Euro Tour: Irish & Scottish Opens

[Hawkeye77]

1 minute ago, smashdn said:

Said in his conversations with the ET that they wanted to add more penal bunkers in the driving zones in areas.  He wasn't thrilled and tried or was successful in talking them out of it based upon what he had learned from Koepka and Harrington regarding how the tour guys approach risk.

 

I want it to play harder.  Harder does not have to mean a traditional US Open set up.  I don't want that.  Wide, running fairways don't mean easy automatically.  Wide sticky fairways mean you will end up with a fair to good lie though and it will likely stay close to where the ball lands.  About the only things that give the tour guys pause is wind, rock hard approaches and greens, and deep rough.  I don't like the deep, nearly unplayable rough idea.  If it can be crispy and thin and create uncertainty but still offer recovery that would be ideal.  Rock hard approaches and greens can be negated by weather and wind, goes without saying, it is uncontrollable.

 

Putting holes in locations that are best accessed from a certain side or spot in the fairway and then having some feature in the fairway would be ideal, especially on the latter holes on Sunday when someone may need to take on some added risk in order to reach for a birdie.  I don't know the course well enough to say what hole or where the hole would be but that would be my plan.  Reward well executed aggressive play, both off the tee and from the fairway.  Indifferent play results in indifferent scores.  Poor plan or poor execution puts you in a bad spot.

 

 

Paddy is involved, Doak is involved - doesn't seem to be any worry at all that it will be a U.S. Open, and the rough is the rough based on whatever the weather has been would be my guess given they are involved.  

[Hawkeye77]

1 minute ago, smashdn said:

 

If they wouldn't go in and change the whole world around to play the course then you are giving up a week and half or so.  You will still have stands on it but it still be playable.  No reason to alter a sound links course the way we do to US courses to provide an appropriate challenge.

There is a lot more to it than giving up 10 days or so, and links courses aren't magically decent tests for Tour players.

[smashdn]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

There is a lot more to it than giving up 10 days or so, and links courses aren't magically decent tests for Tour players.

 

How would your set up change from day-to-day to a tournament set up for TOC for conversation purposes?

[Hawkeye77]

4 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

How would your set up change from day-to-day to a tournament set up for TOC for conversation purposes?

Here's a good article with one example, pretty interesting.

 

https://www.golfwrx.com/428302/what-it-takes-to-set-up-a-golf-course-for-a-tour-event/

[smashdn]

8 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Here's a good article with one example, pretty interesting.

 

https://www.golfwrx.com/428302/what-it-takes-to-set-up-a-golf-course-for-a-tour-event/

 

So the answer was grass height?  Aside from faster greens (which the GK said would put them at risk of balls not staying put if winds were 10-15mph) it doesn't detail what the other hoc are.  Could be longer, could be shorter.

 

So, like I said, if you don't change the whole world around (moving tees, adding tees (especially at TOC since it already has the back tee boxes)) you mow it a little shorter on the greens especially and play.  A course that is already playing as a links doesn't need much extra to get it to tournament shape, if you even want to go there.  Does longer fairway hoc make it harder or easier for pros?  If you have random wispy rough what does growing it out or cutting it back gain you from a tournament perspective?  No reason you can't play it as you find it right?

 

Now I do think you can cut holes in more aggressive locations where you normally would not for everyday play.  But I have also read that, with the PGA Tour anyway, they will put them in easier spots than normal as well.

 

From > http://www.graylynloomis.com/st-andrews-links-behind-the-scenes/ <

"How does typical course care differ from tournament course preparation (ie for the Dunhill or Open)?
There is very little difference. When it comes to something like the Dunhill, we would cut all areas every day from a week beforehand whereas we would normally only cut tees, surrounds and fairways 2 or 3 times a week. Greens are cut every day anyway from April until October. Depending on weather and growth we might roll the greens more often during the period. It’s unlikely we would alter the height of cut but that would be growth dependent. We would have timed any topdressing or fertiliser applications so that they wouldn’t fall the week before the tournament and we wouldn’t aerate the greens in the close lead up to an event."

[Hawkeye77]

7 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

So the answer was grass height?  Aside from faster greens (which the GK said would put them at risk of balls not staying put if winds were 10-15mph) it doesn't detail what the other hoc are.  Could be longer, could be shorter.

 

So, like I said, if you don't change the whole world around (moving tees, adding tees (especially at TOC since it already has the back tee boxes)) you mow it a little shorter on the greens especially and play.  A course that is already playing as a links doesn't need much extra to get it to tournament shape, if you even want to go there.  Does longer fairway hoc make it harder or easier for pros?  If you have random wispy rough what does growing it out or cutting it back gain you from a tournament perspective?  No reason you can't play it as you find it right?

 

Now I do think you can cut holes in more aggressive locations where you normally would not for everyday play.  But I have also read that, with the PGA Tour anyway, they will put them in easier spots than normal as well.

 

From > http://www.graylynloomis.com/st-andrews-links-behind-the-scenes/ <

"How does typical course care differ from tournament course preparation (ie for the Dunhill or Open)?
There is very little difference. When it comes to something like the Dunhill, we would cut all areas every day from a week beforehand whereas we would normally only cut tees, surrounds and fairways 2 or 3 times a week. Greens are cut every day anyway from April until October. Depending on weather and growth we might roll the greens more often during the period. It’s unlikely we would alter the height of cut but that would be growth dependent. We would have timed any topdressing or fertiliser applications so that they wouldn’t fall the week before the tournament and we wouldn’t aerate the greens in the close lead up to an event."

 

Just seemed like good info. Nice to know what goes into the Dunhill.

[elwhippy]

Prepare to be bored senseless with the Renaissance. Very bland design and trying to be famous by association...it is next door to Muirfield. Unfortunately it is not Muirfield or even Gullane 1 or 2. 

[MattyO1984]

14 hours ago, elwhippy said:

Prepare to be bored senseless with the Renaissance. Very bland design and trying to be famous by association...it is next door to Muirfield. Unfortunately it is not Muirfield or even Gullane 1 or 2. 

 

Disagree with you on that. Open and relatively easy off the sure tee but certainly not bland.

 

The routing that they used for the Scottish Open in 2019 didn’t help with the majority of the most interesting holes being in the first 5 or 6 that they played, not in the normal route that the course designer had intended.

[Hawkeye77]

Irish Open starts tomorrow!

 

Bumping up because it is actually being played this week. 😉

[Hankshank]

Has Rory taken his hand away from Irish? I thought his Idea was to have the Irish played on the Linkses. Really liked it, especially that year on Royal County down. Those Celtic Tiger courses aint much to my liking. 
 

Aint no country in the world I have so many ”romantic ideas” about as Ireland. Working a lot with Irish people during 2 decades in a multinational company just made that stronger and Dublin is the town I feel most at home in outside the Stockholm region. 
 

The history of poorness, fighting, creating rugged personalities, one can imagine that seeing players like Paul Dunne or Leona Macguire, even more the world class pub chumminess as one sees in Rory, Padraig and of course Shane McGow... sorry Lowry. Clubs like K club and Juliet doesn’t really fit in to that.

 

Hope some Irish members read this, you will understand the humour in the stereotypes. But you have to admit, you are world class pub chummy. At least you used to be. A good while since I worked with Irish people.
 

And I would 100 times more want to enjoy a beer at Rorys father’s pub than in that castle structure, probably built for an englishman.  Hope we’ll be back at the links next year. 
 

That said, of course I look forward to the tournament starting today!

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by Hankshank

[grm24]

22 minutes ago, Hankshank said:

Has Rory taken his hand away from Irish? I thought his Idea was to have the Irish played on the Linkses?

Yes. After 2018.

 

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/golf/arid-30853851.html

 

McIlroy will hand over the mantle of tournament host to European Ryder Cup-winning captain Paul McGinley at Lahinch next July when the Irish Open visits Clare for the first time with his fellow Irish major winners Darren Clarke, Padraig Harrington, and Graeme McDowell set to rotate the duties in honour of their remarkable career achievements.

[elwhippy]

Dumbarnie on my travel list for later this year. 

[Dave230]

3 hours ago, Hankshank said:

Has Rory taken his hand away from Irish? I thought his Idea was to have the Irish played on the Linkses. Really liked it, especially that year on Royal County down. Those Celtic Tiger courses aint much to my liking. 
 

Aint no country in the world I have so many ”romantic ideas” about as Ireland. Working a lot with Irish people during 2 decades in a multinational company just made that stronger and Dublin is the town I feel most at home in outside the Stockholm region. 
 

The history of poorness, fighting, creating rugged personalities, one can imagine that seeing players like Paul Dunne or Leona Macguire, even more the world class pub chumminess as one sees in Rory, Padraig and of course Shane McGow... sorry Lowry. Clubs like K club and Juliet doesn’t really fit in to that.

 

Hope some Irish members read this, you will understand the humour in the stereotypes. But you have to admit, you are world class pub chummy. At least you used to be. A good while since I worked with Irish people.
 

And I would 100 times more want to enjoy a beer at Rorys father’s pub than in that castle structure, probably built for an englishman.  Hope we’ll be back at the links next year. 
 

That said, of course I look forward to the tournament starting today!

 

Ireland has good parkland courses as well. I agree that links is more appealing but I don’t agree that parkland should never get the chance to host a tournament.

 

For example, some people said Adare Manor was a boring choice for the Ryder Cup, but that’s from people that have never been there or played it. Adare Manor with the new design is an incredible course, in fact better than a number of the top links I’ve played in Ireland, in my opinion. And a lot of people who have been there would agree, up there with the closest things Europe has come up with to Augusta. 

[Hankshank]

23 minutes ago, Dave230 said:

Ireland has good parkland courses as well. I agree that links is more appealing but I don’t agree that parkland should never get the chance to host a tournament.

 

For example, some people said Adare Manor was a boring choice for the Ryder Cup, but that’s from people that have never been there or played it. Adare Manor with the new design is an incredible course, in fact better than a number of the top links I’ve played in Ireland, in my opinion. And a lot of people who have been there would agree, up there with the closest things Europe has come up with to Augusta. 

I'm not saying, for a second that the K-clubbers are in any way bad, I did enjoy the recurring K-club event on ET as long as it was played. But not for Irish Open. I think Rory was on the right track there, even if not all of "his" tournaments were like seaside. The tournament felt distinctively Irish, and I think thats a good thing. Granted, The Open Championship on Royal Portrush was a hit, but the occasion some years before that when the Irish was played there was even better.

[Hankshank]

Der Kaymer seems to have found some of that  W#1 form again.

And happy to see Kinhult starting well. Exited to see Norrman as well. We have had a bit of a drought of successes on the big guys tours the last years, but there seem to be some some good young guys coming out of the US universities now. The girls squad seem even more promising. Don't know what's happened really. Maybe that later generation got bored by computer gaming and snapchatting and found outdoors activities attractive again...  Stensons win on Troon might have inspired a few.

Edited July 1, 2021 by Hankshank
added info needed

[bscinstnct]

Ireland 🇮🇪 is dope!

 

Nice event, very chill vibe

 

 

 

 

[GolfTurkey]

Rory not firing over the first few holes. Still seems to be fighting overdraw/push misses.

[Hankshank]

Not the most prophilic of golf courses, TV experience wise. 

[elwhippy]

Ireland has some great courses. And we end up at a mediocre resort course. Same as last year's event. 

[golfortennis]

I'm not sure what the situation was in Ireland, but the UK locked down golf courses for how long, and I think Ireland did as well.  Who wants to give up their course after having a good stretch of the season held from you.  

[puttingmatt]

On 6/28/2021 at 1:58 PM, jmck said:

Yes sir. Best three weeks of the golf season—Irish, Scottish, British Opens.

Yes Sir, I wait all year for these three .  Fantastic string of tournaments . 

 

Edited July 2, 2021 by puttingmatt

[Hawkeye77]

18 hours ago, elwhippy said:

Ireland has some great courses. And we end up at a mediocre resort course. Same as last year's event. 

Had to be somewhere, likely too hard to plan too far in advance and predict the ins and outs of COVID restrictions so previous venue/lodging on property and so on seems to have made it the best answer (maybe the only one for even having it this year).

[smashdn]

19 hours ago, elwhippy said:

Ireland has some great courses. And we end up at a mediocre resort course. Same as last year's event. 

 

That and it wasn't built/intended to be a mediocre course.

[peepee]

4 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

That and it wasn't built/intended to be a mediocre course.

It's actually a really good course, it's just the pros seem to find these places so easy now. Also the camera work doesn't do it justice. 

[Dave230]

On 7/1/2021 at 10:38 PM, elwhippy said:

Ireland has some great courses. And we end up at a mediocre resort course. Same as last year's event. 

Money talks in these things but also so does infrastructure, some great links are just not suited to hosting a tournament at all, not enough accommodation options and bad transport links. Portmarnock has just accepted female members (finally) so hopefully it will bring links tournaments back to Dublin.

[smashdn]

18 hours ago, peepee said:

It's actually a really good course, it's just the pros seem to find these places so easy now. Also the camera work doesn't do it justice. 

 

I am not saying it is a bad course.  I am saying it is not being presented as it was designed to play.

 

I am also saying that Ireland is blessed with better, more interesting links courses.  Whether or not a membership is willing to give up their course is another matter.

 

I don't think this is the best they could come up with (inclusive of the course presentation/set up) if the course availability variable was no issue.

[Wormkiller]

Hope fellow Aussie Herbert can bring it home in the rain today

[KennyP]

6 hours ago, Wormkiller said:

Hope fellow Aussie Herbert can bring it home in the rain today

 

Solid performance today to secure the win.

I always thought Lucas was a bit too erratic to be really successful, but he showed great maturity.

[seis]

Big win for the Aussie, loved his caddy. Amazing white beard.

[Wormkiller]

1 hour ago, seis said:

Big win for the Aussie, loved his caddy. Amazing white beard.

Reminds me a bit of Happy Gilmore’s caddy lol