It's time, Pro's (and others) should get relief from divots...

[Pnwpingi210]

1 minute ago, munichop said:

Agree

yet they now allow tapping down the green in certain circumstances when before it was the rub of the green. So they have made changes. This one remains for now.

I think the difference is the ball is meant to travel across the surface of the green. 

[munichop]

11 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

I think the difference is the ball is meant to travel across the surface of the green. 

But the rules don’t require you to play the shot on the green surface. Guys can play the ball in the air on the greens. For years the rub of the green was the response to tapping down the green. Now it is allowed. The rules have been modified. Maybe that is why the randomness defense seems… random.

[Pnwpingi210]

1 minute ago, munichop said:

But the rules don’t require you to play the shot on the green surface. Guys can play the ball in the air on the greens. For years the rub of the green was the response to tapping down the green. Now it is allowed. The rules have been modified. Maybe that is why the randomness defense seems… random.

The cost of maintaining greens if playing the ball in the air become more common would untenable for most course. 
 

It’s a false equivalence comparing the two

 

[nsxguy]

On 7/22/2025 at 2:17 PM, Carson33 said:

I play competitive golf and know how to hit out of a divot, but there are some times where you just have no chance.

 

How many times a year do you have "no chance" ?

 

Or even land in a divot to begin with ?  

[nsxguy]

On 7/22/2025 at 2:30 PM, DCDeac said:

 

Let's say we're playing a match and you're up 1 on me headed to #18.  We both hit perfect drives right down the middle, but you get me by 5 yards.  So I putt my ball right behind yours.  I have you mark it so I can play my next shot, then I take out a crazy big 64* wedge with 0 degrees of bounce and rip a cavern out of the ground and advance my ball 30 yards.   I snag the divot and toss it into a lake.  

 

Should you be able to hit your next shot on a nice lie in the fairway or should you have to replace your ball exactly where your mark is in the middle of the divot where you have no chance of hitting anything other than the top quarter of the ball?  Is that similar to having a shot above your feet in the fairway?

 

 

[nsxguy]

On 7/23/2025 at 12:53 PM, Danielson said:

 

 

Why not? It's a game of honor. Everyone knows what a divot looks like. If you think you're in a clear divot, take relief. If your playing partners disagree, you get penalized. 

 

20 hours ago, Danielson said:

 

Is that not pretty much how it works now with dozens of other rules? 

 

Don't need dozens, but why don't you name 5 or 6 of them ?

 

TIA

[nsxguy]

5 hours ago, SnowbirdTom said:

 

And if you read the post, I laughed about it. It was totally fair. So is hitting in a divot.  If you don't like the lie, take an unplayable and drop it out of the divot. THAT was the point which sailed over your head.

 

Not an analogous situation at all.

 

Your dignity and self-esteem aside for "taking your medicine" aside, YOU hit a poor shot to a place you should NOT have hit it.

 

The "divot in the fairway" guys, in the vast majority of circumstances, hit it right where they were supposed to.

 

And no, I do NOT support free relief from divots. 

[SnowbirdTom]

In all honesty, this should probably been in the rules forum so it wouldn’t have been seen by 98% of the members. Many of us won’t venture there either due to the nit picking and  nano-dissection of a single word.

[Danielson]

1 hour ago, nsxguy said:

 

 

Don't need dozens, but why don't you name 5 or 6 of them ?

 

TIA

 

Sure:

 

1) Finding a drop on your line for OB balls

2) Taking relief from sprinklers

3) Taking relief from burrowing animals

4) Taking TIO relief

5) Whether or not the ball moved at address

 

 

 

[NorthTexasGlfr]

6 hours ago, Danielson said:

 

The point that people who want relief are making is that hitting it in the fairway and landing in a divot is unlucky, you hit it in the fairway and in theory deserve a decent lie. Hitting it in the trees and being stuck in a lie with roots all over is not unlucky, you hit it in the trees and deserve nothing.

 

This got me to thinking. 

 

If I hit my ball into the trees and it hits a tree and rebounds back into the fairway but ends up in a divot, do I deserve a decent lie? And did I get lucky or unlucky?

 

Just wondering. 

[AZBRONCFAN]

It amazes me how many people that i have played golf with over the years that noodle their ball out of habit. Even if they have a perfect lie they need to touch it!

[Danielson]

37 minutes ago, NorthTexasGlfr said:

 

This got me to thinking. 

 

If I hit my ball into the trees and it hits a tree and rebounds back into the fairway but ends up in a divot, do I deserve a decent lie? And did I get lucky or unlucky?

 

Just wondering. 

 

I think once the ball hits the tree it's in god's hands. It coming back into the fairway means you're living right, but then it landing in a divot means you're not living all the way right. The karmic slider is a cruel mistress sometimes. 

[Carson33]

4 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

How many times a year do you have "no chance" ?

 

Or even land in a divot to begin with ?  

Based on the number of comments and quotes you have posted in the few minutes, I am assuming you are not looking for an honest answer and only looking to get into an internet argument.

 

However, if you do per chance want an honest answer. I play golf 3-4 days a week and play in a tournament twice a month during the season. How many times in a divot during the year - once or twice per month. Usually no issue. In a divot with no chance to legitimately hit the green??? About once per year.

 

Example for you; hit a drive down the middle on a par 5, have about 210-220 into the green. Usually a long iron shot and easy birdie, but it is right in the front edge of a steep divot and you have “no chance” to get the ball on the green (or even near it). You just have to wedge it out about 100 yards and then try to make birdie with your wedge and putter. Guy who is 6” beside you makes an easy birdie to gain a stroke on you.

 

Again, my initial post. I am ok with “rub of the green”, but extend that through the rules. I just do not understand why we are allowed (and the rules have relaxed on these items recently) to remove loose impediments in bunkers, in penalty areas when those are supposed to “penalties” and we can tap down imperfections on the green, but let’s plant a flag in the ground on the guy that hits one down the middle of the fairway and then gets penalized on “rub of the green”.

[NosajNeelik]

9 hours ago, Danielson said:

 

The point that people who want relief are making is that hitting it in the fairway and landing in a divot is unlucky, you hit it in the fairway and in theory deserve a decent lie. Hitting it in the trees and being stuck in a lie with roots all over is not unlucky, you hit it in the trees and deserve nothing.

He’s not asking for anything. It’s not hard 

[Pnwpingi210]

11 minutes ago, Carson33 said:

Based on the number of comments and quotes you have posted in the few minutes, I am assuming you are not looking for an honest answer and only looking to get into an internet argument.

 

However, if you do per chance want an honest answer. I play golf 3-4 days a week and play in a tournament twice a month during the season. How many times in a divot during the year - once or twice per month. Usually no issue. In a divot with no chance to legitimately hit the green??? About once per year.

 

Example for you; hit a drive down the middle on a par 5, have about 210-220 into the green. Usually a long iron shot and easy birdie, but it is right in the front edge of a steep divot and you have “no chance” to get the ball on the green (or even near it). You just have to wedge it out about 100 yards and then try to make birdie with your wedge and putter. Guy who is 6” beside you makes an easy birdie to gain a stroke on you.

 

Again, my initial post. I am ok with “rub of the green”, but extend that through the rules. I just do not understand why we are allowed (and the rules have relaxed on these items recently) to remove loose impediments in bunkers, in penalty areas when those are supposed to “penalties” and we can tap down imperfections on the green, but let’s plant a flag in the ground on the guy that hits one down the middle of the fairway and then gets penalized on “rub of the green”.

Removing loose impediments doesn’t involve picking up and placing your ball in a better position.  It involves moving something loose away that has zero impact on the ball position. (False equivalency)

 

(repeating) on a green the ball is meant to be rolled across it.  
 

[NosajNeelik]

7 hours ago, munichop said:

But the rules don’t require you to play the shot on the green surface. Guys can play the ball in the air on the greens. For years the rub of the green was the response to tapping down the green. Now it is allowed. The rules have been modified. Maybe that is why the randomness defense seems… random.

Odd defense 

[Pnwpingi210]

20 hours ago, NosajNeelik said:

You can putt a ball on the fairway 15 feet so it ends up right behind another ball? Wow you must be a good putter 

Especially through all those hugely impactful divots!!!!

Edited July 24 by Pnwpingi210

[nsxguy]

3 hours ago, Carson33 said:

Based on the number of comments and quotes you have posted in the few minutes, I am assuming you are not looking for an honest answer and only looking to get into an internet argument.

 

However, if you do per chance want an honest answer. I play golf 3-4 days a week and play in a tournament twice a month during the season. How many times in a divot during the year - once or twice per month. Usually no issue. In a divot with no chance to legitimately hit the green??? About once per year.

 

Example for you; hit a drive down the middle on a par 5, have about 210-220 into the green. Usually a long iron shot and easy birdie, but it is right in the front edge of a steep divot and you have “no chance” to get the ball on the green (or even near it). You just have to wedge it out about 100 yards and then try to make birdie with your wedge and putter. Guy who is 6” beside you makes an easy birdie to gain a stroke on you.

 

Again, my initial post. I am ok with “rub of the green”, but extend that through the rules. I just do not understand why we are allowed (and the rules have relaxed on these items recently) to remove loose impediments in bunkers, in penalty areas when those are supposed to “penalties” and we can tap down imperfections on the green, but let’s plant a flag in the ground on the guy that hits one down the middle of the fairway and then gets penalized on “rub of the green”.

 

Firstly, you know what Felix Unger said in court about when one assumes, yes ? 

 

 

 

Picture someone who hasn't read the board for a while and a thread with a lot of posts. 

 

While some people would ignore (most of ?) the new posts and skip to the end and post,,,,,,, whatever,,,,,, unlike those posters, I actually read all the older ones from the last time I saw the thread, to the end, and answer those I find interesting/wrong/challenging/whatever.

 

Sound reasonable ?

 

So, 3-4 rounds a week, once or twice a month, and an "impossible" one once a year, IN season. Sounds a bit unusual to me. I play twice a week year-round (with the occasional time off for good behavior LOL), so I'd guess we're close to even.

 

I can't remember the last time I was IN a divot, never mind the "impossible" one.

 

The ruling bodies made the game MUCH more forgiving AND fair 6+ years ago, much of it due to the cries of the population, removing loose impediments in PAs and bunkers being part of that, fixing anything on the green, etc.

 

It's also no coincidence that the rules were made much easier to remember due to these same changes.

 

NOBODY I know objected to any of it. 

 

The divot argument fires up multiple times a year with nobody on either side changing their mind. The chief sticking point is always "when is it a divot (hole)". The typical response ? "I know a divot when I see one".  

So, freshly made divot hole or almost invisible, you'll be having guys move the ball everywhere they can "get away with it".

 

It's funny you said you were OK with "rub of the green" and in your previous paragraph, showed exactly the opposite. 

 

I will however, especially in this day of coaches challenges in darn near every sport, I am a bit intrigued by the "1 divot per round free relief idea".

 

Hope this helps. Have a good one !!! 

[Carson33]

1 hour ago, nsxguy said:

 

Firstly, you know what Felix Unger said in court about when one assumes, yes ? 

 

 

 

Picture someone who hasn't read the board for a while and a thread with a lot of posts. 

 

While some people would ignore (most of ?) the new posts and skip to the end and post,,,,,,, whatever,,,,,, unlike those posters, I actually read all the older ones from the last time I saw the thread, to the end, and answer those I find interesting/wrong/challenging/whatever.

 

Sound reasonable ?

 

So, 3-4 rounds a week, once or twice a month, and an "impossible" one once a year, IN season. Sounds a bit unusual to me. I play twice a week year-round (with the occasional time off for good behavior LOL), so I'd guess we're close to even.

 

I can't remember the last time I was IN a divot, never mind the "impossible" one.

 

The ruling bodies made the game MUCH more forgiving AND fair 6+ years ago, much of it due to the cries of the population, removing loose impediments in PAs and bunkers being part of that, fixing anything on the green, etc.

 

It's also no coincidence that the rules were made much easier to remember due to these same changes.

 

NOBODY I know objected to any of it. 

 

The divot argument fires up multiple times a year with nobody on either side changing their mind. The chief sticking point is always "when is it a divot (hole)". The typical response ? "I know a divot when I see one".  

So, freshly made divot hole or almost invisible, you'll be having guys move the ball everywhere they can "get away with it".

 

It's funny you said you were OK with "rub of the green" and in your previous paragraph, showed exactly the opposite. 

 

I will however, especially in this day of coaches challenges in darn near every sport, I am a bit intrigued by the "1 divot per round free relief idea".

 

Hope this helps. Have a good one !!! 

Ok

[scores]

A lot of people are using HYBRIDs -- they are not as good out of divots as Irons. It's an advantage for a good Iron Player to play it down all around over four days. I remember Payne Stewart landing in one coming down the stretch  of a US Open and losing it. He never complained about it. Its a shot that you have to learn how to hit 

playing high level golf.

[smashdn]

On 7/24/2025 at 12:22 PM, nsxguy said:

 

How many times a year do you have "no chance" ?

 

Or even land in a divot to begin with ?  

 

I've asked that same thing before, maybe even in this thread.

 

I am not retired and play three, 18-hole rounds per week and one 9-hole scramble from time-change in spring to time-change in fall.  We sand our divots at my club.  I want to say I have been in exactly one ever at my club in two years and one ever before that.

 

Been on hardpan more often and have even played shots off a cart path twice.  Been in more footprints in bunkers than divots.

[Titleist99]

On 7/24/2025 at 3:22 PM, SnowbirdTom said:

In all honesty, this should probably been in the rules forum so it wouldn’t have been seen by 98% of the members. Many of us won’t venture there either due to the nit picking and  nano-dissection of a single word.

 

Wow! People ask me why I add the word *satire to my posts.

You summed it up. Nit-picking and nano-dissection on a golf board. 🤣

[Shilgy]

Half of you can just ignore this post because you won’t like it.  You’ll be able to figure out which half you’re in pretty quickly.

 

Is it Top Golf or is it mats on many ranges that has folks thinking that they’re entitled to a so called perfect lie all the time?  Even that phrasing, really, is wrong because the lie of the ball is never “bad”…or “good” it just is.  The idea of the game is to hit a ball to the best of your ability in the direction and length you need…. and on the next shot assess the lie and play the next shot that the lie dictates again to the best of your ability….rinse and repeat until the ball is holed.  Your scores might, just might, go up a bit if you play by the actual rules but your enjoyment of the game will go up as well.
 And no, you won’t become some miserable old cuss by actually following the rules.