Garmin Approach R10 Portable Golf Launch Monitor

[Murdock]

16 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

I am deeply familiar with how the numbers work on Trackman and you NEVER see inaccurate positive or negative path and face numbers. They clearly have a degree of error for the exact number but they are always correct in the overall path and face direction and relationship.

 

The R10 is most likely going to be even less accurate for the exact degree reported but it can and should be able to determine positive or negative path and face angles and report the overall path to face relationship as positive or negative. My point was that if it can accurately report a positive or negative face to path relationship (which is should be able to) this thing is an absolute game changer for $600.

 

Right, I was going to post something similar but you beat me to it. 

 

As long as it generally gets the path direction correct, then that should be adequate at this price point.  To what magnitude or degree?  Who knows until it's tested head to head both indoors and outdoors with a GC Quad/Trackman/etc.  As long as that 4 degrees (which, let's be honest, that seems like quite a lot for the miniscule numbers were talking) doesn't impact the overall direction, such as you actually swinging 2 deg LEFT and it reports 2 deg RIGHT...everyone should be good.  We can't expect it to be tenths of a degree accurate compared to a 5 figure LM (at least I can't).  

 

Also, that's good news about the update already.  That makes it even more promising in my opinion.  Of course, time will tell. 

 

 

[Murdock]

6 minutes ago, North Butte said:

So if the real path is -1 degree you are saying Trackman may say it is -2 or -3 but it is literally impossible for Trackman to say 0 or +1?
 

I don’t believe there is any way for that to be true. 

 

I would like someone with intimate knowledge of those higher end LM to weigh into this.  Because I don't know, but now I'm curious.  

 

Truthfully, I'm not sure how either would handle paths that are less than 1 degree.   By using a high end LM, can you be absolutely certain you're swinging 0.5 deg left versus 0.5 deg right?  

[mgoblue83]

8 minutes ago, North Butte said:

So if the real path is -1 degree you are saying Trackman may say it is -2 or -3 but it is literally impossible for Trackman to say 0 or +1?
 

I don’t believe there is any way for that to be true. 

 

That is exactly what I am saying. It's also true for the higher end Flightscope and Foresight units.

 

They may have a margin of error for the numbers reported but they will always get the overall relationship and direction correct. I'm hoping the R10 is similar.

[mgoblue83]

1 minute ago, Murdock said:

 

I would like someone with intimate knowledge of those higher end LM to weigh into this.  Because I don't know, but now I'm curious.  

 

Truthfully, I'm not sure how either would handle paths that are less than 1 degree.   By using a high end LM, can you be absolutely certain you're swinging 0.5 deg left versus 0.5 deg right?  

 

It's possible because of backwards calculating from the ball launch conditions which are the most accurate measurements taken from every launch monitor.

[North Butte]

Ok, now you are not talking measurement but estimation by formulas. 
 

The problem with a low end monitor is going to be that all the other “most accurate” numbers they would use to estimate the difficult numbers are themselves going to be subject to potentially large errors. Larger than Trackman almost certainly. 
 

You seem to be assuming that since Trackman always manages to calculate a correct L/R direction (which I still do not believe) then this $600 monitor is always going to manage to get direction correct. I do not share your faith at all.

 

 

[Red4282]

23 minutes ago, North Butte said:

So if the real path is -1 degree you are saying Trackman may say it is -2 or -3 but it is literally impossible for Trackman to say 0 or +1?
 

I don’t believe there is any way for that to be true. 

If it reads spin axis good enough and ball start direction, the path and face calculations are actually not complex and should be accurate…again assuming axis and start direction readings are accurate.

[North Butte]

27 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

If it reads spin axis good enough and ball start direction, the path and face calculations are actually not complex and should be accurate…again assuming axis and start direction readings are accurate.

Sure. But that’s a big assumption. You can’t go through the list of numbers and say each one will be good enough if all the others are accurate. 
 

The R10 will be however good it is if/when it actually arrives. You can’t prove it will do a good job by just saying so. There is no basis for belief one way or another about it at this point. 

[mgoblue83]

7 minutes ago, North Butte said:

Sure. But that’s a big assumption. You can’t go through the list of numbers and say each one will be good enough if all the others are accurate. 
 

The R10 will be however good it is if/when it actually arrives. You can’t prove it will do a good job by just saying so. There is no basis for belief one way or another about it at this point. 

 

Nobody is arguing that the unit will need to be tested and until it is we won't know how good it is. The other side of that coin is also true in that you shouldn't assume it will be bad.

 

My only point is that through a combination of ball/club measurements and backwards calculating it should be able to provide accurate path and face directions along with path and face relationships. If it can provide those it is game changing for $600 even if it has a higher margin of error for the exact numbers.

[North Butte]

1 hour ago, mgoblue83 said:

If it can provide those it is game changing for $600 even if it has a higher margin of error for the exact numbers.

That's as may be but my point is, I don't think "higher...error for the exact numbers" can coexist with being correct about the direction of the club path and ball flight.

 

If there is a larger error in the actual measurements, there absolutely will be more error in the values calculated from those measurements. You're basically hoping that your bottom-line most important numbers will be accurate even if everything else is very inaccurate. That's wishful thinking. 

[Dan13]

New video posted by everyone's favorite reviewer. No real accuracy testing here but worth a watch. Overall he makes it look pretty good and gives you an idea of the kind of sim you are getting for $600.  Wonder how it does  indoors. . . .

 

 

[Stuart_G]

16 hours ago, Red4282 said:

If it reads spin axis good enough and ball start direction, the path and face calculations are actually not complex and should be accurate…again assuming axis and start direction readings are accurate.

 

If you're talking Trackman indoors (or flightscope), I understand that head path is tracked directly, face angle is calculated from ball flight direction, spin axis is calculated from face and path.  Outdoors the only difference is spin axis is calculated from ball curvature.

 

Angular error is angular error - there is nothing special about the zero point that prevents the error from crossing that line. 

 

And @mgoblue83for radar, the most accurate measurements are distance and velocity, not direction.

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Stuart_G

[Benoit61]

How does this guy not do a real review with a side by side of a trackman or gc quad … doesn’t look good on garmin that no one is putting up reviews … gut feeling tells me they got bad feedback and are working hard to fix it and have asked their ppl to keep quiet until the fixes 

[amir169]

He did, 2 weeks back. Really intrigued about this device, may make a purchase once it is available. As @Dan13 had said, wonder how it works indoors / into a net.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yqDKwwiZUM

 

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by amir169

[Sandhurst241069]

1 hour ago, Benoit61 said:

How does this guy not do a real review with a side by side of a trackman or gc quad … doesn’t look good on garmin that no one is putting up reviews … gut feeling tells me they got bad feedback and are working hard to fix it and have asked their ppl to keep quiet until the fixes 

Yep .. definitely the feeling I get. It’s worth noting that the little feedback there is out there.. even including LetsPlayThru guy .. is hinting at numbers indoor are not bring as accurate .. maybe that’s the sticking point at present..

[Sandhurst241069]

12 minutes ago, amir169 said:

He did, 2 weeks back. Really intrigued about this device, may make a purchase once it is available. As @Dan13 had said, wonder how it works indoors / into a net.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yqDKwwiZUM

 

 

Yes if you watch all of that it’s very anecdotal.. and he notes his results indoors weren’t as good..

[North Butte]

9 hours ago, Benoit61 said:

How does this guy not do a real review with a side by side of a trackman or gc quad … doesn’t look good on garmin that no one is putting up reviews … gut feeling tells me they got bad feedback and are working hard to fix it and have asked their ppl to keep quiet until the fixes 

You're looking for a review that tells us whether the thing works well or not.

 

Those videos are advertising to tell us how great it's going to be. Different types of video.

[RCGA]

So we're a month in to pre-orders and there's still only one "review"? YouTube or otherwise. 

[mgoblue83]

Does anyone know when the embargo or whatever is delaying the reviews is over? Like when can we expect real reviews?

[rshinazy]

I had this on pre-order from PlayBetter and just got an email saying my order has been cancelled on my request and my payment has been refunded... and I never cancelled. I had also ordered it through Dicks and haven't seen any updates from them. 

[Murdock]

1 hour ago, rshinazy said:

I had this on pre-order from PlayBetter and just got an email saying my order has been cancelled on my request and my payment has been refunded... and I never cancelled. I had also ordered it through Dicks and haven't seen any updates from them. 

 

Wow I wonder what happened?  

 

I pre-ordered through Crutchfield and of course this had me curious as well.  So I checked the order status and the order is still valid it appears for now.  Of note, it says the item is backordered from the manufacturer (probably standard verbiage, even though its a pre-order) and it says expected in stock September 3, 2021.  So seems like we'll be waiting another month at least...more time for them to iron out the bugs I'm hoping?

[FlashinLeather]

I pre-ordered through Dicks. No update yet. 

[Grig]

2 hours ago, rshinazy said:

I had this on pre-order from PlayBetter and just got an email saying my order has been cancelled on my request and my payment has been refunded... and I never cancelled. I had also ordered it through Dicks and haven't seen any updates from them. 

 

I also pre-ordered from PlayBetter. I have not received an email and status still is 'order confirmed'. Their customer support is usually quite responsive. I would reach out to them directly.

 

Sine they expected the first (very small) batch to be shipped from Garmin to them last week, I would assume the first pre-orders should soon be shipped and we might finally get some better reviews. 

[pjm]

FWIW, a large Australian golf store shows the release date of the R10 as 29 August. 

[DaveIrl]

Halphaney Golf in Ireland (One of the biggest suppliers of golf equipment in the country) have it listed for launch on the 5th of August. They are normally pretty reliable so I would expect it to be released in Ireland on the 5th. I'm holding off on buying until I see some proper reviews.

[conallms]

16 minutes ago, DaveIrl said:

Halphaney Golf in Ireland (One of the biggest suppliers of golf equipment in the country) have it listed for launch on the 5th of August. They are normally pretty reliable so I would expect it to be released in Ireland on the 5th. I'm holding off on buying until I see some proper reviews.

I preordered one in the Drogheda store, and they called me today saying it will be in next week.

[North Butte]

It's pretty clear the release is going to slip a few times, as happens with every tech product. The companies deliberately tease these things as becoming available far earlier than will actually happen. It keeps the hype and online discussion flowing.

[Oh Hi Carl]

Garmin site is still saying estimated delivery in 2-3 weeks. Hard to believe 

[jlevatino1122]

I spoke with rainorshine golf yesterday to check in and they said they were supposed to get their shipment this week, but it has a one week delay. Hopefully that’s accurate.  I’m 4th on their list so should be one of the first people to receive one. I also have a mevo+ so once I get mine I will be at the range doing a comparison. 

[Stuart_G]

2 hours ago, jlevatino1122 said:

I also have a mevo+ so once I get mine I will be at the range doing a comparison. 

 

Just be aware that running both at the same time could create the potential of them interfering with each other.

[rshinazy]

21 hours ago, rshinazy said:

I had this on pre-order from PlayBetter and just got an email saying my order has been cancelled on my request and my payment has been refunded... and I never cancelled. I had also ordered it through Dicks and haven't seen any updates from them. 

 

 

UPDATE: PlayBetter called me and said they cancelled it by mistake and said if I put in a new order, they would make sure I'm on the list of first ones out. They also said that they were supposed to get them in this week, but looking like it might be more like a couple weeks, but couldn't really give an accurate answer.