Golf's Retail Problem - A Microcosm

[regiwstruk]

True story. Went to PGASS yesterday to get a Ping G425 Max. Before going, as it's a hike, I checked their site for inventory with the X flex shaft I wanted - available. I get there and it's not on the rack. I ask if it's in the back - "we don't have it in the back". Okay...no big deal, s*** happens - no need to point out something they won't be able to control. So I walk around a bit and find the exact shaft I was looking for...but it's in a G410 Plus 12deg head. I'm thinking that has to be an error because no one who needs 12deg would want an X, should be an easy flip.

 

I ask if they'll flip the shaft and the head so I can buy the g425 with the shaft I came in for (that they showed in stock). "We cannot do that". So obviously, it's getting more comical by the second but here's the real kicker...the guy said, "If we take the X out of the 12deg g410 plus, we'll never be able to sell it." My nature isn't to be the a-hole so I just laughed and tried to end with a joke that the 12deg with an X on last year's model will either still be on the rack in 2025 or in a heap somewhere. To his credit, the dude chuckled.

 

Rather than move a $500 driver and take the noodle that was in it and put it in a more appropriate head for that loft, increasing chances to sell BOTH clubs, they let me walk.

 

In about two hours shopping online, I found a brand new g425 MAX head and an *upgraded* shaft of the one that was on the rack (Tensei AV Raw vs. CK) and I will pay exactly $20 more than I would have in the store itself, shipped to my door. Both of these items were ordered online from non-retail.

 

If that doesn't say it all, what will? 

[Abh159]

I agree with a lot of what you said, but I think your specific situation had more to do with where you were instead of the fact that it was a retail location. 

 

If you had been in a local, small-business golf shop they probably would have swapped the shaft no problem. However, the big-box retailers like PGASS, Golf Galaxy, etc. all have corporate policies and guidelines they have to follow thus allowing them little to no flexibility on stuff like this. 

 

I always try to find what I want at the local golf shops first before trying the major retails, but sadly those are disappearing at an alarming rate. 

[AngryGilmore]

That's  a recurring thing with bigger golf outlets.  Fortunately we have a couple of smaller golf stores in my area that I can frequent.  The local guys are great.  The big golf outlets hire guys off the street who don't know f*** all about golf and throw them on the sales floor.

 

I will say that my local Golf Galaxy has pretty much gotten rid of the pathetic pre pandemic sales staff and now has a few "golf guys" working there.  Not the caliber of golf nerd you find at the smaller golf specific stores, but it's getting a little better.

Edited June 15, 2021 by AngryGilmore
Spelling

[phizzy30]

Company policy.  The sales people have to abide by the rules even if they don't make sense.  Been there done that.  At least you got the set up you wanted and only paid 20 more bucks for it.  Happy ending.  Enjoy that set up. 

[MtlJeff]

For your specific issue, i have run across this many times too. I know the folks at Golftown fairly well and they have all told me they are not allowed to swap shafts. I am guessing it is because of the inventory tracking systems, and traceability of purchases / all the components involved.

 

Overall though i do think Retail has become a lot more watered down. IMO they stopped pursuing serious players and went much more general mass market. This might be a good move on their part because it's combined with reduction of inventory overall --taking less risk

 

The golftown near my house never has good shaft selection anymore. And rarely has "tour / pro" versions of heads. It's usually the base or draw head with a 50g stiff or regular shaft. Even if the G425 comes stock with the Rogue White as one of the options, they will have zero heads with this shaft. This is not just Ping it's like this will all OEMs.

 

They seemed to have decided a few years back that people who want these clubs are more likely to order through their club pro --So they are just going after weekend guys with higher indexes/ beginners, that type of player

 

[Pepperturbo]

Switching shafts from one head to another is frowned upon, if said shaft was stock in that head.  I agree, it's kinda silly to let a $500 deal walk out the door to buy online, but sometimes the OEM affects how that retailer deals with floor sales and other times the retail lacks volume buying influence with the OEM, so has to follow what the OEM wants, even if it costs the store.

 

There's a store not far from me where this happened.  I wanted to buy a 16.5' 4 wood, but none of their 16.5 inventory had the shaft I wanted.  However, they had many 15' 3 woods with the shaft I desired.  I asked the manager if they could switch shafts.  He got on the computer and looked up my buying pattern at the store, and found I've purchased a great deal over the years, and recently spent 2k on my 620 irons in that store.   He said I see you have 620's, and smiled.  I said yep, great clubs.  He said he'll make the switch and I bought the club. 

 

Getting retail management to accommodate a customer wish for one sale, often isn't as motivating as the manager maintaining a customer relationship that spends a lot of money in that store. 

[Hellstorm]

It might also have something to do with inventory buyback.  If they sell the inventory back to the OEM or distributor, they may have to sell it exactly as it came to them.  Not saying this is the case, but it does happen.  

[Dannyboy44]

Last year I had the same issue. The shaft i wanted in my sim max was in a sim so i asked if I could swop it. Guy at Golf Galaxy let me but told me i have to pay for the price of the sim which was a little more. I tried to explain to him I think the higher price was for the sim head not the shaft but he didnt agree. So if forked out the extra cash. He may of been rite who knows. In your case they should of done it because there inventory was already messed up. 

[jholz]

I was talking to a Titleist rep a while back about issues like this. His response was a shrug and some nonsense about how "our bottom line says, pretty clearly, that we don't need to care." I didn't expect that from Acushnet. 

 

But, he was looking disdainfully at my bag full of 10 year old clubs at the time. I got the impression I wasn't worth his time either. Go figure. 

[naval2006]

11 minutes ago, jholz said:

I was talking to a Titleist rep a while back about issues like this. His response was a shrug and some nonsense about how "our bottom line says, pretty clearly, that we don't need to care." I didn't expect that from Acushnet. 

 

But, he was looking disdainfully at my bag full of 10 year old clubs at the time. I got the impression I wasn't worth his time either. Go figure. 

Some years ago on a trip to the States I got to a PGASS and the first Epic was THE club. I went to the drivers aisle and I asked one assistant around to try out one or two drivers on trackman.  The guy picked up the latest versions and went on to tell me how great these clubs were.  

 

After his speech I told him I was searching for a past model because I didn’t mean to spend 500 bucks on a driver.  His attitude changed on the spot and the guy treated me with that disdain you mentioned above.  Never bought anything and I was finally recommended a small shop where the owner sold me the Epic, a putter and two wedges.  

[jholz]

27 minutes ago, naval2006 said:

Some years ago on a trip to the States I got to a PGASS and the first Epic was THE club. I went to the drivers aisle and I asked one assistant around to try out one or two drivers on trackman.  The guy picked up the latest versions and went on to tell me how great these clubs were.  

 

After his speech I told him I was searching for a past model because I didn’t mean to spend 500 bucks on a driver.  His attitude changed on the spot and the guy treated me with that disdain you mentioned above.  Never bought anything and I was finally recommended a small shop where the owner sold me the Epic, a putter and two wedges.  

 

Yeah, you see this kind of thing all over these days in a variety of markets. With the continued concentration of money at the top of the economy, the assumption is that the only folks with money to spend are the uber wealthy. You might sell fewer units, but since the profit margins are higher, you make up for lower volume. Right now in the states, you can see this most clearly in the housing market - but golf equipment isn't far behind. 

[caniac6]

Had a similar dealing with a TM rep at a demo day. I wanted to try a fairway wood with a stiff shaft. I'm in my mid 60s, and not very big, but I'm a pretty good player, and still hit it well. His response was " Stiff? Really?". I got a 5 wood, and striped about a dozen balls, and all of a sudden, he was my best friend. When he asked me what I thought, I said it was ok, and just handed it back to him.

[tacklingdummy]

I have had similar experiences with golf retailers and a lot of other kinds of retailers. Small businesses would likely make the sale happen. I think someone put the wrong shaft in the 12* G410 Plus driver. No way that driver was configured with an x-stiff shaft. I don't even think they offer that configuration. It is even a stretch it would come with a stiff shaft. 

[tacklingdummy]

16 minutes ago, caniac6 said:

Had a similar dealing with a TM rep at a demo day. I wanted to try a fairway wood with a stiff shaft. I'm in my mid 60s, and not very big, but I'm a pretty good player, and still hit it well. His response was " Stiff? Really?". I got a 5 wood, and striped about a dozen balls, and all of a sudden, he was my best friend. When he asked me what I thought, I said it was ok, and just handed it back to him.

 

I think partly it is just the hundreds if not thousands of golfers they deal with. Overwhelming majority are not the best golfers, so their immediate response is that everyone is a high handicapper. I have been to several fittings both demo days and paid. Once they know you can play, they let you try stuff you want to try, but they all start off like you said.  😂

[kmay__]

Seems like maybe someone was already walking around in there with there wrench on them, got the head/shaft config they were after and away they went. Leaving behind a trail of 7 degree heads with senior flex shafts and 12 degree heads with x-stiff shafts lol. 

[BNGL]

2 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

Switching shafts from one head to another is frowned upon, if said shaft was stock in that head.  I agree, it's kinda silly to let a $500 deal walk out the door to buy online, but sometimes the OEM affects how that retailer deals with floor sales and other times the retail lacks volume buying influence with the OEM, so has to follow what the OEM wants, even if it costs the store.

 

There's a store not far from me where this happened.  I wanted to buy a 16.5' 4 wood, but none of their 16.5 inventory had the shaft I wanted.  However, they had many 15' 3 woods with the shaft I desired.  I asked the manager if they could switch shafts.  He got on the computer and looked up my buying pattern at the store, and found I've purchased a great deal over the years, and recently spent 2k on my 620 irons in that store.   He said I see you have 620's, and smiled.  I said yep, great clubs.  He said he'll make the switch and I bought the club. 

 

Getting retail management to accommodate a customer wish for one sale, often isn't as motivating as the manager maintaining a customer relationship that spends a lot of money in that store. 

Looked up my buying pattern at the store? Are you for real dude?

[JeffreySpicoli]

As a successful CEO and a low handicap golfer that throws darts with his irons (and don't even get me started on how good I am with my 2 iron), I make all of my purchases via concierge services and personal buyers.

 

I find it hard to believe that anyone purchases via retail any more.

[Pepperturbo]

8 minutes ago, BNGL said:

Looked up my buying pattern at the store? Are you for real dude?

You must live in the outback... lol  That store does that with everyone that purchases. 

Edited June 15, 2021 by Pepperturbo

[electroleum]

3 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

For your specific issue, i have run across this many times too. I know the folks at Golftown fairly well and they have all told me they are not allowed to swap shafts. I am guessing it is because of the inventory tracking systems, and traceability of purchases / all the components involved.

 

Overall though i do think Retail has become a lot more watered down. IMO they stopped pursuing serious players and went much more general mass market. This might be a good move on their part because it's combined with reduction of inventory overall --taking less risk

 

The golftown near my house never has good shaft selection anymore. And rarely has "tour / pro" versions of heads. It's usually the base or draw head with a 50g stiff or regular shaft. Even if the G425 comes stock with the Rogue White as one of the options, they will have zero heads with this shaft. This is not just Ping it's like this will all OEMs.

 

They seemed to have decided a few years back that people who want these clubs are more likely to order through their club pro --So they are just going after weekend guys with higher indexes/ beginners, that type of player

 

As a former Golf Town employee, it saddens me to hear that's how they're forced to operate these days. 

I mean, sure, I had plenty of gripes about working there...but the one thing I appreciated the most is that I was pretty much given carte blanche to ensure that the customer was ALWAYS taken care of. If clubs with swappable shafts had been the norm back when I had worked there, we wouldn't have even batted an eyelash if a customer asked to swap heads. 

And to OP's comment about the 12* head and the X Stiff shaft - strangely, I know someone who that combination would be perfect for. My old manager at Golf Town would have LOVED it. His optimal setup was always X flex shaft and a high-lofted head...and he was a low single digit handicapper. I could never really explain it, but his launch monitor numbers didn't lie. 

[golfortennis]

1 hour ago, tacklingdummy said:

 

I think partly it is just the hundreds if not thousands of golfers they deal with. Overwhelming majority are not the best golfers, so their immediate response is that everyone is a high handicapper. I have been to several fittings both demo days and paid. Once they know you can play, they let you try stuff you want to try, but they all start off like you said.  😂

 

But you know what?  They kill a number of sales that way.  You make an assumption about a potential customer, and turn out to be wrong, now you're digging yourself out of a hole.  Ask a few questions, go with what the customer says initially, and then if the numbers suggest something else, "do you mind if I try something?  I just want to see a comparison."  "Stiff, really?" just tells me they either are pro shops guys who believe themselves to be above what they are doing, or really have no idea on how to work in sales.

 

If the attitude changes based on them seeing I can actually play, I'm done.  I may hit some, but no way I'm buying from them.    

[MtlJeff]

17 minutes ago, electroleum said:

As a former Golf Town employee, it saddens me to hear that's how they're forced to operate these days. 

I mean, sure, I had plenty of gripes about working there...but the one thing I appreciated the most is that I was pretty much given carte blanche to ensure that the customer was ALWAYS taken care of. If clubs with swappable shafts had been the norm back when I had worked there, we wouldn't have even batted an eyelash if a customer asked to swap heads. 

And to OP's comment about the 12* head and the X Stiff shaft - strangely, I know someone who that combination would be perfect for. My old manager at Golf Town would have LOVED it. His optimal setup was always X flex shaft and a high-lofted head...and he was a low single digit handicapper. I could never really explain it, but his launch monitor numbers didn't lie. 

 

Yeah, and i have nothing at all against Golftown. They were always really good to me and i was very friendly with many employees there over the years. Used to know the store manager really well, and their club shop guy and me also got to know each other really well.

 

A few years back the model seemed to really change. They seemed less interested in doing custom orders and it really became more of "sell the inventory" model. Again, this might be better for them in the long run....and if so GREAT, because i always need a place to get balls and gloves when they are discounted. Just bought 5 boxes of Zstars for 29$ each....so there's that

 

I have not ordered a club from Golftown in probably 2-3 years. Everything goes through my pro now. He orders to spec and i like supporting my club anyway

[Weston1111]

A few years back I worked at a big box golf retail store and a lot of the processes they had in place made zero sense to me. I ended up leaving before they fired all of their PGA Professionals just because by looking at the numbers I could see the writing on the wall. I will sometimes go back to see how things are and its extremely sad to see how bad it looks with very few people shopping. We do have a local store that has excellent customer with knowledgeable staff and that place stays busy constantly. I could go on and on about why a lot of these big box stores are failing and at the time when I tried to point out some of these issues to management they were all ignored. 

[BNGL]

4 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

You must live in the outback... lol  That store does that with everyone that purchases. 

Here’s my outback…as of about 8 am this morning

[regiwstruk]

1 hour ago, Weston1111 said:

A few years back I worked at a big box golf retail store and a lot of the processes they had in place made zero sense to me. I ended up leaving before they fired all of their PGA Professionals just because by looking at the numbers I could see the writing on the wall. I will sometimes go back to see how things are and its extremely sad to see how bad it looks with very few people shopping. We do have a local store that has excellent customer with knowledgeable staff and that place stays busy constantly. I could go on and on about why a lot of these big box stores are failing and at the time when I tried to point out some of these issues to management they were all ignored. 

 

I’m here for it if you want to go on and on 😁 

[dcfball88]

Hey did PGASS ever address the inaccurate store inventory with you? Did they offer to order it from another store or order it new for you? Is that not a thing?

[AC in TX]

Not related to the actual driver/shaft deal but more my personal golf retail view from Austin:

 

Used to shop at Edwin Watts - good guys ... then they closed the store.

Then shopped at Golf Galaxy ... Dick's bought them and closed the store (their sales were apparently hurting their Dick's 🙂) ... 

Later worked at Golfsmith corporate and would buy clubs via PUD (most awesome) ... then Golfsmith went away ...

We have a PGASS and Golf Galaxy (former Golfsmith store) here now but I don't buy much there - frankly, I can't justify $600 drivers, $2,000 irons and $500 putters at my handicap ...

My current mostly senior flex Ping bag is from Callaway Pre-Owned "other brands" sales, I have a couple of putters from GolfWRX, and I have a set of PXG irons I bought direct last year to give them a try.

 

Will big box retail survive or will it eventually be replaced by direct sales from the usual suspects (Ping, Acushnet, Callaway) plus a few others/maybe some new ones, and some boutique manufacturers for shafts and putters ... who knows? 

Edited June 16, 2021 by AC in TX

[LPSISCO]

I wanted to buy a used Ping 400 LST 8.5* driver at PGASS, but it had a X stiff Ping Tour shaft in it. They had the same driver at 10.5* with the stiff Ping Tour shaft I wanted. Same price for each driver on the Used rack.

 

They wouldn’t swap the shafts. Made absolutely no sense.

[Pepperturbo]

17 hours ago, BNGL said:

Here’s my outback…as of about 8 am this morning

My backyard has one of those too... :p

 

[larryd3]

The local Edwin Watts here has swapped shafts for me with no questions at all.  They've even taken a friend's replacement driver from Callaway that came in right handed instead of left handed and let it be swapped for any other driver in the store.  They are very accommodating and they do what it takes to keep a customer happy.  

[PJE]

A few years ago, a Ping account rep. told me the terms of accounts between retailers and Ping prohibit swapping shafts on new items. 
So, maybe that’s what happened?

I know Ping is really strict on their terms with at least smaller retailers. They will sever accounts with retailers who don’t follow their embargos and pricing structure.