2021 Phoenix Area Course Conditions

[Argonne69]

Fun morning at Sterling Grove. Can't beat the 3:20 pace. My kind of golf. As noted previously, this ain't your typical Phoenix area course. First, there's the actual rough. Nice stuff. They were in the process of cutting it, so it was a very good height on some holes, and quite thick on others. Then there's the tall grass. It's very likely not fescue, but whatever it's called it eats golf balls. Stay away from the stuff. 

 

I'm a big Jack fan, and the greens don't disappoint. Wouldn't want to play on them every day, but one has to occasionally step up to the challenge. 

 

The short par 4s were excellent. No pushovers in the bunch. The par 3s were very good. I did find many of the other par 4s lacking. While they did a nice job sculpting many of the holes, a few are simply boring. The bunkerless par 5 4th needs some sand to break up the endless sea of green. Didn't care for the par 4 8th with the hidden hazard that squeezes the fairway to just a few yards wide. The hole is long, and it takes away the driver for most players. 

 

Conditions were very good. The fairways were lush, other than in a handful of bare patches. Sand was excellent. Greens looked fine for the most part, but as others have noted there were a few rough patches. They were firm, but I found them rather receptive for a new course. Green speed was 10 to 11, but it felt like a few were rolling slower than the majority. 

 

Definitely didn't care for the lack of yardages on the sprinkler heads. The new course wasn't available yet on my SkyCaddie, and without a laser I was pretty much playing blind. I have to pat myself on the back for doing such a good job eyeballing distances. Yes, the carts have GPS, but if one is playing ready golf there are times one will need to calculate yardages the old fashioned way. 

 

Overall I enjoyed the course, but I don't think it's going to jump into the top 10 in the valley. I'd rather play the Verrado courses. Visually they're a few notches above. 

 

 

Full photo set: Sterling Grove

 

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Argonne69

[AzSuperHack76]

1 hour ago, Argonne69 said:

Fun morning at Sterling Grove. Can't beat the 3:20 pace. My kind of golf. As noted previously, this ain't your typical Phoenix area course. First, there's the actual rough. Nice stuff. They were in the process of cutting it, so it was a very good height on some holes, and quite thick on others. Then there's the tall grass. It's very likely not fescue, but whatever it's called it eats golf balls. Stay away from the stuff. 

 

I'm a big Jack fan, and the greens don't disappoint. Wouldn't want to play on them every day, but one has to occasionally step up to the challenge. 

 

The short par 4s were excellent. No pushovers in the bunch. The par 3s were very good. I did find many of the other par 4s lacking. While they did a nice job sculpting many of the holes, a few are simply boring. The bunkerless par 5 4th needs some sand to break up the endless sea of green. Didn't care for the par 4 8th with the hidden hazard that squeezes the fairway to just a few yards wide. The hole is long, and it takes away the driver for most players. 

 

Conditions were very good. The fairways were lush, other than in a handful of bare patches. Sand was excellent. Greens looked fine for the most part, but as others have noted there were a few rough patches. They were firm, but I found them rather receptive for a new course. Green speed was 10 to 11, but it felt like a few were rolling slower than the majority. 

 

Definitely didn't care for the lack of yardages on the sprinkler heads. The new course wasn't available yet on my SkyCaddie, and without a laser I was pretty much playing blind. I have to pat myself on the back for doing such a good job eyeballing distances. Yes, the carts have GPS, but if one is playing ready golf there are times one will need to calculate yardages the old fashioned way. 

 

Overall I enjoyed the course, but I don't think it's going to jump into the top 10 in the valley. I'd rather play the Verrado courses. Visually they're a few notches above. 

 

 

Full photo set: Sterling Grove

 

 

Glad you made it out there and awesome pictures. I’d be down for another round there in the next weeks if you want to pair up. 
 

Just curious as to where the pin was on 7 today? It was on the tiny front section for us on Sunday. Just cruel....

[Argonne69]

20 minutes ago, AzSuperHack76 said:

Glad you made it out there and awesome pictures. I’d be down for another round there in the next weeks if you want to pair up. 
 

Just curious as to where the pin was on 7 today? It was on the tiny front section for us on Sunday. Just cruel....

 

The pin was back left on a small shelf behind the enormous depression. I landed the ball short right of the green, and it rolled past the flag to the back fringe.

 

A number of holes had small flat areas with dropoffs on several sides. Typical Jack stuff. the par 3 3rd was unique with the "volcano" pin position in the center of the green. I've played over 650 courses, and I don't recall ever seeing a flat spot in the middle of the green with a dropoff on all sides. Lol. 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Argonne69

[Argonne69]

Mostly pleasant morning at Cave Creek. I teed off earlier than I normally do, so it was a little brisk out there, but it warmed nicely. The course was a bit wet. I assume they ran the sprinklers to get some of the frost off. Otherwise conditions were decent. Greens were rolling 10 to start, and possibly 11 by the time they dried out. Pace was decent at 3:20, but it should have been quicker. Our group had a no-show, so we went off as a twosome behind a foursome. No surprise we waited on every shot. They never turned around and acknowledged us, so we waited. We finally were allowed to play through at the turn after one of them stopped for a quick break. At that point they were at least two holes behind the group ahead of them. I will simply never understand why a foursome would want a twosome on their tail when there are open holes ahead. If I'm in that foursome the two behind me would have been waved through no later than the 7th hole. 

 

[Argonne69]

GC of Estrella today. I played the course five years ago, and I thought I remember it being a little more interesting. The 9th, 16th, 17th, and 18th are fun, but otherwise it's rather bland. Conditions of the fairways and greens were fine. Fairways were lush, and the greens were rolling 10. I thought the bunkers were garbage. I have more dust on my bookshelves than some of those bunkers. The pace on the front was excellent, as we made the turn in 1:50. Unfortunately we ran into two groups (huh?), and it ground to a halt. We waited on every shot after that, and limped home in 4:15. Curious if the ranger was taking an extended afternoon break.

 

[puttnforthe8]

3 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

GC of Estrella today. I played the course five years ago, and I thought I remember it being a little more interesting. The 9th, 16th, 17th, and 18th are fun, but otherwise it's rather bland. Conditions of the fairways and greens were fine. Fairways were lush, and the greens were rolling 10. I thought the bunkers were garbage. I have more dust on my bookshelves than some of those bunkers. The pace on the front was excellent, as we made the turn in 1:50. Unfortunately we ran into two groups (huh?), and it ground to a halt. We waited on every shot after that, and limped home in 4:15. Curious if the ranger was taking an extended afternoon break.

 

Wow - that is a different take.  I personally think Estrella has one of the best collection of Par 3s in the basin.  And there are some good par 4s throughout.  

 

But agree...the worst bunkers around.  The rains they had caused serious erosion damage and wash-away and they have not bothered to fix them.

[Argonne69]

10 hours ago, puttnforthe8 said:

Wow - that is a different take.  I personally think Estrella has one of the best collection of Par 3s in the basin.  And there are some good par 4s throughout.  

 

But agree...the worst bunkers around.  The rains they had caused serious erosion damage and wash-away and they have not bothered to fix them.

 

The par 3 17th is pretty awesome. I stuck a 5h 12 feet over the front pin. The 7th isn't too bad I guess. Tough bunkering. The 3rd and 14th are bland. 

[Argonne69]

Pleasant morning at Union Hills. There was a 15 minute frost delay, which was a bit odd, but it didn't impact us much. The course seems to be in slightly better shape that in previous weeks. It's still sketchy in spots, but the bare spots in the fairways are starting to heal, and the greens are looking better. 'Still not going to win any awards. Greens were rolling 10. Pace was excellent. Our group was the third out, and we finished in 3:20. 'Nice to have the first groups out set a nice pace.

 

[Bob Cat]

Additional well wishes and positive karma to those first groups, Argonne.  Love it.

[Bonneville85308]

edited

Edited February 20, 2021 by Bonneville85308

[azgolfer44]

Aguila Saturday followed by Falcon Dunes today.

 

Aguila was quite nice. Greens are still rolling quick and true. Had a nice set of pins for JGAA event later that day. It seems like maybe a little less roll on the fairways but not sure the reason.  Good turnout for the men’s club. Just over 4 hours to play. 

 

Falcon Dunes was above average condition. Greens were slower than what I expected, maybe 9ish. Bunkers needed some work with lots of rocks. Everything else was solid. I do enjoy the layout with a lot of fun “half-par” holes. Took 4:20 but waited on every shot after hole 5. 

[FlashNoonan]

Sterling Grove yesterday. Echo's the same as previous reviews of it. I love the greens but I'm sure not everyone is a fan of them. Flat, straight putts are boring! Playing big breaks, double breakers are real fun for me. Sand was excellent, hopefully that will last even though they don't have rakes out there. They didn't seem to have any tricked up pin placements yesterday. I'm not a fan of that thick tall grass though. Hit a nice drive and one hop and it's gone. No way you'll find it. Hole 5 would have been nice to know that that tall thick grass cut across the fairway. I guess that's what their "double fairway" means on the GPS readout. The GPS on the cart seemed to be accurate on distances except on 15. I felt the GPS was off by 20 yards compared to my range finder. I listened to the cart GPS and left my shot woefully short. 

 

I'm still baffled about my approach into 18 though. My buddy and I saw it land in the bunker but then couldn't find it. Wasn't in the water, wasn't in the sand and wasn't around the green. 

[Argonne69]

1 hour ago, FlashNoonan said:

Sterling Grove yesterday. Echo's the same as previous reviews of it. I love the greens but I'm sure not everyone is a fan of them. Flat, straight putts are boring! Playing big breaks, double breakers are real fun for me. Sand was excellent, hopefully that will last even though they don't have rakes out there. They didn't seem to have any tricked up pin placements yesterday. I'm not a fan of that thick tall grass though. Hit a nice drive and one hop and it's gone. No way you'll find it. Hole 5 would have been nice to know that that tall thick grass cut across the fairway. I guess that's what their "double fairway" means on the GPS readout. The GPS on the cart seemed to be accurate on distances except on 15. I felt the GPS was off by 20 yards compared to my range finder. I listened to the cart GPS and left my shot woefully short. 

 

I'm still baffled about my approach into 18 though. My buddy and I saw it land in the bunker but then couldn't find it. Wasn't in the water, wasn't in the sand and wasn't around the green. 

 

I pulled my approach on the 18th left of the cart path, and couldn't find my ball. I saw it bounce. 'Turns out one of the players practicing chipping didn't notice the ball near his bucket, and chipped it on to the chipping green. Lol.

 

[Argonne69]

Mostly pleasant morning at Cave Creek. I don't believe there was a frost delay, but they had the sprinklers going, and a maintenance worker out hand watering a few of the greens. Fairways were lush, but very wet in spots. Greens looked nice, and were rolling 9 to 10 early on, and 10 to 11 later in the round. Pace was maddingly slow for a Monday morning. We waited on most shots, and we figured out the issue on the 13th teebox. The group two ahead was at least two holes behind. They were on the 14th green, and the 15th and 16th were wide open. Again, just don't understand why people book an early morning round, and then fail to keep pace with the group ahead. It seems they were playing anything but ready golf. 'Looked over to watch them on the 15th and they were sitting in their carts while one player prepared to hit their ball. Oy.

 

A bit of a minor celebration for me today. I played my 200th round in the area. My first round was at Lookout Mountain in May 2005. (Yeah, I know). From '07 to '19 I visited once or twice a year, and played two to five rounds each trip. Of course spending the last two winters here really helped the round count. I'm driving down to Francisco Grande tomorrow to play my 132nd area course.

 

[Jmmitch13]

Hey guys looking for a recommendation as I’ve never been to the area.. I’ll be in Gilbert Thursday Feb 25th playing as a single. Would prefer to play 36.. looked in to talking stick. Also checking Golfnow, let me know! 

[AzSuperHack76]

500 Club today. Overall in decent shape. Fairways and tee boxes are great, greens are a bit thin but rolling well. Bunkers and rough are a bit of a mess. No rakes in bunkers, and rough is just super compact dormant bermuda, extremely thin lies. Teed off at 1100 and finished in exactly 4 hours. 

 

Not a blade of grass to be found on the range though, worst I've seen it. 

 

There seems to be no Covid precautions being taken by any of the staff inside. If you are concerned about it make sure you mask up. 

[azgolfer44]

1 hour ago, Jmmitch13 said:

Hey guys looking for a recommendation as I’ve never been to the area.. I’ll be in Gilbert Thursday Feb 25th playing as a single. Would prefer to play 36.. looked in to talking stick. Also checking Golfnow, let me know! 

Just read this thread and others on sw forum. You can get some decent deals on golf now, but I am not a fan. Customer service is typically awful. 

[BirdieRoll]

GCU this afternoon. Left after it took three hours to play ten holes. You know you’re screwed when you’re one of three groups on the par 3 second.

 

(I didn’t make the tee time but was worried it was gonna be bad.)

 

Maddening.

[MackDaddy480]

20 minutes ago, BirdieRoll said:

GCU this afternoon. Left after it took three hours to play ten holes. You know you’re screwed when you’re one of three groups on the par 3 second.

 

(I didn’t make the tee time but was worried it was gonna be bad.)

 

Maddening.

Must have been stuck behind slow group(s). I played Saturday teeing off at 10:30 AM in 4:20. 

[puttnforthe8]

4 hours ago, Jmmitch13 said:

Hey guys looking for a recommendation as I’ve never been to the area.. I’ll be in Gilbert Thursday Feb 25th playing as a single. Would prefer to play 36.. looked in to talking stick. Also checking Golfnow, let me know! 

 

Whirlwind is a better option than Talking Stick;  Or Southern Dunes twice - it is in virtually perfect shape tee to green.  But 36 using Golfnow is generally pretty tough. Best to call the course and book there 36 hole deal.

 

https://www.akchinsoutherndunes.com/specials/

 

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by puttnforthe8

[Bonneville85308]

10 hours ago, MackDaddy480 said:

Must have been stuck behind slow group(s). I played Saturday teeing off at 10:30 AM in 4:20. 

 

That's still slow. lol. 

 

But then again, during winter I generally refuse to play any course after the first hour or so of tee times of the day.

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by Bonneville85308

[AzSuperHack76]

12 hours ago, BirdieRoll said:

GCU this afternoon. Left after it took three hours to play ten holes. You know you’re screwed when you’re one of three groups on the par 3 second.

 

(I didn’t make the tee time but was worried it was gonna be bad.)

 

Maddening.

How can it be backed up that much to start a round??? 

[jayrod79]

18 hours ago, Jmmitch13 said:

Hey guys looking for a recommendation as I’ve never been to the area.. I’ll be in Gilbert Thursday Feb 25th playing as a single. Would prefer to play 36.. looked in to talking stick. Also checking Golfnow, let me know! 

I’m in Gilbert as well and echo the other recommendation to look into Whirlwind or Southern Dunes. 

[YMark]

19 hours ago, AzSuperHack76 said:

500 Club today. Overall in decent shape. Fairways and tee boxes are great, greens are a bit thin but rolling well. Bunkers and rough are a bit of a mess. No rakes in bunkers, and rough is just super compact dormant bermuda, extremely thin lies. Teed off at 1100 and finished in exactly 4 hours. 

 

Not a blade of grass to be found on the range though, worst I've seen it. 

 

There seems to be no Covid precautions being taken by any of the staff inside. If you are concerned about it make sure you mask up. 

 

500 Club is a decent track but it seems to be going to the dogs. Year after year it gets worse.

[Argonne69]

Long drive pre-dawn to Francisco Grande for my first visit. Ugh, should have slept in. Lol. The front nine was moderately interesting. The back was bland. I did like the mature trees. Overall it was a very forgettable course. Conditions were sketchy. Tee to green was poor. Fairways had numerous bare patches, and thin lies. Bunkers were actually quite good. Greens were also very good, and running at 10. No issue with the pace. I teed off as a single, played through a couple of groups, and had clear sailing. 

 

Glad to have checked off another area course, but I can't recommend the drive out there. It wasn't expensive, but it's well worth spending a little extra and saving a few minutes by playing Southern Dunes. 

 

[puttnforthe8]

2 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

Long drive pre-dawn to Francisco Grande for my first visit. Ugh, should have slept in. Lol. The front nine was moderately interesting. The back was bland. I did like the mature trees. Overall it was a very forgettable course. Conditions were sketchy. Tee to green was poor. Fairways had numerous bare patches, and thin lies. Bunkers were actually quite good. Greens were also very good, and running at 10. No issue with the pace. I teed off as a single, played through a couple of groups, and had clear sailing. 

 

Glad to have checked off another area course, but I can't recommend the drive out there. It wasn't expensive, but it's well worth spending a little extra and saving a few minutes by playing Southern Dunes. 

 

You WERE warned! LOL.  The trip to Prescott would have been 1000% better....essentially the same distance and time for you.

[vallygolf]

18 hours ago, puttnforthe8 said:

 

Whirlwind is a better option than Talking Stick;  Or Southern Dunes twice - it is in virtually perfect shape tee to green.  But 36 using Golfnow is generally pretty tough. Best to call the course and book there 36 hole deal.

 

https://www.akchinsoutherndunes.com/specials/

 

 

Also in Gilbert... Also recommend this if time is of any consideration.  Personally I would do 36 at southern dunes, but Whirlwind has two solid tracks.

[BirdieRoll]

Enjoyable round with a 3:40 pace yesterday at Legacy. Conditions overall were quite good. Friendly service.

 

A couple of bunkers need a sand refill asap. I thought the speed of the greens was perfect: quick but not overwhelming and the correct speed given the green contours.

[Argonne69]

Beautiful morning. Second visit to The Legacy. Definitely like the layout, especially the mounding, but I'm not sure how it makes #19 on Golfweek's Best in State list. It does need one of the short par 3s lengthened. Don't need two playing at gap wedge distance. 

 

Agree with @BirdieRoll, the course is in great shape, minus a few bunkers that need an inch of sand. A few thin spots in the fairways, but overall very lush. Greens were wonderful. I'd say they were rolling 11. Pace was fabulous. Teeing off at 8:04, my foursome finished in 3:20. Only downside is that I'm really starting to get used to these quick rounds. Four hours feels glacial. Lol. First world problems. 

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Argonne69

[puttnforthe8]

11 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

Beautiful morning. Second visit to The Legacy. Definitely like the layout, especially the mounding, but I'm not sure how it makes #19 on Golfweek's Best in State list. It does need one of the short par 3s lengthened. Don't need two playing at gap wedge distance. 

 

Agree with @BirdieRoll, the course is in great shape, minus a few bunkers that need an inch of sand. A few thin spots in the fairways, but overall very lush. Greens were wonderful. I'd say they were rolling 11. Pace was fabulous. Teeing off at 8:04, my foursome finished in 3:20. Only downside is that I'm really starting to get used to these quick rounds. Four hours feels glacial. Lol. First world problems. 

 

Are you playing the white tees?  Tips and Blacks are not GW - or your GW is wayyy different than mine. 🤣

Edited February 24, 2021 by puttnforthe8