It's time, Pro's (and others) should get relief from divots...

[tgoodspe1991]

Just finished watching today's coverage and was pretty bummed for Westwood to see his awesome drive on 18 end up in a divot... to me, it pretty clearly affected how average his second shot was.

 

With recent rule changes, golfers can tap down spike marks on greens and fix any blemish they choose. As we're seeing on TV, Pro's can apparently get free 2-club relief from just about anywhere (/s). Yet, if you hit a great drive in the fairway that ends up in a divot, you're screwed. Why?! It seems pretty dumb. 

 

Divots aren't the natural condition of the golf course, they are a "used" condition from groups ahead of you. If you're allowed to tap down spike marks and other blemishes on a putting surface that's in "used" condition caused by those same groups ahead of you, then why not allow players to take quick relief from a fairway divot? Also, if it's a rainy tournament and playing "lift, clean, and place", you're going to be able to move your ball from that divot anyway, so just make the divot rule universal. 

 

Maybe it's just me, but I think it's time for a change.

[larciel]

Yeah. I'm not sure what's so hard about this. Are they worried this will give players an unfair edge?

 

It's same as 'pick-up and clean'. If you're in Fairway and in a divot, replace the ball 2 inches away. 

 

Duh.

[shot-savior]

Agree.

[Qqq123xx]

Concur. 

[nikeblades00]

I agree with OP. Basically the later tee times get penalized by having more risk of hitting a divot, so players in contention on weekends.

 

 

 

[straightshot7]

Agreed except it may add more delays and rules confusion. 

What constitutes a divot? What if it's old and almost recovered?

 

I can see more calling over officials to determine if the player should receive relief or not.

[Strömsborg]

1 hour ago, straightshot7 said:

Agreed except it may add more delays and rules confusion. 

What constitutes a divot? What if it's old and almost recovered?

 

I can see more calling over officials to determine if the player should receive relief or not.

Yes, and exactly how is the relief supposed to happen? Placing the ball within say six inches is like teeing it upp. It gives the player a better lie than if he had missed the divot in the first place and that's not in the spirit of the game.

And if we make it a drop it must be within a larger area, maybe a club length, and that gives the player the possibility to drop away from say sloping or muddy ground or even get a significantly better angle if this takes place close to the green.

[3whacker]

IMO a divot in the fairway is Ground Under Repair and fair and equitable relief should be given within the rules and spirit of the game...I know golf purists will disagree but if you give relief from yardage markers, French drains, and sprinkler heads, which are all man made hazards/obstructions, then so is a divot...the ball should be placed as close to the divot as possible no nearer the hole and without cleaning the ball

Edited March 8, 2021 by 3whacker
spelling

[jordan2240]

2 hours ago, straightshot7 said:

Agreed except it may add more delays and rules confusion. 

What constitutes a divot? What if it's old and almost recovered?

 

I can see more calling over officials to determine if the player should receive relief or not.

Therein lies the problem.  We've seen delays before (Matt Kuchar anyone) because a player felt his ball was in an imperfection where relief should be granted, so I have no doubt some would have no hesitation in calling over a rules official any time they felt their ball wasn't in a spot representing the 'natural condition' of the golf course.  And aren't divots the 'natural condition' of the course anyway?  Initially, I felt the same way as the OP, and have voiced such before when it's happened to other players, but thinking about it further, perhaps it's best to just leave it alone since it seems to happen rarely anyway (though no doubt way more than what is televised), and hey, they're pros, so they should be able to handle it.

[KennyP]

Whilst Westwood was clearly in a divot, you would effectively open the door to lift clean and place every shot.

 

Pro's get too much free relief, not too little.

 

[Snaphooker12]

This would be abused to no end. 

[Ferguson]

7 minutes ago, Snaphooker12 said:

This would be abused to no end. 

 

Indeed.  Divots are a part of the game - tough break, like landing behind a tree. 

Next are we going to say we should NOT have to putt through an old ball mark? 

 

"Look, Rex, an old divot."  

"Oh, Hank, you get relief."

 

No.  Play it as it lies.

[Superbrit]

Leave it as it is even though it is unlucky

 

And besides imagine Patrick Reed trying to play a full round, take 6 hours!

Edited March 8, 2021 by Superbrit

[Cincy_Ken]

10 minutes ago, Snaphooker12 said:

This would be abused to no end. 

I think that's the problem.  I completely agree that I don't want to see a player penalized for striping one down the fairway.  But I also don't want every time your ball comes to rest in the fairway you grab it and move it 6 in.  One idea I had was give someone 2 free moves from the fairway but that's even more gimmicky than just letting them move it all the time.  

 

I agree with the intent of giving relief though and if someone comes up with a way to implement that every ball from the fairway/fringe doesn't get picked up and moved I'm all in.

[Creedo77]

Nope not for me. You’d have guys wanting all sorts of relief that they shouldn’t get

[bladehunter]

Disagree.  It’s been discussed at great length here , and the question always is “ how do you define a divot “.  
 

this always devolves into giving players ball in hand in then fairway.  Which is a non starter.  
 

play it as you found it.  

[MattyO1984]

Sincerely hope that they don’t go about changing it. The mess that it would create would take away any benefit. Seems like the more any sport attempts to refine the rules, the more ridiculous they become. Could you imagine how much time would be wasted trying to decide if it was a divot or not? Easy pass for me.

[Aviador Naval]

Westwood caught a bad break that was magnified by the fact Bryson requested - and was granted - relief every time the sun spots from Uranus were in his line of sight.

 

I’d prefer to see them go the way of declining more relief requests and perhaps consider removing rakes from bunkers or at least take steps to make them penal vice a bailout from the challenge of hitting from the rough.  So your right foot is on the cart path in your stance.  Tough $h!t, the cart path is no less natural than the tree that was planted in the rough during construction of the course.  Jack’s proposal from years ago of the rake with different length tines seems reasonable.  Bryson wanking about a fried egg after dunking a moon ball approach  into the greenside bunker was pretty telling...

Edited March 8, 2021 by Aviador Naval

[Man_O_War]

agreed.. and for those who think it's not in the spirit of the game and should play as it lies...then play embedded  balls too. It's what your shot gave you. You play embedded balls in the bunkers... 

[Ferguson]

1 minute ago, Aviador Naval said:

Westwood caught a bad break that was magnified by the fact Bryson requested - and was granted - relief every time the sun spots from Uranus were in his line of sight.

 

I’d prefer to see them go the way of declining more relief requests and perhaps consider removing rakes from bunkers or at least take steps to make them penal vice a bailout from the challenge of hitting from the rough.  So your left foot is on the cart path in your stance.  Tough $h!t, the cart path is no less natural than the tree that was planted in the rough during construction of the course.  Jack’s proposal from years ago of the rake with different length tines seems reasonable.  Bryson wanking about a fried egg after dunking a very high s*** into the greenside bunker was pretty telling...

 

And NO MORE BREAD BEFORE DINNER, it's empty carbs!

 

 

 

 

[bladehunter]

4 minutes ago, Man_O_War said:

agreed.. and for those who think it's not in the spirit of the game and should play as it lies...then play embedded  balls too. It's what your shot gave you. You play embedded balls in the bunkers... 

I’m for that.  I’d take most any relief away if I had a choice. 

[SlothofDespond]

Agree, no one should have to hit out of divot in the fairway.

 

I'm not opposed to lift, clean, and place at all times in the fairway either.

[AndersUK]

They are probably concerned how Patrick Reed might abuse such a rule and tee it up on grass each time.

[MtlJeff]

I'm not passionate either way. I think you should get a good lie in the fairway...

 

However, i agree with others that defining a divot would become very cumbersome and time consuming. I would imagine It would lengthen rounds noticeably when it comes to pros. You would have some guys ending up in like 8 divots a round

 

For the amount of time it happens, i don't care if they keep it as is. Westwood ended up in a divot on 18 sure....How many divots was Bryson in throughout the week? Probably at least one. Whether it happens on the 72nd hole of the 7th....same thing

[milesgiles]

34 minutes ago, Man_O_War said:

agreed.. and for those who think it's not in the spirit of the game and should play as it lies...then play embedded  balls too. It's what your shot gave you. You play embedded balls in the bunkers... 

 

in the rough, no relief. 

 

in the fairway, youre just damaging the course to prove a point

[milesgiles]

11 minutes ago, SlothofDespond said:

Agree, no one should have to hit out of divot in the fairway.

 

I'm not opposed to lift, clean, and place at all times in the fairway either.

 

yeah why not. Its not quite enough of a clown show yet 

[cav5]

Deleted

Edited November 27, 2021 by cav5

[chillybilly]

I still remember an on-air moment when Jack Nicklaus was still on the regular tour - he visited the booth and did some guest commentary.

 

Someone's drive came to rest in a divot.  Jack said, 'I don't care what the rulebook says to me that's ground under repair.'  I agreed then and I agree now.

 

A divot would seem to be the epitome of ground under repair since a) the ground has been disturbed, damaged, etc. and b) if it's unfilled it's under repair by nature or c) if it's filled with sand or the old divot it's under repair by man.

 

I'm all for rub of the green but....

 

If the Rules of Golf overall aren't changed then one more rule among many local rules for Tour events shouldn't be an issue.  With 40 cameras on every hole, rules officials, etc. it shouldn't be a problem.

Edited March 8, 2021 by chillybilly

[tungstenplug]

I estimate I've ended up in a divot 3 times in my past 100 rounds. Are you guys ending up in significantly more than that?

 

I like seeing who can hit good shots out of bad lies, to me that identifies a better golfer

 

Westwood hit his shot on the green from a divot and made par on a difficult hole. Excellent golfer

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by tungstenplug

[milesgiles]

13 minutes ago, chillybilly said:

I still remember an on-air moment when Jack Nicklaus was still on the regular tour - he visited the booth and did some guest commentary.

 

Someone's drive came to rest in a divot.  Jack said, 'I don't care what the rulebook says to me that's ground under repair.'  I agreed then and I agree now.

 

A divot would seem to be the epitome of ground under repair since a) the ground has been disturbed, damaged, etc. and b) if it's unfilled it's under repair by nature or c) if it's filled with sand or the old divot it's under repair by man.

 

I'm all for rub of the green but....

 

If the Rules of Golf overall aren't changed then one more rule among many local rules for Tour events shouldn't be an issue.  With 40 cameras on every hole, rules officials, etc. it shouldn't be a problem.

 

 

literally abour 12 people above you have all mad the same point, which youve completely ignored : what IS a divot.

 

Do you people not read a thread before commenting?