Lawsonia - I Don't Get the Love

[games]

I'm a 'Sconnie native, and I think the golf in my home state is the best in the country.  Not just at the high-end courses, but also the Munis and small public courses.  But, there is one course I just never understood the love for:  Lawsonia Links.

 

It's not a goat track.  I've played it three or four times, and it's good.  Nice layout, nicely conditioned.  And, yes, I know the President of the USGA said it has the best green complexes in the country.  But, I really don't understand the overt love for it.  For the price, I'd much rather play Washington County, the Oaks, Castle Rock at Northern Bay (one of the more underrated courses in Wisco), or several northwoods courses like Northwoods (Rhinelander), Timber Ridge (Minocqua), St. Germain, or Eagle River.  Or go up the UP to play Timber Stone or Graywalls or the casino courses.

 

What am I missing? (Flame suit on...)

[ldchristopher]

I’m gonna jump in before Zer0 starts his Lawsonia shilling. I get why people, especially old guys and people who aren’t very good, love Lawsonia. It has some history and was done by a big-time architect back in the day, but it’s easy. That’s THE formula for Boomer love. People who have a penchant for hitting ground balls and hosel rockets can go to Lawsonia, hit their usual worm burner iron shots, score, and say they were “playing the ground game.” Sure pal. But I agree, the love is very overblown. It has some very nice holes but it also has some underwhelming holes, the sand is atrocious and filled with rocks, and pace of play is often an issue because people - mostly bros with cart speakers - who have no business on a golf course play there because of the course’s name recognition. Okay, let me have it as well. 

[shortstop20]

These comments are discouraging, I was eyeing Lawsonia this year as I've never made it there on my other Wisconsin golf trips which have mostly been around the Rhinelander area(love Northwoods GC), Dells area and the Lake Geneva area.

 

I'll very likely still play it but my expectations will be lower I guess. 🙂

 

[games]

58 minutes ago, shortstop20 said:

These comments are discouraging, I was eyeing Lawsonia this year as I've never made it there on my other Wisconsin golf trips which have mostly been around the Rhinelander area(love Northwoods GC), Dells area and the Lake Geneva area.

 

I'll very likely still play it but my expectations will be lower I guess. 🙂

 

 

It's one of those courses you should play if you're already headed to the Dells or Sand Valley.  But, even on a trip to Sand Valley, I would easily play either course at Lake Arrowhead (a mile from SV and both nice in their own right) before traveling to play Lawsonia.  A promo piece from Sand Valley even encourages visitors to play Lake Arrowhead, too!  

 

I think this is just as much an affirmation of the abundance of quality golf available in Wisconsin, and not just questioning the Lawsonia mystique.

[ode1]

49 minutes ago, shortstop20 said:

These comments are discouraging, I was eyeing Lawsonia this year as I've never made it there on my other Wisconsin golf trips which have mostly been around the Rhinelander area(love Northwoods GC), Dells area and the Lake Geneva area.

 

I'll very likely still play it but my expectations will be lower I guess. 🙂

 

You have to experience it for yourself, so take the above comments with a grain of salt (one is at least constructive and meant to facilitate discussion, the other mostly ignorant).  It took me some time to figure out how to play it, I mean at least a half dozen to a dozen times before I could really appreciated all it has to offer.  It's unlike any other course I've played.  The front is magnificent, with the back sleepy good with a 3-5-3-5-3-4-4-4-5 layout.  If you want resort golf, pristine conditions, a majestic clubhouse, associates with "uniforms", great facilities/range,  and other amenities/hotel, etc....you might  be disappointed.  First tee to 18th green, I think you'll love it!  Try to have an open mind and see for yourself.  As I said earlier, it took some time and it grew on me, and now I love it.

[ode1]

2 hours ago, games said:

  For the price, I'd much rather play Washington County, the Oaks, Castle Rock at Northern Bay (one of the more underrated courses in Wisco), or several northwoods courses like Northwoods (Rhinelander), Timber Ridge (Minocqua), St. Germain, or Eagle River.  Or go up the UP to play Timber Stone or Graywalls or the casino courses.

I love Wash. Co. And Northern Bay, The Oaks I like but not in the same league IMO.  Too many holes on top of one another.

 

The other Northern Wisco courses I have not experienced but I'd like to in the coming years, as well as Greywalls and Timberstone.  Sweetgrass is a great course and if one has time for a second round, should give Sage Run a try, as it is quite different (than Sweetgrass) and ruggedly beautiful.

[shortstop20]

32 minutes ago, ode said:

You have to experience it for yourself, so take the above comments with a grain of salt (one is at least constructive and meant to facilitate discussion, the other mostly ignorant).  It took me some time to figure out how to play it, I mean at least a half dozen to a dozen times before I could really appreciated all it has to offer.  It's unlike any other course I've played.  The front is magnificent, with the back sleepy good with a 3-5-3-5-3-4-4-4-5 layout.  If you want resort golf, pristine conditions, a majestic clubhouse, associates with "uniforms", great facilities/range,  and other amenities/hotel, etc....you might  be disappointed.  First tee to 18th green, I think you'll love it!  Try to have an open mind and see for yourself.  As I said earlier, it took some time and it grew on me, and now I love it.

 

Yeah, I'm not concerned about the other stuff, it's all about the golf for me. 

[games]

20 minutes ago, ode said:

Sweetgrass is a great course and if one has time for a second round, should give Sage Run a try, as it is quite different (than Sweetgrass) and ruggedly beautiful.

 

I definitely need to get there.  Wish I had the time.  Are they still doing the stay-and-play package where you can play all five great UP courses?  Or, are they promoting their two courses on-premise?

[shortstop20]

41 minutes ago, games said:

 

It's one of those courses you should play if you're already headed to the Dells or Sand Valley.  But, even on a trip to Sand Valley, I would easily play either course at Lake Arrowhead (a mile from SV and both nice in their own right) before traveling to play Lawsonia.  A promo piece from Sand Valley even encourages visitors to play Lake Arrowhead, too!  

 

I think this is just as much an affirmation of the abundance of quality golf available in Wisconsin, and not just questioning the Lawsonia mystique.

Sand Valley is very nice I'm sure and I would like to play it but the fact that I can get a discounted rate at the Prairie Club in Nebraska and it's closer for me makes it hard to justify playing Sand Valley. 

 

My Wisconsin golf trips usually consist of muni and other resort/casino courses. 

Edited April 25, 2021 by shortstop20

[games]

7 minutes ago, shortstop20 said:

 

Yeah, I'm not concerned about the other stuff, it's all about the golf for me. 

 

Lawsonia is renovating the Woodlands course, which at one time was considered just slightly below the level of the Links course.  If they bring the Woodlands back to that level, I think that would be a winner.  Also, there are other good courses in the area, including Mascoutin and Tuscumbia.

 

Just adding:  Just saw your comment on courses you tend to play.  I would say the renovation of the Woodlands course and the presence of the other courses, would make a trip worthwhile for you.  Links will be the best, but a renovated Woodlands would be great, and Tuscumbia and Mascoutin would round out a really pleasant few days.

Edited April 25, 2021 by games

[shortstop20]

6 minutes ago, games said:

 

Lawsonia is renovating the Woodlands course, which at one time was considered just slightly below the level of the Links course.  If they bring the Woodlands back to that level, I think that would be a winner.  Also, there are other good courses in the area, including Mascoutin and Tuscumbia.

 

Just adding:  Just saw your comment on courses you tend to play.  I would say the renovation of the Woodlands course and the presence of the other courses, would make a trip worthwhile for you.  Links will be the best, but a renovated Woodlands would be great, and Tuscumbia and Mascoutin would round out a really pleasant few days.

I had not heard of Tuscumbia and Mascoutin so I have added them to my list, thanks. 

I was just reading the other day about the Woodlands at Lawsonia, it is nice that they have two courses there. Would be a good 36 hole day. 

[ode1]

17 hours ago, games said:

 

I definitely need to get there.  Wish I had the time.  Are they still doing the stay-and-play package where you can play all five great UP courses?  Or, are they promoting their two courses on-premise?

Yes.....my buddy will be doing it in July.....sounds like a great deal too!

Edited April 26, 2021 by ode1

[wobgon]

3 hours ago, ldchristopher said:

I’m gonna jump in before Zer0 starts his Lawsonia shilling. I get why people, especially old guys and people who aren’t very good, love Lawsonia. It has some history and was done by a big-time architect back in the day, but it’s easy. That’s THE formula for Boomer love. People who have a penchant for hitting ground balls and hosel rockets can go to Lawsonia, hit their usual worm burner iron shots, score, and say they were “playing the ground game.” Sure pal. But I agree, the love is very overblown. It has some very nice holes but it also has some underwhelming holes, the sand is atrocious and filled with rocks, and pace of play is often an issue because people - mostly bros with cart speakers - who have no business on a golf course play there because of the course’s name recognition. Okay, let me have it as well. 

With a 1.9 h-cap you would not fair very well against a lot of these so called old guys.

[StudentGolfer4]

2 hours ago, ode said:

I love Wash. Co. And Northern Bay, The Oaks I like but not in the same league IMO.  Too many holes on top of one another.

 

The other Northern Wisco courses I have not experienced but I'd like to in the coming years, as well as Greywalls and Timberstone.  Sweetgrass is a great course and if one has time for a second round, should give Sage Run a try, as it is quite different (than Sweetgrass) and ruggedly beautiful.

I have played the 3 north woods courses listed and they are all fine. If you’re in the area they’re worth a play. However, I would not advise someone go out of there way, say 45 minutes or more, to do so. 
 

I believe a lot of people who don’t like Lawsonia don’t appreciate/prefer that type of course. I think the same could be said for Arcadia South Course, or say the Ross course at French lick. Some will say traditional and strategic while others will say boring and dull. 

[LeftyBobby]

19 hours ago, games said:

I'm a 'Sconnie native, and I think the golf in my home state is the best in the country.  Not just at the high-end courses, but also the Munis and small public courses.  But, there is one course I just never understood the love for:  Lawsonia Links.

 

It's not a goat track.  I've played it three or four times, and it's good.  Nice layout, nicely conditioned.  And, yes, I know the President of the USGA said it has the best green complexes in the country.  But, I really don't understand the overt love for it.  For the price, I'd much rather play Washington County, the Oaks, Castle Rock at Northern Bay (one of the more underrated courses in Wisco), or several northwoods courses like Northwoods (Rhinelander), Timber Ridge (Minocqua), St. Germain, or Eagle River.  Or go up the UP to play Timber Stone or Graywalls or the casino courses.

 

What am I missing? (Flame suit on...)

 

No flame, everyone has their opinion, and the course is not for everyone, but I absolutely love the course and here's why:

 

The golf course can play totally different day to day, depending on the wind (as with most links golf)

The course is in excellent condition (at least when I've played it)

The greens! (my favorite part). I've realized the last few years I really enjoy courses where a courses' defense is the greens. When I played in the State Am there a few years ago, you could go low, but you had to have left yourself in the correct spots, otherwise you were looking at a 3 putt. I remember...I averaged 36.5 putts through all 4 rounds but still finished decent because you can still make a lot of birdies. West Bend CC (same designer) is the same way. Although not a links course, it has firm, fast, undulated greens which is the courses' defense to low scores. 

I understand the 'some underwhelming holes' argument that another poster pointed out, but links golf isn't supposed to have the "wow" factor that others courses have. The approach shots and putting is where the course really comes to life. 

 

 

[games]

@LeftyBobby I played a large annual event there (Radford Cup?) and started on the boxcar par3 with the pin five paces off the far back on a small hump.  I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a tougher placement.

 

The greens were nice, and they facilitate the placements you and I both saw.  Maybe, to your point, I’m visually underwhelmed.  To that end, I’ve heard better players criticize Whistling Straits for being visually stunning but just a so-so layout.

[ode1]

4 hours ago, LeftyBobby said:

, but you had to have left yourself in the correct spots, otherwise you were looking at a 3 putt

Which is in part about positioning off the tee.  Although I do not find it overly hard off the tee, you can be in the fairway and be out of position.  That may also depend on pin position as well given how big the greens are.  I'm trying to hug the right side of the fwy on #1 and #2....in fact I'd rather be in the right rough than the left side of the fwy, as they both tend to run out and end up in the rough.  It's not death, but it makes for a much more difficult and longer approach.  Wide fairways does not always equate to absence of strategy!  I also enjoy the angles and cross bunkering/mounds that block/semi block the golfers view from what's ahead.  That feature really threw me off as a rookie and still is a factor all these years later.  I know where to hit it, but not being able see the landing area leaves some doubt.  Could go on and on!

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by ode1

[Phreddy]

I get both sides.  #'s 1-4 really don't do much for me.  But, 5-9 may be one of the best consecutive stretches of golf holes in the state.  The back 9 is certainly "linksy" but with very little that stands out as a memory hole.  The range is awful, the staff is wonderful.  The conditioning is spotty.  The greens are great.  Worth playing?  Absolutely.  Iconic?  Meh.

[ode1]

5 hours ago, Phreddy said:

5-9 may be one of the best consecutive stretches of golf holes in the state. 

👍

[txeconomist]

I played it on a trip to WI along with Erin Hills, Kohler and SV / Mammoth and while I enjoyed it, it was not worth some special trip or worth going out of your way to play IMO... interesting course and good deal it definitely is.

[LeftyBobby]

On 4/26/2021 at 11:12 AM, Phreddy said:

But, 5-9 may be one of the best consecutive stretches of golf holes in the state. 

You know, I never really thought about it like that, but you're right. That's a good stretch of holes. I might even expand that to 5-11. 

[Phreddy]

3 hours ago, LeftyBobby said:

You know, I never really thought about it like that, but you're right. That's a good stretch of holes. I might even expand that to 5-11. 

That's fair.  Ten is the par 3 correct?  That is a tough but very very good par 3.

[LeftyBobby]

32 minutes ago, Phreddy said:

That's fair.  Ten is the par 3 correct?  That is a tough but very very good par 3.

Correct. Green is really undulated with fall-offs on every side. And 11 is a par 5 with a undulated fairway that generally slopes hard from left to right. 2nd (or 3rd) shots are difficult because of that. And it's a blind 2nd/3rd shot. 

[PuttCurseRepeat]

The aspects of Lawsonia Links which stand out to me and make it one of my favorite courses are:

 

Scale - Despite the underwhelming nature of the facility upon arrival, once you hit the first tee shot of the day you realize this is not some humble, run-of-the-mill rural course. The greens are big, the hazards are deep and the land heaves and falls in ways that can make the player feel surprisingly small. There are subtle cues, like looking back from the 5th tee at the surrounding countryside, giving a good idea of the prominence of the land you are playing on. If one is lucky enough to be on the back nine during the golden hour, they will be treated to one of the best views in the game - an expansive view of half the course, glowing nearly as brilliant as I imagine it would if I were playing at the gates of Heaven.

 

Fast & Firm - There are only a handful of Midwestern courses, if that, which provide the firm and fast conditions of Lawsonia Links. The fairways are wide, but booming, uncontrolled tee balls can easily bound through the generous fairways and into the rough, or even worse - into the tall fescue. The nearly rock hard greens are devoid of ball marks and cannot be approached over aggressively. I've had the silent joy of seeing playing partners cry that their "perfect" shots to a back pin bounded off the back of the green and are now faced with recoveries where they can only spy the top of the flagstick from the bottom of a six-foot bunker.

 

The Greens - The former head of the USGA has often been cited as saying Lawsonia has some of the best greens in the country. I'm going to guess that he's seen a few more of them than I have, so I'm just going to agree with him. The big greens are always in great shape and run true. Their size, slope and internal contours are epic.

 

The Layout - Langford and Moreau gracefully draped the routing over a great piece of land then made no secret of using the hand of man to construct hazards to further confound the golfer. I like the obvious nature of the steep-faced bunkers and pushed-up greens in that they serve strategic purpose and fit the scale of the surrounds.

 

Value - With rack rates between $85-$70 - with cart - and special rates and discounts available, I think you get a great golfing experience for the money.

 

Lawsonia Links isn't without its criticisms (lousy driving range, too much commotion by the first tee, at times, inconsistent bunker maintenance) and quirks (all straight or dogleg right holes - no dogleg left), but I find it easy to look past them, due mostly to what I wrote above.

 

On 4/25/2021 at 2:14 PM, shortstop20 said:

 

Yeah, I'm not concerned about the other stuff, it's all about the golf for me. 

 

Then you will likely adore Lawsonia Links.

 

On 4/26/2021 at 11:12 AM, Phreddy said:

I get both sides.  #'s 1-4 really don't do much for me.  But, 5-9 may be one of the best consecutive stretches of golf holes in the state.  The back 9 is certainly "linksy" but with very little that stands out as a memory hole.  The range is awful, the staff is wonderful.  The conditioning is spotty.  The greens are great.  Worth playing?  Absolutely.  Iconic?  Meh.

 

Holes 1, 2 and 4 are excellent. #3 is nothing special, though not a bad hole either. As far as no standouts on the back nine goes, I have to disagree and present #13 as an example of a par 5 as memorable as any I have played (behind nos. 3 and 11 at Arcadia Bluffs).

 

15 hours ago, txeconomist said:

I played it on a trip to WI along with Erin Hills, Kohler and SV / Mammoth and while I enjoyed it, it was not worth some special trip or worth going out of your way to play IMO... interesting course and good deal it definitely is.

 

But then again, what courses by themselves are worth a special trip? I think if you are playing anywhere in central or south-east Wisconsin, Lawsonia Links is definitely worth the effort and I would go as far as calling it a "must play". I'm heading up to SV in the middle of May and our group wants very much to play LL as well - unfortunately they are punching the greens on the day we planned to play there. 😕

Edited April 30, 2021 by PuttCurseRepeat

[Gdane]

I dont get the love b/c I planned my 2020 Golf Trip around Lawsonia, and in the middle of a summer of almost no rain, this is the view I had that day... 

[mci711]

Lawsonia is good. It is also the most overrated course in the country. It is a fun course, nice layout, good shape etc. The problem is the hyperbole around it. People start saying it is the best course in wisconsin/midwest/US (if you look you'll find someone saying that on wrx), when it just isn't. If I had 10 rounds to split between Sand Valley, Mammoth Dunes and Lawsonia Links I don't think I play 1 of those there. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by mci711

[Phreddy]

1 hour ago, mci711 said:

Lawsonia is good. It is also the most overrated course in the country. It is a fun course, nice layout, good shape etc. The problem is the hyperbole around it. People start saying it is the best course in wisconsin/midwest/US (if you look you'll find someone saying that on wrx), when it just isn't. If I had 10 rounds to split between Sand Valley, Mammoth Dunes and Lawsonia Links I don't think I play 1 of those there. 

And different opinions make the world go round!

 

My 10 would be 5 at SV

3 at Mammoth 

2 at LL.

 

Go figure.  And by hook or crook I would get in a round on Lido when it is done.

[mci711]

34 minutes ago, Phreddy said:

And different opinions make the world go round!

 

My 10 would be 5 at SV

3 at Mammoth 

2 at LL.

 

Go figure.  And by hook or crook I would get in a round on Lido when it is done.

Well we don't disagree all that much. We'd both play the SV courses over LL. I think the point is people here claim it is better than those, whistling straits, Erin Hills etc. 

[PuttCurseRepeat]

It is hard go against two courses which have hosted major championships, but mid to high handicaps may have more fun and prefer Lawsonia Links to Erin Hills and Whistling Straights. Both courses at Sand Valley are excellent and Mammoth Dunes may be the most fun course I have played, but I prefer LL over Sand Valley, slightly. 

 

If value is taken into consideration as criteria in the rankings, then it is quite easy to see why LL ranks so highly against other midwestern powerhouse courses.

[StudentGolfer4]

I don’t think it’s a knock on lawsonia saying you would prefer to play the courses at Sand Valley, Koehler, or Erin Hills. 
 

I’m guessing we can all think of examples but usually most people would prefer to play courses that are $300ish and have hosted major championships compared to a local track that’s 80 bucks or so. Not to mention that most of those courses are walking only. Lawsonia can be a top 100 course and still lag well behind some others in the area.
 

I think by even talking about Lawsonia in the same sentence as those other courses show you how good it really is. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by StudentGolfer4