2021 Phoenix Area Course Conditions

[Bob Cat]

Itinerary's set for upcoming AZ trip and I'd like your applicable, helpful comments on each (food, drink, waitress to avoid, etc).

Some of these may be headscratchers but we have good reason for playing each of these for various reasons.

Again, any local tips on good eats near each one or other good intel would be great.  Thanks in advance.

 

Orange Tree

Desert Canyon

Sundance

Trilogy @ Vistancia

Verrado

Whirlwind (Cattail)

Rancho Mañana

Ironwood

 

 

[chisag]

2 minutes ago, Bob Cat said:

Verrado

 

 

... I am sure others will chime in on the other courses but nothing near Verrado with the exception of the restaurant at the Founders Course which is very good. Victory restaurant ain't too bad either. 

... Didn't eat at the Whirlwind restaurant but not too far away on the way back to Phoenix and just a little ways off i10 is one of my favorites:

https://picazzos.com

[YMark]

On 1/10/2022 at 4:26 PM, Bob Cat said:

Orange Tree

Desert Canyon

Rancho Mañana

 

 

 

 

Orange Tree <== restaurant is decent

Desert Canyon <== I'd love to hear the "good reason" for playing this place

Rancho Mañana <== restaurant is excellent (sit on the patio) and has some of the best hotdogs at the food shack at the turn

[Bonneville85308]

10 minutes ago, YMark said:

 

Orange Tree <== restaurant is decent

 

 

When I played there in November with 3 friends visiting from out of town who were staying at the resort, we had lunch on the patio afterwards. They had the gal running the coffee bar thing also serving as the waitress for the patio and the service ended up being beyond terrible, there was no way she could keep up with doing the barista thing plus waiting tables for 6+ foursomes even if she had some motivation, which she didn't. What should have taken less than an hour from the time we sat down to the time we left took almost 2 hours, the food was really underwhelming for the money, and none of the requests like "hold the mayo" or "chips instead of fries" made it to the food. My hard-drinking friend who probably would have had 5 beers since he didn't have to drive only was able to get 1 due to the poor service. Maybe the experience inside the building is different, I don't know, but it was the worst restaurant experience I've had in quite a while. Nice patio though. We played there again the next day and had lunch off-property instead.

[YMark]

5 minutes ago, Bonneville85308 said:

 

When I played there in November with 3 friends visiting from out of town who were staying at the resort, we had lunch on the patio afterwards. They had the gal running the coffee bar thing also serving as the waitress for the patio and the service ended up being beyond terrible, there was no way she could keep up with doing the barista thing plus waiting tables for 6+ foursomes even if she had some motivation, which she didn't. What should have taken less than an hour from the time we sat down to the time we left took almost 2 hours, the food was really underwhelming for the money, and none of the requests like "hold the mayo" or "chips instead of fries" made it to the food. My hard-drinking friend who probably would have had 5 beers since he didn't have to drive only was able to get 1 due to the poor service. Maybe the experience inside the building is different, I don't know, but it was the worst restaurant experience I've had in quite a while. Nice patio though. We played there again the next day and had lunch off-property instead.

I haven't been there since before Covid, that might be the reason for the poor service. But still, might be a better plan to head someplace off-site like you say. Poor service is never fun.

[puttnforthe8]

On 1/10/2022 at 4:26 PM, Bob Cat said:

Itinerary's set for upcoming AZ trip and I'd like your applicable, helpful comments on each (food, drink, waitress to avoid, etc).

Some of these may be headscratchers but we have good reason for playing each of these for various reasons.

Again, any local tips on good eats near each one or other good intel would be great.  Thanks in advance.

 

Orange Tree

Desert Canyon

Sundance

Trilogy @ Vistancia

Verrado

Whirlwind (Cattail)

Rancho Mañana

Ironwood

 

 

 

 

1. Rancho Manana is one of the worst courses in all of the southwest.
2. Ironwood is a short course - not sure why you would come to AZ to play this with so many better courses.  Heck, Oakwood next door is better.
3. Vistancia restaurant is great. nothing else for miles.
4. When at Verrado make the short trip to Transplant City Brewing and get some beer and food on their patio - if you drink beer.
5. Desert Canyon is worse then Rancho Manana.  But if you must play, Hills Pizza is excellent.
6. Whirlwind has excellent food.  
7. Orange Tree is Scottsdale - so I would just go to Roka Akor if you like sushi, seafood and other; Citizen Public House (highest rec) for great everything; Mastros if you need fancy steak; Modern Oyster for good all around food and drink; Buck & Rider for great oysters and other seafood with great cocktails - one of the best happy hours in AZ; 
8. Sundance - 8 bit brewing - again if you like beer; not fancy, just cool beer.
9. If you have to play Ironwood - go to Blue 32 for great Sports Bar food and drink; 

 

 

 

[YMark]

21 hours ago, puttnforthe8 said:

 

 

1. Rancho Manana is one of the worst courses in all of the southwest.
2. Desert Canyon is worse then Rancho Manana.  But if you must play, Hills Pizza is excellent.

 

 

 

 

I was going to say the same, but was in a nice mood. 

[Bob Cat]

Desert Canyon yesterday.

We enjoyed it so I’m not sure why the neg comments.

Staff was friendly.  Food was ok.  Patio was nice.

Sundance later today and will try to hit 8 Bit Brewing.

[puttnforthe8]

2 hours ago, Bob Cat said:

Desert Canyon yesterday.

We enjoyed it so I’m not sure why the neg comments.

Staff was friendly.  Food was ok.  Patio was nice.

Sundance later today and will try to hit 8 Bit Brewing.

 

Good to hear; glad you enjoyed.  DC can be in poor shape, long rounds and it's not the best course as it is - leaving for a bad experience; especially for the price charged.

 

Note - you can also do Saddle Mountain Brewing too - they have decent food and beer.

Edited January 14, 2022 by puttnforthe8

[chisag]

... OK, I have a question unrelated to golf. I wanted to wait for the arrival of my Mach E before getting a AZ license and plates. Canceled my order and am now waiting on a Genesis GV60 but no sales date on the horizon. Info is pretty confusing but if I register my current G80 and get a license plate am I correct in thinking this is something like a $400-500 fee? And then progressively drops every year but still crazy expensive? It was about $150 a year in Illinois. 

... I have been putting all this off but feel like I am on borrowed time as my Illinois registration ran out in June.  

Thanks Guys! 

[Bonneville85308]

31 minutes ago, chisag said:

... OK, I have a question unrelated to golf. I wanted to wait for the arrival of my Mach E before getting a AZ license and plates. Canceled my order and am now waiting on a Genesis GV60 but no sales date on the horizon. Info is pretty confusing but if I register my current G80 and get a license plate am I correct in thinking this is something like a $400-500 fee? And then progressively drops every year but still crazy expensive? It was about $150 a year in Illinois. 

... I have been putting all this off but feel like I am on borrowed time as my Illinois registration ran out in June.  

Thanks Guys! 

 

Yes, that is kinda how it works. It's called "VLT".  A brand new $50,000 2022 model year vehicle being registered right now would cost you about $840 for the first year, and it goes down every year from there. A 2018 model year vehicle that was $50,000 new, being registered in AZ for 2022 would cost half that, like around $420 or so.

 

Here is a link that gives you an approximate annual registration cost based on the year and original base MSRP (trim level, but no options, I think) of the vehicle. It is less invasive than ADOT's online calculator which asks for street address and city.

https://arizonavltcalc.com/

 

There is also was some other annual car registration fee that they hit everybody for, it's like $32 or something regardless of the car. Supposedly it was being phased out after 2021 but I don't know if that is actually happening.

Edited January 14, 2022 by Bonneville85308

[chisag]

9 minutes ago, Bonneville85308 said:

 

Yes, that is kinda how it works. It's called "VLT".  A brand new $50,000 2022 model year vehicle being registered right now would cost you about $840 for the first year, and it goes down every year from there. A 2018 model year vehicle that was $50,000 new, being registered in AZ for 2022 would cost half that, like around $420 or so.

 

Here is a link that gives you an approximate annual registration cost based on the year and original base MSRP (trim level, but no options, I think) of the vehicle. It is less invasive than ADOT's online calculator which asks for street address and city.

https://arizonavltcalc.com/

 

There is also was some other annual car registration fee that they hit everybody for, it's like $32 or something regardless of the car. Supposedly it was being phased out after 2021 but I don't know if that is actually happening.

 

 

... Great Info, thank you! 

[cbbaron]

2 hours ago, chisag said:

... OK, I have a question unrelated to golf. I wanted to wait for the arrival of my Mach E before getting a AZ license and plates. Canceled my order and am now waiting on a Genesis GV60 but no sales date on the horizon. Info is pretty confusing but if I register my current G80 and get a license plate am I correct in thinking this is something like a $400-500 fee? And then progressively drops every year but still crazy expensive? It was about $150 a year in Illinois. 

... I have been putting all this off but feel like I am on borrowed time as my Illinois registration ran out in June.  

Thanks Guys! 

I sell Ford in Boston for 33 years. What did you order anything with Ext Battery is like a year out

[chisag]

2 minutes ago, cbbaron said:

I sell Ford in Boston for 33 years. What did you order anything with Ext Battery is like a year out

 

... I hear ya. I ordered the Mach E last March and by the end of October they still had not started building it. Turned out to be a good thing because I like the Genesis GV60 much better.  I hope Ford (and you) does well with the Mach E. 👍

[cbbaron]

1 minute ago, chisag said:

 

... I hear ya. I ordered the Mach E last March and by the end of October they still had not started building it. Turned out to be a good thing because I like the Genesis GV60 much better.  I hope Ford (and you) does well with the Mach E. 👍

Mach Es are huge here alot high tech people in area

[Bob Cat]

Sundance was rough but the price was right.

Trilogy @ Vistancia tomorrow.

Looking forward to it.

It’s been a great week of great friends, golf n reposado.

[Bob Cat]

Trilogy @ Vistancia today.

Overseed was good as were the greens.  Good staff.

Over abundance of waterfowl on 18 are a mess.

Pizza from their brick oven was exceptional.

Nice variety of beers available too.

Would come back.

[Bob Cat]

Verrado yesterday.

Always good conditions, food and staff… other than the same waitress this year that seems to be miserable.

Best terrain views so far.

Cattail @ Whirlwind today.

[vallygolf]

Bear Creek in Chandler yesterday.  It has been a few years since I played out there and I was pleasantly surprised.  Fairways were firm and uniform.  Greens were firm and quite smooth and running 9 or 10.  Typical muni "rough around the edges", but pace of play was good and I paid under$80 for a prime tee time.  For what it is, if you are looking for a last minute "just want to play" round. It might tick the box.

[chisag]

1 hour ago, Bob Cat said:

Verrado yesterday.

Always good conditions

 

... I had always found that true in the past, but playing it a few weeks ago the greens were slow and covered in ball marks making them pretty bumpy. Not for you guys? If fixed, that would be good news because it is one of my favorites.  

[Bob Cat]

@chisag Greens were in great shape and rolling well.

[Bob Cat]

Cattail at Whirlwind today.

Best value all week for us.

Food was very good.

We’ll consider this course on future trips.

Rancho Magnana tomorrow.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Bob Cat

[AzSuperHack76]

10 hours ago, Bob Cat said:

Cattail at Whirlwind today.

Best value all week for us.

Food was very good.

We’ll consider this course on future trips.

Rancho Magnana tomorrow.

Woof, Rancho is awful, sorry. 

[fore_life]

Wait is this THE Bob Cat from sldr-c fame?

[vandyfan]

Apologies in advance for what might be a well-worn topic!

 

I know this topic has likely been beaten to death throughout the forums (the search function was a mess for this) but we are headed out to Phoenix/Scottsdale in March and will be coming from Middle TN (approx. 400-550 ft above sea level). The courses that we are playing are around 1200-1400 ft above sea level so, at most, 1000 ft increase. Several guys in my group are talking about how they think they will be "a club longer in AZ" which seems exaggerated to me (I am happy to let them think that!). Anyone have anecdotal thoughts? I would guess like 2-3% farther at most, no? Also will fairways still be slowish from overseed by March or firmer/faster by then? Or depends on the course (we are playing Talking Stick O'Odam, Raven, We-Ko-Pa Saguaro and Cholla). 

 

 

[vallygolf]

1 hour ago, blackbdmillsaps said:

Apologies in advance for what might be a well-worn topic!

 

I know this topic has likely been beaten to death throughout the forums (the search function was a mess for this) but we are headed out to Phoenix/Scottsdale in March and will be coming from Middle TN (approx. 400-550 ft above sea level). The courses that we are playing are around 1200-1400 ft above sea level so, at most, 1000 ft increase. Several guys in my group are talking about how they think they will be "a club longer in AZ" which seems exaggerated to me (I am happy to let them think that!). Anyone have anecdotal thoughts? I would guess like 2-3% farther at most, no? Also will fairways still be slowish from overseed by March or firmer/faster by then? Or depends on the course (we are playing Talking Stick O'Odam, Raven, We-Ko-Pa Saguaro and Cholla). 

 

 

Unless you are talking plus HCP's probably not too much difference.  Temperature will probably be a bigger factor than elevation.  I routinely play at 6500 ft elevation and gain about a club.  So there will be minimal gain, in summer that is mitigated by higher humidity help (in places like TN).  Long way to say probably not a huge difference.  Courses will be pristine in March.  IMO best time to play is March-May for conditions.

Edited January 20, 2022 by vallygolf

[Bonneville85308]

2 hours ago, blackbdmillsaps said:

Apologies in advance for what might be a well-worn topic!

 

I know this topic has likely been beaten to death throughout the forums (the search function was a mess for this) but we are headed out to Phoenix/Scottsdale in March and will be coming from Middle TN (approx. 400-550 ft above sea level). The courses that we are playing are around 1200-1400 ft above sea level so, at most, 1000 ft increase. Several guys in my group are talking about how they think they will be "a club longer in AZ" which seems exaggerated to me (I am happy to let them think that!). Anyone have anecdotal thoughts? I would guess like 2-3% farther at most, no? Also will fairways still be slowish from overseed by March or firmer/faster by then? Or depends on the course (we are playing Talking Stick O'Odam, Raven, We-Ko-Pa Saguaro and Cholla). 

 

 

 

I've never noticed any personal difference in carry distance between courses in the Phoenix area and courses in other states at elevations 500-1000+ feet lower, IF the temperatures are the same. Of course, I do carry the ball further when it's 110 degrees out here in July compared to anywhere else I've played, since no golf-rich area in the US besides maybe Palm Springs gets that hot . But if it's 60 here and 60 in the other place? No difference. If I go up to Flagstaff where the courses are at 6,500+ elevation, I definitely notice a carry difference vs. Phoenix-area courses at 1,500 and below.

 

I do think courses around Phoenix tend to have softer/wetter fairways than courses in other areas, particularly the higher-end courses, unless you only play very late in the day around here. So I tend to get lower roll and lower overall distance on drives and shots landing in the fairway here than, say, Missouri or New York.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Bonneville85308

[Bob Cat]

On 1/18/2022 at 4:38 PM, fore_life said:

Wait is this THE Bob Cat from sldr-c fame?

 

There's a Bobcat on here and me, Bob Cat.  I'm not the "sldr-c" Bobcat.  But maybe I should look that up.

[Bob Cat]

On 1/18/2022 at 10:08 AM, AzSuperHack76 said:

Woof, Rancho is awful, sorry. 

 

Played Rancho on Tues and Oakwood Wednesday.  Home now... just in time for the flu.

 

Rancho Magnana was interesting... and short.  BIG elevation changes and great views but not in great condition.  Nice, helpful staff but probably won't be back.  Glad to have played it once though.

 

Oakwood was a flat, golf community course with ties to one in our group.  Great shape and good pace.

[Hurley]

On 1/10/2021 at 9:35 AM, gators2k said:

Looking for thoughts on Rancho Manana?

Played it yesterday and would have to say it is in very decent shape. Greens rolling nicely.....