid, if not spectacular golf course.  It is a real estate routing but the corridors are wide and the housing not intrusive.   It does have the unforgivable gimmick island green par 3.   Is it worth the drive? Yeah, probably.

 

Francisco Grande is an interesting story.  Built in the 60's as the San Francisco Giants spring training facility.  The course at one time was the longest in the state.  It is interesting old school parkland design (Ralph Plummer) that unfortunately suffers from perpetual under-maintenance.  I was just reading that the course underwent an $8M renovation in 2004, but it seems the last time I played it was in 2007 and it was as scruffy as ever.  I have no idea about current conditions.   

 

Robson Ranch is a nondescript retirement community course I played once but have no recollection of anything other than the long freight trains that rumbled by every 10 minutes or so.  Only worth the drive if you are ticking off the "every course" list.

 

 

 

[Argonne69]

6 minutes ago, teejaywhy said:

 

Poston Butte is a Gary Panks design.  If you are familiar with his work, you know what your getting, a solid, if not spectacular golf course.  It is a real estate routing but the corridors are wide and the housing not intrusive.   It does have the unforgivable gimmick island green par 3.   Is it worth the drive? Yeah, probably.

 

Francisco Grande is an interesting story.  Built in the 60's as the San Francisco Giants spring training facility.  The course at one time was the longest in the state.  It is interesting old school parkland design (Ralph Plummer) that unfortunately suffers from perpetual under-maintenance.  I was just reading that the course underwent an $8M renovation in 2004, but it seems the last time I played it was in 2007 and it was as scruffy as ever.  I have no idea about current conditions.   

 

Robson Ranch is a nondescript retirement community course I played once but have no recollection of anything other than the long freight trains that rumbled by every 10 minutes or so.  Only worth the drive if you are ticking off the "every course" list.

 

 

Thanks. I'm thinking about playing Poston and Francisco on the same day. It's an 80 minute drive to Poston, so I may as well maximize the golf while I'm down there. 'Problem is it's a 45 minute drive between the two courses. Daylight may be short. Francisco and Robson may be a better pairing for a day trip.

 

[teejaywhy]

4 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Thanks. I'm thinking about playing Poston and Francisco on the same day. It's an 80 minute drive to Poston, so I may as well maximize the golf while I'm down there. 'Problem is it's a 45 minute drive between the two courses. Daylight may be short. Francisco and Robson may be a better pairing for a day trip.

 

 

There is also the Dave White Muni in Casa Grande.  I've never played it so no idea about design merits and I can't imagine the conditioning is great, but it's cheap and closer to Francisco Grande.

 

You also mentioned Palm Creek which I'd never heard of.   Seems to be a pitch & putt course in a trailer park er, manufactured housing community. 😎

 

 

 

[puttnforthe8]

On 2/5/2021 at 1:52 PM, Argonne69 said:

Dobson Ranch today. Playable conditions, but fairways were thin in spots. A few muddy areas. The dormant rough was thin. 'Definitely no fun hitting off that stuff. Bunkers could use more sand. Greens looked fine, but were only rolling at 9. What's with the slow greens all of a sudden? Pace was solid at 3:50.

 

 

Have you played Johnson Ranch (don't recall)?  

[Argonne69]

1 hour ago, puttnforthe8 said:

 

Have you played Johnson Ranch (don't recall)?  

 

Yes, last year. Very memorable because they wouldn't let me walk due to the "pace of play", and I quit four hours into the round after 14 holes because a group two ahead was 3 holes behind. The ranger was a hole ahead of the slow pokes checking his phone instead of keeping tabs on the course. At least they gave me a partial refund for the skipped holes.

[puttnforthe8]

1 hour ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Yes, last year. Very memorable because they wouldn't let me walk due to the "pace of play", and I quit four hours into the round after 14 holes because a group two ahead was 3 holes behind. The ranger was a hole ahead of the slow pokes checking his phone instead of keeping tabs on the course. At least they gave me a partial refund for the skipped holes.

That's right...I recall that story!  😂

 

Not sure if you have any connections or anything - you could try and get on Encanterra.  It is a very good course. That would be well worth it paired with Poston.  

[Bonneville85308]

500 Club this morning. Course is playing firm and fast. $73+tax to walk. Other than a few very minor thin fairway lies mainly on the front nine, everything was in pretty good condition. Pace was 4 hours. Practice green looked kinda shaggy but the on-course greens rolled fine and what I'd call "average" public course speed. The "hole location pegboard" on #11 wasn't indicating the correct spot (indicating front but hole was back), either the staff forgot to set it or some jerk moved it. I love the layout and would play here a lot more, but their tee-time policies are probably the most unfriendly to single players in the entire metro area, so I only play it when I have a group.

 

Only negative on an otherwise very enjoyable round on a beautiful day was two ridiculously impatient old ladies behind us who were right up our rear ends the entire time, hitting into us at least 4-5 times, always standing with that "hurry up" look, despite the fact that we had a wall of foursomes in front of us, we were waiting on almost every shot, and there was nowhere for them to go. The ranger saw one of them roll a ball to the back of the green while we were still walking off it and told them to chill out, to no effect. They would even drive in front of us up to the red tees before we had even walked past the reds after teeing off from the whites. Ugh.🤬

[Argonne69]

Same 'ol conditions at Cave Creek this morning. The course is in very nice shape. The greens were rolling 10 to 11. I had a few tricky downhill putts that I barely got rolling at they stopped 6+ feet past the hole. It's a shame the rough/dirt is so nasty in so many places. Pace was slow for a Monday morning. We've been having less than 4 hour rounds, but it was 4:20 today.

 

[AzSuperHack76]

Hillcrest, just a poop show.  Most of the fairways grass was longer than some courses rough, and that's not an exaggeration. Some had been mown, most weren't. One was half mown and it looks like the guy just quit, stopped at the dogleg on the par 5 #7. 

 

And now the complete opposite of shaggy fairways. The greens were super fast, like lighting fast, if you were above the hole you were done. I hit the middle of the green on #13 , normally there would be zero issue staying there, due to the speed and slope it rolled all the way off. That green is close to  50 yards in length. I watched the group in front of me just pick up the ball multiple times on the greens, same can be said for our group, it was nuts. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by AzSuperHack76

[Argonne69]

First visit to the Links at Queen Creek this morning. If you want green, this is the place. It reminded me of Arizona Biltmore Adobe in that it's a sea of grass with a few desert areas. The rye rough was thick and wet. They obviously water the heck out of the place. There's not a blade of dormant Bermuda on the course, as they're closed during the summer. Seems they seed the rye in September for winter play only. While the course is short (5800 yds), it's fairly tight on a number of short par 4s. I had difficulty all day finding fairways trying to overpower the course. 

 

Conditions were good. Fairways were lush, but there were a few bare patches. Greens were nice, and rolling 9 to 10. As noted, the rough was thick, but not overly long. 

 

Pace was wanting. We made the turn in two hours, but then it ground to a halt. On the 10th hole I could see that the 18th was wide open, so someone was gumming up the works. Finished in 4:20. 

 

Glad to check off another area course, but this one can be easily skipped unless one needs to work on their wedges or driving iron. 

 

I did getting a chuckle out of the first hole. A dogleg right with the OB wall on the right corner. I asked one of my playing partners if it was the Road Hole.

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Argonne69

[Argonne69]

I booked as a single in an open four slot next Tuesday morning at 8:20 am at Sterling Grove. Anyone open to play? I called the pro shop, and they do allow walking. $89 should be a bargain. 

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Argonne69

[Bob Cat]

On 1/16/2021 at 5:52 PM, puttnforthe8 said:

Verrado Victory today.  The nice cloud cover and warm overnight temp made it for no frost delay!! 

 

The course was in fantastic shape.  There were a few spots where there was a lot of water/wet which caused some muddiness, but not significant.

 

The greens were outstanding, running about 11.5.  They have rerouted a lot of cart paths as homes are going up like mold on month old cheese.

Played it the day after you.  Was my first trip to AZ.  Verrado was my favorite.

Also played Southern Dunes, Las Sendas, Legacy, Oakwood, Wildfire, and Wigwam as a filler the morning of our departure.  Weather was fantastic but Wigwam was a little chilly before the sun finally came out.

Hope this was the first of many trips out there in the future.

[Argonne69]

15 minutes ago, Bob Cat said:

Played it the day after you.  Was my first trip to AZ.  Verrado was my favorite.

Also played Southern Dunes, Las Sendas, Legacy, Oakwood, Wildfire, and Wigwam as a filler the morning of our departure.  Weather was fantastic but Wigwam was a little chilly before the sun finally came out.

Hope this was the first of many trips out there in the future.

 

A little surprising that Southern Dunes didn't win top honors, but not shocked. Victory has some great views of the White Tank Mountains, and the views on the front nine are really special. The back nine suffers from the Housing Development complex.

 

Southern Dunes is special because there are no homes to spoil the views, but it's not your typical desert layout. Glad you had a good time. 

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Argonne69

[Aaf09001]

35 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

A little surprising that Southern Dunes didn't win top honors, but not shocked. Victory has some great views of the White Tank Mountains, and the views on the front nine are really special. The back nine suffers from the Housing Development complex.

 

Southern Dunes is special because there are no homes to spoil the views, but it's not your typical desert layout. Glad you had a good time. 

 

Argo, coming to Scottsdale in April for my bachelor party. So far we have Quintero and Southern Dunes booked. How would you rank the two Verrado courses and Estrella? From what I have read it seems like Founders, Estrella, Victory in that order? Is there a wrong choice in the group? Hoping to get all 3 of these in but might only get 2 of the 3.