It's time, Pro's (and others) should get relief from divots...

[Superbrit]

10 minutes ago, tungstenplug said:

I estimate I've ended up in a divot 3 times in my past 100 rounds. Are you guys ending up in significantly more than that?

 

I like seeing who can hit good shots out of bad lies, to me that identifies a better golfer

 

Westwood hit his shot on the green from a divot and made par on a difficult hole. Excellent golfer

 

I agree, cant even remember the last time i was in a divot, but it can be different on tour, a lot of players are hitting in to the same area, but its still not a lot, or doesn't seem to be, Westwood's just got emphasized due to when it happened and the cameraman followed it all the way in

[bubbagump]

1 hour ago, Ferguson said:

 

Indeed.  Divots are a part of the game - tough break, like landing behind a tree. 

Next are we going to say we should NOT have to putt through an old ball mark? 

 

"Look, Rex, an old divot."  

"Oh, Hank, you get relief."

 

No.  Play it as it lies.

 

Hitting dead center fairway and landing in a prior divot is not the same as landing behind a tree off in the rough.  

[Ferguson]

5 minutes ago, bubbagump said:

 

Hitting dead center fairway and landing in a prior divot is not the same as landing behind a tree off in the rough.  

 

Ah, but all three lies require a player to use his/her head.   

 

Bryson was dead center, no divot and still aimed left. 

 

 

Nothing in golf is perfect and changing rules won't make it perfect. 

[DavidCrockett]

You don't have to play out of divots if you're the longest player off the tee, hitting past the normal landing areas.  That's how I avoid them.

[Ferguson]

Just now, DavidCrockett said:

You don't have to play out of divots if you're the longest player off the tee, hitting past the normal landing areas.  That's how I avoid them.

 

 

30 posts in and Crockett is firing on all cylinders.  

 

 

 

I like that in a poster. 

 

[sbjinx]

agreed. I get how this might open the door for players to take advantage but I think if your ball ends up in a divot in the fairway you should get relief. 

[DavidCrockett]

6 minutes ago, Ferguson said:

 

 

30 posts in and Crockett is firing on all cylinders.  

 

 

 

I like that in a poster. 

 

 

I wasn't below 10,000 for more than a few seconds.  I had the shot, there was no danger, so I took it.

[oikos1]

Nicklaus's take on sand filled divots:

 

 

[MattyO1984]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

I’m for that.  I’d take most any relief away if I had a choice. 

 

I genuinely cannot remember an occasion when I have had a ball embed not on the green. Difference in course condition and grasses is likely the explanation behind that but I am all for playing it as it lies. The brigade that are looking for a drop when there is a sprinkler that they might, possibly, ever so slightly stand on is something I hate to see.

[puttingmatt]

I really wonder why a divot is not considered " ground under repair "

The R&A and USGA can make the rule equitable for players, and still keep the spirit of the game intact.

One club length, no closer to the hole,

 

[tungstenplug]

 

Are these "divots"? Would you get relief from any or all of these?

[RainShadow]

In golf, like life, ya get some good breaks and some bad breaks.

It's all in how you react to, and deal with them.

It's been like that since the beginning.

I understand the argument, but that's the way the ball bounces....

 

[MtlJeff]

38 minutes ago, MattyO1984 said:

 

I genuinely cannot remember an occasion when I have had a ball embed not on the green. Difference in course condition and grasses is likely the explanation behind that but I am all for playing it as it lies. The brigade that are looking for a drop when there is a sprinkler that they might, possibly, ever so slightly stand on is something I hate to see.

 

Yeah that depends so much on the course. I play in the northeast, wet conditions...Some holes have a lot of elevation drops. 

 

Embedded balls very common. So is mud on balls....But that is a different thread!

[Creedo77]

So we’d basically have ball in hand every week. You’d see scores even lower than what they are if you allow pros to have perfect lies. This would essentially make the game less difficult.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

12 hours ago, tgoodspe1991 said:

Just finished watching today's coverage and was pretty bummed for Westwood to see his awesome drive on 18 end up in a divot... to me, it pretty clearly affected how average his second shot was.

 

With recent rule changes, golfers can tap down spike marks on greens and fix any blemish they choose. As we're seeing on TV, Pro's can apparently get free 2-club relief from just about anywhere (/s). Yet, if you hit a great drive in the fairway that ends up in a divot, you're screwed. Why?! It seems pretty dumb. 

 

Divots aren't the natural condition of the golf course, they are a "used" condition from groups ahead of you. If you're allowed to tap down spike marks and other blemishes on a putting surface that's in "used" condition caused by those same groups ahead of you, then why not allow players to take quick relief from a fairway divot? Also, if it's a rainy tournament and playing "lift, clean, and place", you're going to be able to move your ball from that divot anyway, so just make the divot rule universal. 

 

Maybe it's just me, but I think it's time for a change.

When does a divot stop being a divot and relief should not be permitted?  That is the problem and would open it to abuse. Example BD's relief near the green yesterday is the kind of behavior that would lead to abuse of a divot relief rule.  "Oh is see some discoloration under my ball, so it must be a divot I need relief from."   Yeah it would be a disaster. 

 

The only workable solution I could ever see is something that eliminates the judgement call on whether it's still a divot or not.  While I'm opposed to a divot relief rule, if it were my job to write one, then I might proposed the following.  A player is allowed free relief from their fairway lie for whatever reason they want no more than once per round.  The ball would be dropped within 1 standard grip length of the original location no nearer the hole.  Like I said I'm opposed to divot relief but if you were my boss and you told me to write one then I'd start there.   

 

A more pragmatic way to deal with the risk of landing in a divot is to lay up short of the high divot density or attempt to bomb over it. 

Edited March 8, 2021 by BlackDiamondPar5

[chillybilly]

2 hours ago, milesgiles said:

 

 

literally abour 12 people above you have all mad the same point, which youve completely ignored : what IS a divot.

 

Do you people not read a thread before commenting?

 

Literally abour?  Or is it literally about?  And how is something literal (specific/exact) and about (vague/estimated) simultaneously?

 

I mean, if you're going to be pedantic forum cop I suppose we can play along.

 

Please provide your strict criteria for participating in a public, open forum so that we may avoid future transgressions and thoughtcrime.

 

For the record, I did read the thread.  But I have apparently failed to meet the demands of a total stranger.  I shall now don the hairshirt for the remainder of the week.

Edited March 8, 2021 by chillybilly

[Old Tom Morris]

 Lee shouldn’t have hit it into the divot scrape, and then he wouldn’t have to hit it out of the scrape.  

 

Lee also should have made at least two more putts on the inward nine.

 

The basic premise of the game is playing the ball as it lies.

[sharkiesj]

2 words come to mind when this topic comes up: 

 

Entitlement and Deserve. 
 

When you play golf, you’re not entitled to anything and deserve’s got nothing to do with it. 
 

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by sharkiesj

[bladehunter]

13 minutes ago, chillybilly said:

 

Literally abour?  Or is it literally about?  And how is something literal (specific/exact) and about (vague/estimated) simultaneously?

 

I mean, if you're going to be pedantic forum cop I suppose we can play along.

 

Please provide your strict criteria for participating in a public, open forum so that we may avoid future transgressions and thoughtcrime.

 

For the record, I did read the thread.  But I have apparently failed to meet the demands of a total stranger.  I shall now don the hairshirt for the remainder of the week.

Passes hairshirt to chilly billy.  
 

 

whew.  I was tired of wearing that thing. It’s hot.  

[Krt22]

First time hearing this opinion...this year

[nsxguy]

2 hours ago, milesgiles said:

 

 

literally abour 12 people above you have all mad the same point, which youve completely ignored : what IS a divot.

 

Do you people not read a thread before commenting?

 

Do people proofread their posts before hitting "Submit" ? (Hint - the answer is usually "No")

 

I would guess, generally speaking of course, people read through a thread until they hit a post they feel strongly about agreeing or disagreeing with and they reply right then and there.

 

They do NOT read through the entire thread and then go back.

 

 

23 minutes ago, chillybilly said:

 

Literally abour?  Or is it literally about?  And how is something literal (specific/exact) and about (vague/estimated) simultaneously?

 

I mean, if you're going to be pedantic forum cop I suppose we can play along.

 

Please provide your strict criteria for participating in a public, open forum so that we may avoid future transgressions and thoughtcrime.

 

For the record, I did read the thread.  But I have apparently failed to meet the demands of a total stranger.  I shall now don the hairshirt for the remainder of the week.

 

[manku]

We play winter rules 365 days a year....golf is hard enough as without being penalized for a good shot.

 

But I don't play tournament golf, and don't gamble.   And the tournaments I do play are usually some form of scramble...which means the best cheaters win!

[disco111]

35 minutes ago, Old Tom Morris said:

The basic premise of the game is playing the ball as it lies.

And yet we have have numerous allowances,within the rules, that allow for not adhering to that premise................

[oikos1]

21 minutes ago, sharkiesj said:

2 words come to mind when this topic comes up: 

 

Entitlement and Deserve. 
 

When you play golf, you’re not entitled to anything and deserve’s got nothing to do with it. 
 

 

Lol.  Except if you keep a handicap.  In that case, I've been told numerous times in these forums not only do you deserve the strokes you claim, you are entitled to them. 

[Old Tom Morris]

4 minutes ago, disco111 said:

And yet we have have numerous allowances,within the rules, that allow for not adhering to that premise................

Not that complicated .  Immovable obstruction, casual water, burrowing animal,  sometimes landscaped areas or newly planted staked trees as outlined in the local rules sheet, and usually the imbedded ball rule “through the green” also indicated on the local rules sheet. 

[Soloman1]

This issue will go away when courses are built and modified with all artificial turf fairways. The rough is the rough. There will be subdued color yardage lines like football to see how far you hit your drive and far it is to the front of the green. No aeration, no plugs, no divots, no grass clippings, no rocks no burrowing animals, no ant hills, no tractors in your way while you're playing, no sprinklers/irrigation.

[tiderider]

1 hour ago, puttingmatt said:

I really wonder why a divot is not considered " ground under repair "

The R&A and USGA can make the rule equitable for players, and still keep the spirit of the game intact.

One club length, no closer to the hole,

 

prolly should be a pga tour rule ... 

[Christosterone]

 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

1 hour ago, tungstenplug said:

 

Are these "divots"? Would you get relief from any or all of these?

This photo and question should be posted every time someone suggests a divot relief rule. 

[dropkicked]

1 hour ago, MtlJeff said:

 

Yeah that depends so much on the course. I play in the northeast, wet conditions...Some holes have a lot of elevation drops. 

 

Embedded balls very common. So is mud on balls....But that is a different thread!

I'll agree with this. I have a pub that ill play maybe once a season, that was built on flood plains... depending on the amount of rain received, the tee balls will plug into the fairways.... depending on the angle of descent, the ball can literally disappear and bury itself.. I've also witnessed second shots plug in the rough..  its very much possible, depending on course conditions.