The Stack System

[ScottHutch2]

21 hours ago, Thelamahimself said:

Hey guys - thanks for all the posts about your experience with the Stack.  I went ahead and pulled the trigger on one yesterday and now I need to get my radar.  Sounds like most of you are using the PRGR.  Is that what you would recommend?  Anyone use the Swing Caddie?  If I'm spending the money anyway, I'd like to get one that can help me with wedge distances.  

I’m using sc200+ and have enjoyed it so far. I also wanted a radar that I could get more use out of. Sc200+ is really easy to use for speed training 

[ScottHutch2]

Almost halfway through the foundations program and I wanted to update on progress. Steady increases so far, save for the few bad workouts thrown in where I just didn’t have it energy wise. Looking forward to finishing strong and moving to the next program. 
 

 

[NoCalHack]

On 1/20/2022 at 1:23 PM, phillyspecial said:

Has anyone seen faster gains on the Stack vs your actual Driver hitting balls?  I have a TM at home and have been on a serious old man speed program this winter.  

 

I'm now half way through the Full Speed after completing the Foundation.  My baseline 195g started at 89 and is now at 101 (107 e-speed).  

 

I hit drivers nearly every day.  My measured chs is up , but I cant really get it going past 100-101 maxing out at 102-103.  Im swinging max or very close, no doubt about that.  But I have been stuck there for a few weeks in that range while I am seeing real gains using the Stack.  

I actually followed nearly the exact same course as you. 

Are you using a short driver? My stack speed is 99 and it gives me an espeed of 109 based off a 45.25 inch driver. 
 

for me it’s a rough correlation but not exact. My first stack baseline I was swinging a driver around 103 and the stack e speed was 101, which was 91 on the stack I think.  My latest high is e speed 109 but im cruising at 106-107 for my floor. 
 

The stack is clearly different. It’s shorter and has a different weight distribution. The 195 gram stack has a heavier overall weight that’s a driver.

 

so there is a difference is swinging. I think a lot of the early gains people have is from learning how to swing and time the stack. And learning how to max the stack isn’t exactly like maxing a driver. 
 

But stick to it and I’m sure your driver speed will pick up. Your muscles are definitely learning how to swing faster. 
 

I haven’t measured a driver but I went to test the stealth at my pgatss and my ballspeed is definitely up. Last year I would cruise in the high 140s and last week I was in the low 150s maxing at 154 or so. Which is about right for where the stack says I should be.

[phillyspecial]

14 hours ago, NoCalHack said:

I actually followed nearly the exact same course as you. 

Are you using a short driver? My stack speed is 99 and it gives me an espeed of 109 based off a 45.25 inch driver. 
 

for me it’s a rough correlation but not exact. My first stack baseline I was swinging a driver around 103 and the stack e speed was 101, which was 91 on the stack I think.  My latest high is e speed 109 but im cruising at 106-107 for my floor. 
 

The stack is clearly different. It’s shorter and has a different weight distribution. The 195 gram stack has a heavier overall weight that’s a driver.

 

so there is a difference is swinging. I think a lot of the early gains people have is from learning how to swing and time the stack. And learning how to max the stack isn’t exactly like maxing a driver. 
 

But stick to it and I’m sure your driver speed will pick up. Your muscles are definitely learning how to swing faster. 
 

I haven’t measured a driver but I went to test the stealth at my pgatss and my ballspeed is definitely up. Last year I would cruise in the high 140s and last week I was in the low 150s maxing at 154 or so. Which is about right for where the stack says I should be.

My driver length is standard. I saw real driver gains in the first few weeks, but it has stalled hard while my stack e-speed has continued higher.  A month ago I was around 102 e-speed and 101-102 Driver max speed.  Now I am 105-108 e-speed, but driver is stuck in same place.  

[NoCalHack]

 

3 hours ago, phillyspecial said:

My driver length is standard. I saw real driver gains in the first few weeks, but it has stalled hard while my stack e-speed has continued higher.  A month ago I was around 102 e-speed and 101-102 Driver max speed.  Now I am 105-108 e-speed, but driver is stuck in same place.  

 

 

Are you basing the driver speed on the radar?

 

Driver speed on radar can be tricky. https://ping.com/en-us/blogs/proving-grounds/smashing-smash-factor

There can be a 10mph variation depending on what part of the driver is being measured.  The stack doesn't have this issue because it doesn't have a clubhead that sticks out from the shaft.  Ballspeed is a more accurate measure, if you can do that instead.

 

 

I think that that if you stick to it, the driver will catch up to the stack.  I plateaued for about 2 months after the quick initial increase.  Its possible that some of the initial increase was learning how to swing the stack, and if you keep it up it should translate to the driver.

 

[puresurfr]

22 hours ago, ScottHutch2 said:

Almost halfway through the foundations program and I wanted to update on progress. Steady increases so far, save for the few bad workouts thrown in where I just didn’t have it energy wise. Looking forward to finishing strong and moving to the next program. 
 

 

 

 

Those are some excellent gains.....WAIT until u get to the Full Speed Spectrum part, i found that part really boosted speed !

[ScottHutch2]

1 hour ago, puresurfr said:

 

 

Those are some excellent gains.....WAIT until u get to the Full Speed Spectrum part, i found that part really boosted speed !

Thanks! It’s been great so far. First time ever doing speed training of any sort. I was worried that what I was seeing from the stack wouldn’t translate to the driver, but I swung driver without hitting a ball and hit 121 a few times. Can’t wait to finish this up and hit the FSS program. That should coincide with when I start to actually hit balls again as well. 

[phillyspecial]

16 hours ago, NoCalHack said:

 

 

 

Are you basing the driver speed on the radar?

 

Driver speed on radar can be tricky. https://ping.com/en-us/blogs/proving-grounds/smashing-smash-factor

There can be a 10mph variation depending on what part of the driver is being measured.  The stack doesn't have this issue because it doesn't have a clubhead that sticks out from the shaft.  Ballspeed is a more accurate measure, if you can do that instead.

 

 

I think that that if you stick to it, the driver will catch up to the stack.  I plateaued for about 2 months after the quick initial increase.  Its possible that some of the initial increase was learning how to swing the stack, and if you keep it up it should translate to the driver.

 

I ran a test last night that I had not done yet for some reason.  

 

I use the SS radar blue.  Dry driver swing = 108 which I was able to replicate hitting balls.  Matches up with my espeed.  

 

Those same swings on the TM were 101.  

 

Now I understand all the various issues with the SS radar and the tendency to read ~5mph+ fast.  But I thought that the Stack app adjusted for all of that in their espeed calculation.  Is that not correct?  

[maximusppl]

11 hours ago, phillyspecial said:

I ran a test last night that I had not done yet for some reason.  

 

I use the SS radar blue.  Dry driver swing = 108 which I was able to replicate hitting balls.  Matches up with my espeed.  

 

Those same swings on the TM were 101.  

 

Now I understand all the various issues with the SS radar and the tendency to read ~5mph+ fast.  But I thought that the Stack app adjusted for all of that in their espeed calculation.  Is that not correct?  

 

Keep in mind that Trackman Swing Speed is measured at the CG of the head. On the Driver, this can be a 2-3mph difference (less) than something like a GCQUAD which measures speed at the face and point of impact. This is why you will also see higher smash factor on Trackman vs GCQuad with the same exact ball speed numbers, due to a slight difference in clubhead speed. 

 

Sometimes there is something mental when we are trying to hit balls with the same speed. When there isn't a ball there our minds are free'er and clearer. 

[phillyspecial]

12 hours ago, maximusppl said:

 

Keep in mind that Trackman Swing Speed is measured at the CG of the head. On the Driver, this can be a 2-3mph difference (less) than something like a GCQUAD which measures speed at the face and point of impact. This is why you will also see higher smash factor on Trackman vs GCQuad with the same exact ball speed numbers, due to a slight difference in clubhead speed. 

 

Sometimes there is something mental when we are trying to hit balls with the same speed. When there isn't a ball there our minds are free'er and clearer. 

Yep understood on the various limitations/differences on TM/GCQ/SSR.  I just thought that given all the data and the specification of the radar you are using that the Stack converted the SSR implied Driver speed (Stack SSR to Driver SSR) to a more accurate baseline Driver SS given that we know SSR measures the Driver SS ~5mph high (or whatever the accepted avg is).  Thats the part I am confused about.  

 

I'm gaining speed using the Stack and love the product.  I just want to understand what my espeed really means if Im using SSR.  

[maximusppl]

Oh I see, understood. I think if you are seeing gains with your real driver when hitting a ball, that's the main thing. 

[Seamus_McDuff]

I don’t think the app makes any adjustments based on your speed measuring device. 

[Forged4life]

1 hour ago, Seamus_McDuff said:

I don’t think the app makes any adjustments based on your speed measuring device. 

It’s supposed to, apparently that’s why it asks which unit you are using when you start the program. 

[puresurfr]

The App does give different measurements for SSR vs Garmin G80

I started out with a Stack Speed of 98 and that translated to a eSpeed of 105

Changed to Garmin G80 and Stack Speed of 99 translated to a eSpeed of 110

 

* My espeed may be higher than others who also use Garmin because i have a 46.25" driver

Edited January 26, 2022 by puresurfr

[Seamus_McDuff]

1 hour ago, Forged4life said:

It’s supposed to, apparently that’s why it asks which unit you are using when you start the program. 

I just assumed it was data collection. 

 

21 minutes ago, puresurfr said:

The App does give different measurements for SSR vs Garmin G80

I started out with a Stack Speed of 98 and that translated to a eSpeed of 105

Changed to Garmin G80 and Stack Speed of 99 translated to a eSpeed of 110

Interesting, my PRGR is +9 

[puresurfr]

On 1/26/2022 at 9:01 AM, Seamus_McDuff said:

I just assumed it was data collection. 

 

Interesting, my PRGR is +9 

 

I just bought a PRGR to see the swing speed difference......My driver is 46.25" so that may boost my eSpeed as well

[puresurfr]

Got some gains finally.......took about 42 workouts but im finally seeing something.  I think I still have to keep my workouts going for 6 months just to keep these gains.  im working my way around a bad shoulder and golfer's elbow.

 

* Hahaha these definitely aint Wax numbers but im trying....one day at a time

[ScottHutch2]

On 2/1/2022 at 5:21 PM, puresurfr said:

Got some gains finally.......took about 42 workouts but im finally seeing something.  I think I still have to keep my workouts going for 6 months just to keep these gains.  im working my way around a bad shoulder and golfer's elbow.

 

* Hahaha these definitely aint Wax numbers but im trying....one day at a time

Nice breakthrough! Keep grinding 

[BB28403]

Reading thru this whole thread I’m just curious if any of you stack users feel that you have dropped strokes due to it?

[puresurfr]

Im not sure if the Stack has dropped strokes to my score, this system was released in the off season and im looking forwards to getting some time on the course.  The Stack Speed Stick isn't the same length or swing weight as a driver so it may take some time to use adjust back to the driver and the gains.  I started at 103 (SSR ) at the beginning of foundations and i have got to 112 ( Garmin G80 ).  Calculating that SSR reads 3-5mph fast, i would calculate that i went from 100-112.  That is the good news, however i have only seen about 2-3 mph increase in speed at the range. and about 5 mph in ball speed ( max )  I think it will take some time to acclimate to the swing speed but im happy and it does take awhile, i dont have fast gains at my age.  Im about 45 sessions into Stack Speed and just started FSD Round 2.

[Max21]

On 2/11/2022 at 7:31 PM, BB28403 said:

Reading thru this whole thread I’m just curious if any of you stack users feel that you have dropped strokes due to it?

 

Went from a 17 to an 11 this past year (hopefully that trend continues). Although i worked really hard on my swing and got lessons throughout 2021 its hard to ignore the role that the gains in distance have played. Last January my average driver SS as mentioned previously was somewhere between 89 - 93 mph on 10 or so swings and it jumped to 109 with the fastest being 113. Much different game for me going from driver to 7 iron on a par 4 to a driver and a 9 iron. Plus just much more effortless power on the longer clubs. Hopefully that makes sense? lol

[maximusppl]

Re-did my baseline for foundations today. Gonna have to push myself to do the workouts! 
 

 

[games]

They just added Mevo+ to the list of Stack approved radars.  
 

Early in thread, someone asked about replacing the grip, but got no response. The Stack FAQ says the grip can be replaced, just don’t clamp it too tight. I’ll put a midsize leather grip on mine so don’t need to regrip again.

 

[Billy Long Ball]

On 7/9/2021 at 12:08 PM, Carolina Golfer 2 said:

That was the reason I ended up going wit The Stack, the app and a program that walks you through it.   Plus with Marty Jertson behind it, I figured it has to be pretty solid. 

Yes, on the radar.  I have an SC200 and it would not register without hitting a ball.   So I had t spring for the baisc Swing Speed Radar from Sports Sensors for $117.  It worked fine in a quck test this morning.

 

On another note, I'm going to sell my SC200 and Rapsodo as I have preordered a Garmin R10.   I mean how many personal LM's does a guy need...ha

Is Marty Jertson a big deal? I'm new to golf and just wondering.

[HitSomeMissSome]

9 hours ago, Billy Long Ball said:

Is Marty Jertson a big deal? I'm new to golf and just wondering.

 

He's one of the primary engineers at PING and one of the best players in the Southwest PGA Section. He's a sharp guy who can flat out golf his ball. 

[Carolina Golfer 2]

23 hours ago, Billy Long Ball said:

Is Marty Jertson a big deal? I'm new to golf and just wondering.

Yes, exactly what HitSome said above.   He has worn many hats at PING from developing many of it's succesful club lines, to now heading up the custom fitting department.  And plays some pretty good golf in his spare time.   Has qualifired for the PGA Championship a couple times.  

[philiph50]

On 2/12/2022 at 9:48 AM, puresurfr said:

Im not sure if the Stack has dropped strokes to my score, this system was released in the off season and im looking forwards to getting some time on the course.  The Stack Speed Stick isn't the same length or swing weight as a driver so it may take some time to use adjust back to the driver and the gains.  I started at 103 (SSR ) at the beginning of foundations and i have got to 112 ( Garmin G80 ).  Calculating that SSR reads 3-5mph fast, i would calculate that i went from 100-112.  That is the good news, however i have only seen about 2-3 mph increase in speed at the range. and about 5 mph in ball speed ( max )  I think it will take some time to acclimate to the swing speed but im happy and it does take awhile, i dont have fast gains at my age.  Im about 45 sessions into Stack Speed and just started FSD Round 2.

I went with the RypStick instead of the Stack for that reason. All speed sticks have shown to improve a player's speed if they stick to the program. What RypGolf offered with fitness, swing assessment, and swing fault drills, this is what has helped me improve my swing with the increased speed. Happy to say I'm up 15-20 mph on average since I first started 2-3 months ago. Additionally, the RypStick with their radar is much cheaper.

[Seamus_McDuff]

There’s an app update that looks promising with some new programs and graphs. However, after finishing today’s session I was taken to a screen I can’t get rid of and go back to my program. I’ve contacted them and they’re looking into it. 
 

 

[RCGA]

I know you're not supposed to worry too much about form when training, but today I decided to film my swing while speed training. 

 

I has really flippy through impact. Might be from the lighter club or the fact that I'm not hitting a ball. 

 

Anyone else experience the same thing? 

[Seamus_McDuff]

39 minutes ago, Seamus_McDuff said:

There’s an app update that looks promising with some new programs and graphs. However, after finishing today’s session I was taken to a screen I can’t get rid of and go back to my program. I’ve contacted them and they’re looking into it. 
 

 

 

They fixed it. Apparently “change program” was hit(maybe in my pocket) and there’s no way to undo it(yet), so don’t do that.
 

Excellent customer service!