Do higher compression balls curve more?

[Peterman6068]

Will something like a left dash Slice or hook more than a regular pro v1?  Are higher compression balls less forgiving on off-center hits?

[Pepperturbo]

Not in my experience but I am not a ball science guy, but a feel golfer. 

 

I play ProV1 and AVX but when it's really hot ProV1X.  IMO - What causes any of them to curve is my club face/AoA and how hard I hit the ball which is tied to spin.

 

IMO - Ball compression is tied to the users SS which may or may not compress the ball which creates max distance.  My 80+yr old FIL plays ProV1... he doesn't hit the ball very hard, so spin is negligible. 

[phizzy30]

First question, possibly.  Second question, no.  From what I know, left dash is very low spin.  Lower spin balls can hook or slice more than higher spin balls.  Back spin is actually needed to keep a ball on line.  I know it goes against logic, but excessive side spin can be caused by a mis hit and swing path or an extremely shut/open face at impact.  Stuart_G would be able to explain this better.  Literature states that higher compression balls are for higher ss and vice versa.  Mentions nothing about forgiveness on off center hits. 

[North Butte]

The desire to cure slicing with a magical, slice-reducing golf ball is one of the eternal constants of online golf discussions. 

[Peterman6068]

Rock Ishii: The Chrome Soft golf ball is an incredible golf ball for so many golfers because lower compression, low spin balls are going to be better for 99% of players. It helps to provide a straighter ball flight, better feel, and most importantly, more forgiveness.

The Fitting Room: Why is a lower compression golf ball more forgiving?

Rock Ishii: A low compression golf ball is better for more golfers because as we see when we test with players they do not hit the center of the face every time. A low compression ball helps to reduce the amount of ball speed lost on mis-hits

[Krt22]

26 minutes ago, Peterman6068 said:

Rock Ishii: The Chrome Soft golf ball is an incredible golf ball for so many golfers because lower compression, low spin balls are going to be better for 99% of players. It helps to provide a straighter ball flight, better feel, and most importantly, more forgiveness.

The Fitting Room: Why is a lower compression golf ball more forgiving?

Rock Ishii: A low compression golf ball is better for more golfers because as we see when we test with players they do not hit the center of the face every time. A low compression ball helps to reduce the amount of ball speed lost on mis-hits

Until I see hard data, I am very reluctant to believe this

[Duffer222]

I believe it because I see it regularly.

[Jeff58]

No and yes.

[bluedot]

The answer is a very simple "no".  There is no ball out there that is going to cause or prevent excessive curvature.  That's a swing issue, and not related to the ball being used to any significant degree.  If you make a swing that causes more tilt in the spin axis, then the ball curves more.  ANY ball, regardless of compression, cover, layers, cost, or marketing claims.  And individual swings with unusual AOA's, etc, can make this even moreso, but again, it ain't the golf ball causing it, and another ball won't fix it.

 

The physics of this have been posted a number of times here, but the gist of it is that the amount of rpm's necessary to cause a significant amount of curvature is huge, while the variations among balls in spin rates is much, much smaller than that, at least off the driver.

 

As to the question of higher vs lower compression, in general terms, a higher compression ball is going to be longer and a lower compression ball is going to be shorter, though there are individual exceptions.  Spin rates, though, are about the layers and the cover, not the compression.

 

And all of the stuff about lower compression balls being better suited somehow to lesser players and off-center strikes is just marketing.  There isn't any science to that.  If a given player prefers a particular lower compression ball, that's fine, of course, but all the stuff about not being able to compress the firmer ball, etc., is

[Myherobobhope]

16 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

First question, possibly.  Second question, no.  From what I know, left dash is very low spin.  Lower spin balls can hook or slice more than higher spin balls.  Back spin is actually needed to keep a ball on line.  I know it goes against logic, but excessive side spin can be caused by a mis hit and swing path or an extremely shut/open face at impact.  Stuart_G would be able to explain this better.  Literature states that higher compression balls are for higher ss and vice versa.  Mentions nothing about forgiveness on off center hits. 

Spin is spin, though... wouldn’t a low spin ball pick out less side spin as well? 
 

though I wonder if the factors that create backspin differ than those that create side spin... ie the spin from compression vs the spin generated by path... 

 

I’m not sure! I can definitely hook a high compression ball!

[North Butte]

11 minutes ago, bluedot said:

And all of the stuff about lower compression balls being better suited somehow to lesser players and off-center strikes is just marketing.  There isn't any science to that.  If a given player prefers a particular lower compression ball, that's fine, of course, but all the stuff about not being able to compress the firmer ball, etc., is

There's a reason it has been a universal marketing meme for a couple decades now. 

 

Many studies have shown that the vast majority of golfers prefer the sound and feel of a "soft" golf ball and some of them have a very strong preference for soft. So the marketing message is targeted at those who are predisposed to prefer a softer ball to a firmer one.

 

Those official-sounding pronouncements in the advertising serve to validate the golfer's preference for "soft" by telling him not only does it feel better, it helps his game. 

 

And heck yeah, something like a Wilson Duo sounds a little less clanky when you hit it out on the toe than a Tour B X. It sounds like clanky on center hits too but the marketing message about low-compression meaning "forgiveness" is just reinforced by the sound the ball makes. 

 

[bluedot]

41 minutes ago, Myherobobhope said:

Spin is spin, though... wouldn’t a low spin ball pick out less side spin as well? 
 

though I wonder if the factors that create backspin differ than those that create side spin... ie the spin from compression vs the spin generated by path... 

 

I’m not sure! I can definitely hook a high compression ball!

 

It's probably better if you don't think in terms of side spin or back spin; as you say, "spin is spin".  A golf ball has a spin axis, but just one; if the axis is vertical to the ground, the ball goes straight.  If the axis is tilted, the ball curves, and the more the axis is tilted, the more the ball curves.  (Forgive me if that's an oversimplification of the physics in play here.)  BUT the key to this is that the differences in the number of rpms among golf balls just isn't big enough to significantly change curvature in and of itself. 

 

When good players "work the ball" they do it with their setup and swing; same with lesser players who curve the ball when they don't want to, or curve it more than they want to.  Yes, it is marginally easier to curve a ball with higher spin rate, but off the driver, there just isn't much to that.  For the most part, everything is a Pinnacle off the tee now; distances and spin rates vary a lot less that most golfers understand and/or believe.

 

 

 

[bluedot]

35 minutes ago, North Butte said:

There's a reason it has been a universal marketing meme for a couple decades now. 

 

Many studies have shown that the vast majority of golfers prefer the sound and feel of a "soft" golf ball and some of them have a very strong preference for soft. So the marketing message is targeted at those who are predisposed to prefer a softer ball to a firmer one.

 

Those official-sounding pronouncements in the advertising serve to validate the golfer's preference for "soft" by telling him not only does it feel better, it helps his game. 

 

And heck yeah, something like a Wilson Duo sounds a little less clanky when you hit it out on the toe than a Tour B X. It sounds like clanky on center hits too but the marketing message about low-compression meaning "forgiveness" is just reinforced by the sound the ball makes. 

 

100% correct.  Sound is a BIG deal, which is why the club manufacturers spend zillions getting the sound right on their drivers, and now on the hollow head irons.  Has zero to do with performance.

 

In golf, soft SOUNDS good, and we call it "feel"; it isn't.  Spin is feel for good golfers, and again, that's about the layers and the cover, not the compression, much less the sound.

[MPAndreassi]

16 hours ago, Peterman6068 said:

Rock Ishii: The Chrome Soft golf ball is an incredible golf ball for so many golfers because lower compression, low spin balls are going to be better for 99% of players. It helps to provide a straighter ball flight, better feel, and most importantly, more forgiveness.

The Fitting Room: Why is a lower compression golf ball more forgiving?

Rock Ishii: A low compression golf ball is better for more golfers because as we see when we test with players they do not hit the center of the face every time. A low compression ball helps to reduce the amount of ball speed lost on mis-hits

He kind of skirts around the part of it being straighter, and on mentions ball speed in his follow up answer. So forgiveness in terms of not losing as much distance, possibly more forgiving with lower compression. 

[phizzy30]

22 minutes ago, bluedot said:

 

It's probably better if you don't think in terms of side spin or back spin; as you say, "spin is spin".  A golf ball has a spin axis, but just one; if the axis is vertical to the ground, the ball goes straight.  If the axis is tilted, the ball curves, and the more the axis is tilted, the more the ball curves.  (Forgive me if that's an oversimplification of the physics in play here.)  BUT the key to this is that the differences in the number of rpms among golf balls just isn't big enough to significantly change curvature in and of itself. 

 

When good players "work the ball" they do it with their setup and swing; same with lesser players who curve the ball when they don't want to, or curve it more than they want to.  Yes, it is marginally easier to curve a ball with higher spin rate, but off the driver, there just isn't much to that.  For the most part, everything is a Pinnacle off the tee now; distances and spin rates vary a lot less that most golfers understand and/or believe.

 

 

 

I agree with you on this.  I remember back when balata and wound balls were the it thing how much those suckers would spin.  Then you had the 2 piece solid core balls which would curve less but spin very little.  There were large variations in flight, feel, etc.  Nowadays while balls still feel different, I feel as though the spin and flight gap has closed quite a bit.  It just seems harder to "work" the ball the balls nowadays.  You know, I bought several boxes of Top Flight XL distance balls earlier this year because they were on sale.  2 boxes for 20.  I couldn't pass it up.  I'm currently doing an experiment where I'm doing a comparison out on the course with these and various different balls like my gamers the MTB-X and Chrome Soft X and LS.  Honestly, they are all long off the tee for me and distance wise pretty close to each other.  Where I notice the differences is launch and feel and to a lesser extent, spin.  The Top Flights launch the lowest and spin the least while the MTB-X launches the highest but is still low spin.  The Chrome Soft X and LS sit right in between.  Top Flights have the hardest time holding the greens and feel the firmest of the bunch but that's to be expected because they are "distance" balls.  I'm going to game all these balls until I run out but eventually will probably go with the Chrome Soft X LS.  It does everything I could possibly want out of a ball and then some.  I would like to hear your thoughts on this. 

Edited April 9, 2021 by phizzy30

[North Butte]

11 minutes ago, MPAndreassi said:

He kind of skirts around the part of it being straighter, and on mentions ball speed in his follow up answer. So forgiveness in terms of not losing as much distance, possibly more forgiving with lower compression. 

I'm semi-joking because I know it's not really true but I'm tempted to say yeah, the flip side of that is a low compression ball DOESN'T GAIN AS MUCH SPEED ON CENTER HITS.

 

Kind of like that thing with hot-faced irons. Do you want max ball speed and distance when you catch the sweet spot? Or do you want mediocre ball speed when you hit the sweet spot so there's not as much to lose when you mishit it?

[North Butte]

2 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

I agree with you on this.  I remember back when balata and wound balls were the it thing how much those suckers would spin.  Then you had the 2 piece solid core balls which would curve less but spin very little.  There were large variations in flight, feel, etc.  Nowadays while balls still feel different, I feel as though the spin and flight gap has closed quite a bit.  It just seems harder to "work" the ball the balls nowadays.  You know, I bought several boxes of Top Flight XL distance balls earlier this year because they were on sale.  2 boxes for 20.  I couldn't pass it up.  I'm currently doing an experiment where I'm doing a comparison out on the course with these and various different balls like my gamers the MTB-X and Chrome Soft X and LS.  Honestly, they are all long off the tee for me and distance wise pretty close to each other.  Where I notice the differences is launch and feel and to a lesser extent, spin.  The Top Flights launch the lowest and spin the least while the MTB-X launches the highest but is still low spin.  The Chrome Soft X and LS sit right in between.  Top Flights have the hardest time holding the greens and feel the firmest of the bunch but that's to be expected because they are "distance" balls.  I'm going to game all these balls until I run out but eventually will probably go with the Chrome Soft X LS.  It does everything I could possibly want out of a ball and then some.  I would like to hear your thoughts on this. 

If I still played the scruffy public course where I learned the game (nearly 30 years ago) I'd probably still be playing those 2-for-$20 distance balls. Few bunkers and no hazards in front of the greens, out of 18 greens you could run the ball up on all but three of them. 

 

Nowadays I have to elevate the ball over bunkers and/or water then get the shot to stop on super firm, contoured greens. That sort of thing is why every time I try switching away from "Tour" type balls I get frustrated quickly. In terms of just getting up and out there off every club in the bag even the cheap-o Surlyn balls are mighty darned good now. The only things worth paying for 1) stopping power, 2) ability to hit low spinners around the green and 3) workability off the irons.

 

Since I can't do 2) or 3) to save my life it's all about 1) for me!

[phizzy30]

7 minutes ago, North Butte said:

If I still played the scruffy public course where I learned the game (nearly 30 years ago) I'd probably still be playing those 2-for-$20 distance balls. Few bunkers and no hazards in front of the greens, out of 18 greens you could run the ball up on all but three of them. 

 

Nowadays I have to elevate the ball over bunkers and/or water then get the shot to stop on super firm, contoured greens. That sort of thing is why every time I try switching away from "Tour" type balls I get frustrated quickly. In terms of just getting up and out there off every club in the bag even the cheap-o Surlyn balls are mighty darned good now. The only things worth paying for 1) stopping power, 2) ability to hit low spinners around the green and 3) workability off the irons.

 

Since I can't do 2) or 3) to save my life it's all about 1) for me!

Yep, the distance balls now are miles better than the ones in the past.  Even more distance off the tee and maybe just a touch more spin than the distance balls of yesteryear.  They still feel like rocks though, haha.  You know you make a good point.  The local munis around here are the types of courses with very little OB, big greens, generous fairrways and not too many bunkers.  Parkland style courses where you can tee it up high and let it fly.  If the ball goes miles left or right, you can still find it on the next fairway over and still have a shot to the green.  Silly golf as I like to call it.  On the flip, the cc my father is a member at(El Cab CC) is one of the toughest courses here in LA county.  Tree lined on every hole, lots of narrow fairways, slick greens and tons of OB.  While it's not a very long course it's very challenging.  I find that I need to use my tour balls.  The greens just don't hold especially during the summer and distance isn't needed except on a couple long par 4's and the par 5's.  I find myself using my 3 metal and hybrid more so there than on most munis.  You made me realize that both types of balls have their uses on different types of courses.