It's now HOW you grip the club, but WHEN.

[tthomasgolfer605]

I thought I'd pass on something I learned many years ago that takes care of how you hold the club without having to overthink it.  I had a habit of gripping the club on the ground as many others do . My entire setup was messed up because of that. (Aimed way right without knowing it, among other things, looking at my grip with the club soled ruined my posture) until I saw it on camera. Setting the club in the hands while I was walking to the ball with the club raised up had a big effect on clubface control and how I set up to the shot. For me personally, soling the club THEN gripping it puts the grip more in the lifeline of the left hand with the buttpad on the left side and I wondered why I wore out gloves in no time. I basically reversed the setup sequence. Grip it, sole it, aim it, then rip it.  

[Hawkeye77]

My wife soles the club, grips with the club on the ground, then wiggles into a stance that aims her body 30 yards right, club face closed and pointing at the spot she picked out six inches in front of the ball and never looking up and at the target.  So a similar problem, but it doesn't affect her grip position on the club.  We were actually working on this last night on the course. It's a knotty problem.  Gripping before and stepping in really wasn't the answer, either, but she tried that.  Seems like her issue is more with visualizing the target and knowing what it looks like from a proper stance/alignment and prior, and not getting obsessed with a point on the ground directly in front of her ball and getting "less precise" (she teaches geometry and advanced algebra).  She tried Monte's method of two spots up ahead on the ground, kind of a "field goal" approach - "where do I draw the lines" "is it an isosceles triangle with a corner at the ball?" - lines, lines, lines.  Forgetting that and just trying to aim at the middle of a big fat tree that was square behind in the middle of the green was a struggle, haha.  She just processes things differently but IMO was having a "big picture" issue and we'll see if looking at the situation, the target, knowing what it should look like when she's setting up, etc. is helpful - maybe it won't be but she wanted to try something different.

 

Whether I grip ahead or sole lightly with my right hand on the club while stepping in, I'm taking my proper grip 100% of the time, for me my grip is my grip, never really had any big issues with it, though it is slightly stronger in the right hand the last few years per Monte.  

 

So, I'm more Greg Norman with my setup and taking my grip.  But my grip isn't the root issue with my setup and alignment issues.

 

I haven't looked at Bradley Hughes for a long time.  He suggests Nicklaus did what he did, maybe subconsciously, to get his dominant left eye on the target while setting up, and suggests Norman's right eye dominance may have played into how he wanted to get a look at the hole.  Interesting.

 

Whatever works for you!

 

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by Hawkeye77

[TheDeanAbides]

6 hours ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

I thought I'd pass on something I learned many years ago that takes care of how you hold the club without having to overthink it.  I had a habit of gripping the club on the ground as many others do . My entire setup was messed up because of that. (Aimed way right without knowing it, among other things, looking at my grip with the club soled ruined my posture) until I saw it on camera. Setting the club in the hands while I was walking to the ball with the club raised up had a big effect on clubface control and how I set up to the shot. For me personally, soling the club THEN gripping it puts the grip more in the lifeline of the left hand with the buttpad on the left side and I wondered why I wore out gloves in no time. I basically reversed the setup sequence. Grip it, sole it, aim it, then rip it.  

I have always formed my grip with the club out in front of me. Should I ever post a swing (if I ever get to swing a club again!) you'll see it as part of my preshot routine.

[tthomasgolfer605]

37 minutes ago, iSwing said:

Connect club to arms via grip and connect arms to body by way of process.

 

 

 

Seeing in believing, one of the better aiming videos on the net:

 

https://www.secretgolf.com/videos/profiles/bradley-hughes/drills/bradley-hughes--aim-drill

 

 

 

Interesting stuff. Gravity is at play as well as it secures the grip into the last three fingers of the left hand with the heel pad on top.  What it's doing is eliminating any twisting of the grip in the hands. One less thing to worry about. 

[@_the_crook]

great topic .

shaft length, which affects clubhead and swing arc is very important.

 

gripping before stepping to the ball led me to many, many errors.

I play standard to half inch shorter iron shafts and grips with two extra wraps under the right hand.

 

assessing the lie and getting my stance, then setting my left, then right hands led to improvement.

my keys are:

left hand for length, right hand for alignment.

 

 

[ezpz]

its not when to grip the club, it's why to grip the club..

[Tupperwolf]

OP, where is the picture from? I'm intrigued by it and not exactly sure what it's illustrating since it seems to show the opposite of what you're saying. 

 

For a long time I've had the routine of gripping the club, using it to pick my line and pick up a spot 3ft in front of the ball, lining up to that spot and swinging. I see most pros do the opposite, and I've tried it, but my routine has been ingrained for quite a long time and it's difficult to change. 

[tthomasgolfer605]

 

5 hours ago, Tupperwolf said:

OP, where is the picture from? I'm intrigued by it and not exactly sure what it's illustrating since it seems to show the opposite of what you're saying. 

 

For a long time I've had the routine of gripping the club, using it to pick my line and pick up a spot 3ft in front of the ball, lining up to that spot and swinging. I see most pros do the opposite, and I've tried it, but my routine has been ingrained for quite a long time and it's difficult to change. 

It's just showing how the the club should lay more diagonally into the forefinger of the left hand on the bottom part of the photo. I tend to get a bit palmy when soling the club on the ground rather than gripping it beforehand.  If you get a bad wear mark in the heel pad, it means it's on the side or a bit under the shaft instead of on top. I found that pic searching for wear marks on gloves.  As long as you lift the club upward before you sole it, it'll slide down securely into the last three fingers. Here's a better example. 

[tthomasgolfer605]

17 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

My wife soles the club, grips with the club on the ground, then wiggles into a stance that aims her body 30 yards right, club face closed and pointing at the spot she picked out six inches in front of the ball and never looking up and at the target.  So a similar problem, but it doesn't affect her grip position on the club.  We were actually working on this last night on the course. It's a knotty problem.  Gripping before and stepping in really wasn't the answer, either, but she tried that.  Seems like her issue is more with visualizing the target and knowing what it looks like from a proper stance/alignment and prior, and not getting obsessed with a point on the ground directly in front of her ball and getting "less precise" (she teaches geometry and advanced algebra).  She tried Monte's method of two spots up ahead on the ground, kind of a "field goal" approach - "where do I draw the lines" "is it an isosceles triangle with a corner at the ball?" - lines, lines, lines.  Forgetting that and just trying to aim at the middle of a big fat tree that was square behind in the middle of the green was a struggle, haha.  She just processes things differently but IMO was having a "big picture" issue and we'll see if looking at the situation, the target, knowing what it should look like when she's setting up, etc. is helpful - maybe it won't be but she wanted to try something different.

 

Whether I grip ahead or sole lightly with my right hand on the club while stepping in, I'm taking my proper grip 100% of the time, for me my grip is my grip, never really had any big issues with it, though it is slightly stronger in the right hand the last few years per Monte.  

 

So, I'm more Greg Norman with my setup and taking my grip.  But my grip isn't the root issue with my setup and alignment issues.

 

I haven't looked at Bradley Hughes for a long time.  He suggests Nicklaus did what he did, maybe subconsciously, to get his dominant left eye on the target while setting up, and suggests Norman's right eye dominance may have played into how he wanted to get a look at the hole.  Interesting.

 

Whatever works for you!

 

 

Jack and Greg had different ways of lining up the clubface, but there are more similarities than differences. I bet you don't fiddle with your grip when it's soled on the ground. If you do, the club could possibly be twisting in your hands. 

[Hawkeye77]

5 hours ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Jack and Greg had different ways of lining up the clubface, but there are more similarities than differences. I bet you don't fiddle with your grip when it's soled on the ground. If you do, the club could possibly be twisting in your hands. 

Those pics are totally unrepresentative of how Norman and Nicklaus established their grips as part of their pre shot routine.

 

Nicklaus established his off the ground before addressing the ball.  Norman SOLED HIS CLUB with his right hand, figured out his line/stance and put his left hand on the club.  You are just showing part of his waggle before resetting the club on the ground.  They really couldn't look much more different if you actually watch any video of how they do it, or watch or listen to either's explanations of how they do it.  It's a process, not a moment in time.

 

Nicklaus fluid as he steps into the ball, Norman static as he puts his club down and gets set.

 

Seve in between, he soles his club with his right like Norman, but hardly pauses.

 

Totally different, BUT effective because that's what worked for them.  

 

Norman didn't "fiddle", but his "when" was a soled club.

 

I don't "fiddle".  I put the club on the ground with my left hand grip established and then move the right on.  Works for me. 

 

So "when" is what works for the golfer and not an absolute.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Hawkeye77

[tthomasgolfer605]

32 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Those pics are totally unrepresentative of how Norman and Nicklaus established their grips as part of their pre shot routine.

 

Nicklaus established his off the ground before addressing the ball.  Norman SOLED HIS CLUB with his right hand, figured out his line/stance and put his left hand on the club.  You are just showing part of his waggle before resetting the club on the ground.  They really couldn't look much more different if you actually watch any video of how they do it, or watch or listen to either's explanations of how they do it.  It's a process, not a moment in time.

 

Nicklaus fluid as he steps into the ball, Norman static as he puts his club down and gets set.

 

Seve in between, he soles his club with his right like Norman, but hardly pauses.

 

Totally different, BUT effective because that's what worked for them.  

 

Norman didn't "fiddle", but his "when" was a soled club.

 

I don't "fiddle".  I put the club on the ground with my left hand grip established and then move the right on.  Works for me. 

 

So "when" is what works for the golfer and not an absolute.

I didn't start this to spark a debate. You're missing the point entirely. It's a simple way of making sure the grip won't slide around in the hands. Greg Norman waggled the club above the ball while adjusting his grip to where it felt right. He did that for a reason which I already explained. Why should I care how you go about it? A lot of people who grip it soled will have clubface control problems. I've seen it many times. 

[chipa]

I grip the club with my right hand only when I set up (like Mike Austin recommended), then I grip the left hand while the club is in the air and waggle a few times before swinging. I have seen a few pros do this and it seems to work so I'm always trying to remember to stick to this routine.

[Hawkeye77]

7 hours ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

I didn't start this to spark a debate. You're missing the point entirely. It's a simple way of making sure the grip won't slide around in the hands. Greg Norman waggled the club above the ball while adjusting his grip to where it felt right. He did that for a reason which I already explained. Why should I care how you go about it? A lot of people who grip it soled will have clubface control problems. I've seen it many times. 

Nobody is trying to debate it.  For the millionth time, do what works for you - but "when" isn't the same for everyone.  Examples were provided consistent and not consistent with the issue you experienced.  

 

Butch Harmon wants that club on the ground and pointing at the target, take the grip, waggling is waggling after that, but it's not set in stone either.  Many advocate soling the club and aligning the face and then gripping while the club is on the ground, doesn't have to work for you or anyone.

 

But if you want to make the claim, and now double down on it, that Norman did something he didn't do so it fits your narrative then you should expect to be corrected on that.

 

He absolutely did not "adjust his grip" while waggling his club above the ball.  He set his grip with the club soled to the ground.  Wiggling his thumbs a bit isn't adjusting his grip and he wouldn't adjust it waggling his club, lol.  Pretty easy to see just watching him over his career, he's talked about it in videos and looks like he even describes it on his website. https://shark.com/the-shark/golf-tips/lesson-4/ 

 

I would suggest it is absolutely HOW you grip the club and then finding a consistent setup and preshot routine that allows YOU to incorporate the grip that works best for you into your golf swing.  On the ground like Greg or as part of a more fluid motion off the ground like Jack, good luck finding video where they vary from their established routines.  That's a large part of what makes them good.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Hawkeye77

[tthomasgolfer605]

12 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

 

He absolutely did not "adjust his grip" while waggling his club above the ball.  He set his grip with the club soled to the ground.  Wiggling his thumbs a bit isn't adjusting his grip and he wouldn't adjust it waggling his club, lol.

Anyone who uses "lol" to get their point across is a complete wanker. Now go away.

[Hawkeye77]

Classic Norman - one of the best swings ever.

 

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

On the other hand, Martin Chuck, who knows a little about golf, advocates getting the target line picked out and taking the grip while holding the club standing behind the ball, only then moving in, grip established, to set the club on target and go.  Sort of like decision box/play box ideas of Pia and Lynn or Hal Sutton's idea of his "office" being behind the ball where decisions are made.

[Hawkeye77]

Watson soles the club and grips almost instantaneously, not surprising he's fast! 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2021 by Hawkeye77