Help Me Plan My Scotland II Trip For 2023

[foozledbaffy]

I would not miss North Berwick.  You would likely enjoy a quick walk around Musselburgh Old with the hickories as it is nearby and should only take an hour or so to play.  If you are going all the way to Carnoustie I would hate to not make the short trip up to Cruden Bay.  I know you said you have played it but for fun factor it is right up there with North Berwick.  If you have any questions you think I can answer I always love talking Scotland's links.  Cheers

[EmperorPenguin]

20 hours ago, foozledbaffy said:

I would not miss North Berwick.  You would likely enjoy a quick walk around Musselburgh Old with the hickories as it is nearby and should only take an hour or so to play.  If you are going all the way to Carnoustie I would hate to not make the short trip up to Cruden Bay.  I know you said you have played it but for fun factor it is right up there with North Berwick.  If you have any questions you think I can answer I always love talking Scotland's links.  Cheers

I do admit that Cruden Bay was a very fun course.  My regret for my last trip was that we did not play Royal Aberdeen.

 

I heard that Musselburgh is older than The Old Course, so perhaps it is the oldest course in the world?  I have seen YouTube videos of the course, and I am quite turned off of the fact that a horse track encircles it.

[kobe123]

I used Pioneer Golf, was pricey, but here is the list of courses we are playing: 

 

North Berwick

Murfield (2x)

New Course

Old Course

Carnoustie

Kinsbarns

Castle Stuart 

Royal Dornoch

Royal Troon Golf CLub

Trump Turnberry Ailsa Course

[hammergolf]

1 hour ago, EmperorPenguin said:

I do admit that Cruden Bay was a very fun course.  My regret for my last trip was that we did not play Royal Aberdeen.

 

I heard that Musselburgh is older than The Old Course, so perhaps it is the oldest course in the world?  I have seen YouTube videos of the course, and I am quite turned off of the fact that a horse track encircles it.

Royal Aberdeen may be the most overlooked/underrated course in Scotland…

[hammergolf]

1 hour ago, kobe123 said:

I used Pioneer Golf, was pricey, but here is the list of courses we are playing: 

 

North Berwick

Murfield (2x)

New Course

Old Course

Carnoustie

Kinsbarns

Castle Stuart 

Royal Dornoch

Royal Troon Golf CLub

Trump Turnberry Ailsa Course

Just curious, but what was the price for The Old Course if you don’t mind me asking?

[scott_Donald]

6 hours ago, hammergolf said:

Royal Aberdeen may be the most overlooked/underrated course in Scotland…

 

yet we still meet the quota for visitors each year!

 

This year we were way over but that was with folk carrying over from the covid years!

Edited November 15, 2022 by scott_Donald

[kobe123]

On 11/15/2022 at 10:48 AM, hammergolf said:

Just curious, but what was the price for The Old Course if you don’t mind me asking?

I think they charged an extra 1,000 - 1,200. 

[El Gringo]

I think of the Aberdeen area as a separate trip. Royal Aberdeen, Cruden Bay 27 and Trump Aberdeen as the main draw and Stonehaven, Newburgh, Fraserburgh and Peterhead as a supporting cast. 

[njlam]

4 hours ago, El Gringo said:

I think of the Aberdeen area as a separate trip. Royal Aberdeen, Cruden Bay 27 and Trump Aberdeen as the main draw and Stonehaven, Newburgh, Fraserburgh and Peterhead as a supporting cast. 

I agree.

 

Similarly, Royal Dornoch and its surrounding courses are a separate trip. Next year we are playing Turnberry/Prestwick/Troon/NB/Muirfield/TOC/Carnoustie and couldn't logistically get Royal Dornoch or the Aberdeen area to work....

 

Next trip could combine the Dornoch/Aberdeen areas....could this work?

[hammergolf]

5 hours ago, El Gringo said:

I think of the Aberdeen area as a separate trip. Royal Aberdeen, Cruden Bay 27 and Trump Aberdeen as the main draw and Stonehaven, Newburgh, Fraserburgh and Peterhead as a supporting cast. 

Murcar?

[El Gringo]

47 minutes ago, hammergolf said:

Murcar?

Sure. The point is ya don't have to waste time in a car driving past good courses. 

[hammergolf]

9 minutes ago, El Gringo said:

Sure. The point is ya don't have to waste time in a car driving past good courses. 

Exactly. I think that’s one of the biggest mistakes many make when going abroad. 

[scott_Donald]

3 hours ago, njlam said:

I agree.

 

Similarly, Royal Dornoch and its surrounding courses are a separate trip. Next year we are playing Turnberry/Prestwick/Troon/NB/Muirfield/TOC/Carnoustie and couldn't logistically get Royal Dornoch or the Aberdeen area to work....

 

Next trip could combine the Dornoch/Aberdeen areas....could this work?

 

Yes, just work your way from Aberdeen to Dornoch! round the coast.

 

2 hours ago, hammergolf said:

Murcar?

 

YuK!

 

1 hour ago, hammergolf said:

Exactly. I think that’s one of the biggest mistakes many make when going abroad. 

 

Agreed, I am in Houston and getting a fresh set of Artisan wedges, I was going to drive up but can't get the 8 hours of driving to get them so just getting them posted down!

[EmperorPenguin]

10 hours ago, El Gringo said:

Sure. The point is ya don't have to waste time in a car driving past good courses. 

Yes, but for an imperial trip it is necessary to play only top-rated golf courses and not near-top-rated courses.  Stonehaven, Newburgh, Fraserburgh and Peterhead and this Murcar course are examples of courses I have never heard of, along with other courses like Crail, Tain, Leven & Lundin Links.  I am sure they are great courses to play if you live there, but as a visitor I want the best available to me.  I will only consider the secondary courses only if I have already played all the best ones.

[El Gringo]

5 hours ago, EmperorPenguin said:

Yes, but for an imperial trip it is necessary to play only top-rated golf courses and not near-top-rated courses.  Stonehaven, Newburgh, Fraserburgh and Peterhead and this Murcar course are examples of courses I have never heard of, along with other courses like Crail, Tain, Leven & Lundin Links.  I am sure they are great courses to play if you live there, but as a visitor I want the best available to me.  I will only consider the secondary courses only if I have already played all the best ones.

Of course it's your choice. However, playing the highest ranked courses doesn't necessarily mean you are playing the best or playing courses you may enjoy the most. Tons of courses may not be great, but are highly appealing. Of the courses you listed above Fraserburgh and Crail are examples of lovely courses with some outstanding holes. I would say in their own way they are premium courses that are well known and respected despite a 2nd tier status compared to championship and the handful of other famous/very highly ranked Scottish courses. Scotland has an embarrassing number of cool courses if one is willing to look past the top 30 or whatever rankings. Gullane 3 is one of my favourite Scottish courses and it barely makes the top 100! 

Edited November 18, 2022 by El Gringo

[Chanceman]

8 hours ago, EmperorPenguin said:

Yes, but for an imperial trip it is necessary to play only top-rated golf courses and not near-top-rated courses.  Stonehaven, Newburgh, Fraserburgh and Peterhead and this Murcar course are examples of courses I have never heard of, along with other courses like Crail, Tain, Leven & Lundin Links.  I am sure they are great courses to play if you live there, but as a visitor I want the best available to me.  I will only consider the secondary courses only if I have already played all the best ones.

If you have never heard of any of those courses I think you need to read and listen a bit more to what’s being said both here and in other forums.

[stanford88]

I appreciate both view points. Both answers are good. There are more courses than the popular ones but for a first trip, people want to play the great ones. 

[ALTSean]

8 hours ago, EmperorPenguin said:

Yes, but for an imperial trip it is necessary to play only top-rated golf courses and not near-top-rated courses.  Stonehaven, Newburgh, Fraserburgh and Peterhead and this Murcar course are examples of courses I have never heard of, along with other courses like Crail, Tain, Leven & Lundin Links.  I am sure they are great courses to play if you live there, but as a visitor I want the best available to me.  I will only consider the secondary courses only if I have already played all the best ones.

 

Ever heard of some guy named Old Tom Morris?  

 

He laid out the links at Crail, Leven, and Lundin.  

 

[EmperorPenguin]

22 minutes ago, ALTSean said:

 

Ever heard of some guy named Old Tom Morris?  

 

He laid out the links at Crail, Leven, and Lundin.  

 

Ever heard of some guy named Alister MacKenzie?

 

He laid out Sharp Park, Haggin Oaks, both of which are dog tracks.

[njlam]

13 hours ago, EmperorPenguin said:

Yes, but for an imperial trip it is necessary to play only top-rated golf courses and not near-top-rated courses.  Stonehaven, Newburgh, Fraserburgh and Peterhead and this Murcar course are examples of courses I have never heard of, along with other courses like Crail, Tain, Leven & Lundin Links.  I am sure they are great courses to play if you live there, but as a visitor I want the best available to me.  I will only consider the secondary courses only if I have already played all the best ones.

I think if you only date supermodels, you may miss meeting the love of your life.

 

Perhaps that is extreme, but some context. On our trip to Ireland last summer, we played arguably the best courses in the south (Ballybunion/Waterville/Lahinch) as well as the top course in the north (RCD/RP/Portstewart). To bridge the south/north divide, one of the guys on the trip suggested County Sligo, which is not on anyone's top courses in Ireland list. It was a fantastic course and rivaled any of the courses we played in southern Ireland. Because they were not a golfer's household name, they tried extra hard to show us how proud they were of their course and did a great job. It is now on the list of courses I recommend to anyone visiting Scotland.

 

Over COVID, I was fortunate to play a lot of the top course in the US, including Bethpage Black and Pine Valley. While undoubtably great courses/experiences, I don't know if I would enjoy playing them everyday. I feel the same way about Pacific Dunes.

I guess what I am trying to say is, is golf trip a collection of prestigious tee times, or experiences of fun but not excessively challenging golf course? For me, it is a combination of both.

 

And while I would play BPB, PV or PD whenever the opportunity is presented, I would not play them to the exclusion of other less well-known courses that are fun to play.

BTW, what is an imperial trip?

Edited November 18, 2022 by njlam

[EmperorPenguin]

I must add here that whichever course I select, it must have an established caddie program.  Because we will be playing for nine consecutive days, the rounds should be the least fatiguing.  Is there a golf course in the top 20 in Scotland that does not have a caddie program?

[EmperorPenguin]

5 minutes ago, njlam said:

BTW, what is an imperial trip?

One suitable for the Emperor, haha.

[njlam]

Not sure about Scotland but in Ireland last summer, all the top course were not immune to the global human resources shortage. We had to double bag caddies at almost all the courses.

[ALTSean]

2 hours ago, EmperorPenguin said:

Ever heard of some guy named Alister MacKenzie?

 

He laid out Sharp Park, Haggin Oaks, both of which are dog tracks.

 

Since you seem to be a ratings guy, Crail, Leven, and Lundin are all Top 50-75 courses in Scotland.  

 

Enjoy playing the big names and collecting your bag tags, but don't dismiss courses just because you have never heard of them.  

[EmperorPenguin]

I was curious about the secondary course Crail Balcomie.  The video is quite impressive.

 

 

It looks great!  However, is it as good as, say Turnberry Ailsa?  Also, does it have a caddie program?

[ALTSean]

2 minutes ago, EmperorPenguin said:

I was curious about the secondary course Crail Balcomie.  The video is quite impressive.

 

 

It looks great!  However, is it as good as, say Turnberry Ailsa?  Also, does it have a caddie program?

 

Yes, they have caddies at Crail:

 

https://crailgolfingsociety.co.uk/caddies

 

Balcomie would be considered the "first" course as it's the one laid out by Old Tom Morris.

 

Craighead is the newer course laid out by Gil Hanse.  

 

We're playing 36 there on our trip in 2023.

[El Gringo]

5 hours ago, EmperorPenguin said:

I was curious about the secondary course Crail Balcomie.  The video is quite impressive.

 

 

It looks great!  However, is it as good as, say Turnberry Ailsa?  Also, does it have a caddie program?

No, Crail is not in the league of Trump Turnberry in terms of quality. Otherwise it would be ranked as one of the best courses in the world. I think the point is seeking out solely the very best courses as proclaimed by various panels isn't necessarily the best way to go about planning a trip. Even within a top 30 ranking of Scotland there is a broad range of courses, some which may appeal and others which may not. I admit to a bias toward unusual holes, the walk which makes sense, width to enjoy the game rather than search for balls in knee high rough, a bit away from tourist buses, not overly difficult and interesting greens. To each is own, but there is no way I would rely solely on rankings. You have to remember that rankings are just collective opinions of guys who may or may not know much about the area in question. You are better off getting the Doak Confidential Guide as a starter and Finegan's trilogy which includes Blasted Heaths and Blessed Greens, Allen's Play The Best Courses in Scotland, Steel's Classic Golf Links of GB&I etc. If you are interested in playing golf in Scotland you will enjoy these books. 

[Chanceman]

It’s a simple matter of while at royal birkdale play hillside, while at royal St. George’s play deal, while at royal county down play Ardglass, while at Royal Dornoch play Brora, while at Royal Aberdeen play Murcar and so on. There’s always an attractive little sidekick across the street and you might get smitten. In the end to El Gringo’s point you have select courses based on something. Whether ratings or books or this forum. It’s a good topic actually, eg in the US it would be Whistling Straits / The Bull, Pebble Beach/Pacific Grove, Sand Hills/Wild Horse, others?

[scott_Donald]

12 minutes ago, Chanceman said:

It’s a simple matter of while at royal birkdale play hillside, while at royal St. George’s play deal, while at royal county down play Ardglass, while at Royal Dornoch play Brora, while at Royal Aberdeen play Murcar and so on. There’s always an attractive little sidekick across the street and you might get smitten. In the end to El Gringo’s point you have select courses based on something. Whether ratings or books or this forum. It’s a good topic actually, eg in the US it would be Whistling Straits / The Bull, Pebble Beach/Pacific Grove, Sand Hills/Wild Horse, others?

 

I only know one person who loves Murcar! Its funny the cross course competition had to be scrapped this year as hardly any members from RAGC wanted to play Murcar. 

[Chanceman]

Just as an example. It was the closest to RA  I could think of and was mentioned in the discussion as “this murcar place” .