Tell me why I'm wrong about putter shafts - *updated, put a Whiteboard in a putter and it's not terrible...*

[EDT501]

One of the latest trends is super stiff putter shafts which claim to offer more consistent performance on the greens by limiting deflection. Notably, the LAGP TPZ ($400) and BGT Stability Shaft ($250) seem to making a lot of noise, with Fujikura and others in the game as well. I’m not sure I buy that the putter shaft is really that important given the comparatively low speeds involved, but I am sure that I am an avid tinkerer and this seems like a fun experiment. However, I am not about to spend big $$$ on a putter shaft when the benefits are murky and what I have already works.

 

My question is this, if the benefits supposedly come from lower torque values and a stiff profile, why could one use an extremely stiff iron shaft to achieve the same at a much, much lower price. Am I missing something here?

 

In my random-shaft bag I have the following shafts I could cut down and use in a putter:

• Modus 3 125 TX
• DG X700
• C-Taper 130x

For basically the cost of a grip I could give it a whirl.

 

Even more out there… why not take a heavy, X flex wood shaft and tip the you know what out of it (using calipers to get the hosel diameter right) and slot that in? I’ve got a pair of og blueboad 103tx and could repurpose one for that. Kinda amused by the idea of having such a ridiculous putter shaft.

Edited August 27, 2021 by EDT501

[iknowbagu]

I'm right there with you.  Interesting?  Absolutely.  Actual real world results?  Extremely skeptical.

 

I hope you go the Blueboard route.  I might literally pee my pants if I got hooked up with someone on the course with a premium driver shaft frankensteined into their putter.  Please post pics if you actually go through with it.

Edited August 18, 2021 by iknowbagu
spelling is hard

[Laznasty]

I went with a stability shaft and love it, but I also wondered if using a fairway wood shaft could produce the same results. Let us know your thoughts if you end up going with the blueboard.

[Lobby]

People are really spending $400 on a putter shaft?

These are the end times, for sure

[jvincent]

37 minutes ago, iknowbagu said:

I'm right there with you.  Interesting?  Absolutely.  Actual real world results?  Extremely skeptical.

 

I hope you go the Blueboard route.  I might literally pee my pants if I got hooked up with someone on the course with a premium driver shaft frankensteined into their putter.  Please post pics if you actually go through with it.

 

I have an original satin PX wood shaft, yes they made those, frankensteined into my backup putter, a Hoganardi BHB5 DASS.

 

[StillCantPutt]

8 minutes ago, Lobby said:

People are really spending $400 on a putter shaft?

These are the end times, for sure

People spend $400 on driver shafts and you only use that about 12 times per round. You could argue that the Putter is the most crucial club in the bag as you use it about 30 times per round. 

[Wilsonian]

Why not just glue a piece of steel rebar to a putter head then?

 

At our course, the owner glued a rock to a branch for those that lose their putter to use.

[Fairway14]

$400 could purchase a series of 6 putting lessons that would help a player's putting performance a thousand times more than would a $400 putter shaft.

[EDT501]

2 minutes ago, StillCantPutt said:

People spend $400 on driver shafts and you only use that about 12 times per round. You could argue that the Putter is the most crucial club in the bag as you use it about 30 times per round. 

Yeah, but the forces involved are quite different. Takes a lot more engineering and exotic materials to keep something stable at 110+ mph than 3-5mph on a green. 
 

Look at me derailing my own thread haha. Not looking for a debate on the merits or lack thereof of premium putter shafts, I am looking for feedback on how those shafts differ from extremely stiff iron shafts with a side of enabling to help convince me that butchering an all time classic wood shaft is a worthwhile experiment.

[rsballer10]

4 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

$400 could purchase a series of 6 putting lessons that would help a player's putting performance a thousand times more than would a $400 putter shaft.

 

Even cheaper, time spent in the short game area at most munis is completely free! Plus, how much shaft deflection is there REALLY in a 20' putt?

Edited August 18, 2021 by rsballer10
grammar

[EDT501]

3 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

$400 could purchase a series of 6 putting lessons that would help a player's putting performance a thousand times more than would a $400 putter shaft.

For once I 100% agree with you, but that’s not the purpose of this thread. My question was if the benefits of a $400 shaft was low torque and an ultra stiff profile, why not use a cheaper alternative such as an extra stiff iron shaft to achieve the same thing at a lower price.

 

I have no illusion this will change my putter results, but part of my enjoyment of golf is being a hobby builder and tinkering with stuff. 

[Thayneil]

13 minutes ago, StillCantPutt said:

People spend $400 on driver shafts and you only use that about 12 times per round. You could argue that the Putter is the most crucial club in the bag as you use it about 30 times per round. 

i heard the  Manufacturers happily supply the same  shaft to OEMS  for $18?

[Fairway14]

2 minutes ago, EDT501 said:

 why not use a cheaper alternative such as an extra stiff iron shaft to achieve the same thing at a lower price.

 

Nobody will be able to see you flex.

[ShortGolfer]

It is about quality.  Folks are willing to pay that much to make sure they get the best and not screw around with what might work.

 

Yes, that shaft might work.  Or there may be a reason why it didn't work as intended and is now available for experiments.

[rsballer10]

2 minutes ago, EDT501 said:

For once I 100% agree with you, but that’s not the purpose of this thread. My question was if the benefits of a $400 shaft was low torque and an ultra stiff profile, why not use a cheaper alternative such as an extra stiff iron shaft to achieve the same thing at a lower price.

 

I have no illusion this will change my putter results, but part of my enjoyment of golf is being a hobby builder and tinkering with stuff. 

 

If you wanted to tinker on the cheap, X flex wedge shaft would be the way to go. Wedge shafts will have the stiffest profile of a taper tip iron set. For .370 parallel, tip trim according to the stiffest wedge flex instruction. My opinion is I prefer the softer feel of the old school putter shafts, helps my rhythm and feel.

 

You could also look into the KBS putter shaft selection ($$$ pricier) but still nowhere near $400.

[dnong]

You can ask the same thing about why people would buy a $10,000 watch.

[Guest RobS]

You could use an extra stiff wedge shaft.  125gr and 37" is a pretty common raw spec for a putter shaft which is in line with wedge shafts.  Not sure you'd see any benefit other than matching a preferred feel.  I hit identical putter heads with steel, BGT Stability and the X-Firm Fuji MC on SAM & Quad and saw zero measurable performance advantage.  A given player may react differently to a different feels but I think these specialty shafts are like SST Pure.  It doesn't hurt and might help so some players gain confidence from taking advantage of anything that could possibly give them an advantage.

[DFS PFD]

These LAGP shafts have a cost of less than $20 in materials and manufacturing I'd wager, most of the cost is only for exclusivity, and to make sure the board of directors like the bottom line for ROI. As far as performance goes, everyone has their own anecdotes, but I don't see these shafts in the majority of putters on tour, or high level amateur play. I've tried BGT, LAGP, and Fuji, with zero measurable success over 10 rounds of comparison. Feel isn't "better", weight was very different, and I didn't start making or missing more putts from 5'-10'-25'. In fact with LAGP I averaged 1.2 more putts per round. But I have been very skeptical from the start, maybe if you really believe in them it will make a difference, but they seem to be a placebo IMO. 

 

Yes several tour players have LAGP in the bag consistently (Bryson/DJ, who are also board members/investors of LAGP), other players like Rickie/Hideki etc they seem to try and move away after a tournament or two never really committing, since playing and putting well is their financial investment, rather than advertising their brand or product ala Bryson/DJ. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by DFS PFD

[Bad9]

I read the thread title and entered the thread to disagree with whatever you were posting. Once I read your post I totally agree with you.😀

[Bad9]

1 hour ago, ShortGolfer said:

It is about quality.  Folks are willing to pay that much to make sure they get the best and not screw around with what might work.

 

Yes, that shaft might work.  Or there may be a reason why it didn't work as intended and is now available for experiments.

 

Folks who spend that much are more likely to be players trying to buy improvement rather than work at it.

[jgard320]

36 minutes ago, RobS said:

You could use an extra stiff wedge shaft.  125gr and 37" is a pretty common raw spec for a putter shaft which is in line with wedge shafts.  Not sure you'd see any benefit other than matching a preferred feel.  I hit identical putter heads with steel, BGT Stability and the X-Firm Fuji MC on SAM & Quad and saw zero measurable performance advantage.  A given player may react differently to a different feels but I think these specialty shafts are like SST Pure.  It doesn't hurt and might help so some players gain confidence from taking advantage of anything that could possibly give them an advantage.

 

This is the way to go. Wood shafts are significantly softer than iron shafts because they're designed with heads less than 200 grams in mind. A putter, weighing roughly 370 grams, is almost twice as heavy as a wood shaft is designed for. Even max tipping won't account for that difference. Plus, even the 100g wood shafts are about 30 grams lighter than a putter shaft. So that could even throw off your timing.

 

But if you're going to do that, why not just get something like a c-taper putter shaft that is designed to be stiffer and handle the heavy weight?

[bazinky]

I know my putter shaft has a lot of deflection going on when I helicopter it after a nice 3-putt!

Edited August 18, 2021 by bazinky

[mcounci2]

I play an X100 in my Squareback 2.  I like murdered out clubs, had the head coated black and am using the black onyx X100 9i shaft.  Works great, do recommend.

[mcounci2]

4 minutes ago, bazinky said:

I know my putter shaft has a lot of deflection going on when I helicopter it after a nice 3-putt!

 

I find helicopter benefits from a stiffer shaft more than tomahawk

[DLiver]

38 minutes ago, Bad9 said:

 

Folks who spend that much are more likely to be players trying to buy improvement rather than work at it.

Hey I resemble that remark! I work really hard at improving my game, but am also willing to try and buy improvement too!

[EDT501]

27 minutes ago, jgard320 said:

 

This is the way to go. Wood shafts are significantly softer than iron shafts because they're designed with heads less than 200 grams in mind. A putter, weighing roughly 370 grams, is almost twice as heavy as a wood shaft is designed for. Even max tipping won't account for that difference. Plus, even the 100g wood shafts are about 30 grams lighter than a putter shaft. So that could even throw off your timing.

Thanks, this is the type of sanity check I was looking for. I'd thought about the total weight issue and am confident I could manage that. As for the head-weight and flex issue I do prefer a lighter club head, which helps, but agree that even with 4-5" tipping it might not be enough to accomplish what I am looking for. 

30 minutes ago, jgard320 said:

But if you're going to do that, why not just get something like a c-taper putter shaft that is designed to be stiffer and handle the heavy weight?

Where is the fun in that haha

[dlow206]

In my opinion, there is a lot of feel to putting. We often talk about the difference in feel between an insert putter vs. a milled putter or even between two different inserts from the same OEM, or even how a milling pattern affects feel. The graphite putter shafts can be built to feel different from each other. For example, the Stability shafts, especially the original, feels really really stout to me and i find i actually start to struggle with distance control when the shaft feels too stout. However, right now I have an Accra shaft in my putter and it is still a pretty stiff shaft, but has more feel to me than the Stability shaft. And then there are really soft putter shafts, like the Fuji smooth, which is going to feel really soft compared to pretty much any other putter shaft on the market. 

[Cwebb]

I'm the opposite.  I like a relatively soft putter shaft.  In my experience, a board stiff shaft doesn't help putting at all.

 

I'd rather use the old classic "pencil shaft" than anything that is extra stiff 

[mogc60]

Are putter shafts worth it? That’s up to the owner. You’re not wrong in your post, but you’re also not right either. All shafts, putter shaft or otherwise are designed for a certain playing characteristic. That 7.0 project X or X flex c taper shaft was designed for iron shots. Can it be used in a putter of course it can. Can you use a KBS one step in your 7 iron? You bet you can. The good news is we have so many choices of shafts to use regardless of the clubs we are trying to dial in. For me I’m really liking the CT Tour putter shaft and quite like the one step as well. Tried a stability and didn’t like the feel. Sold it for basically what I bought it for. There is no right or wrong it’s just personal preference. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by mogc60

[markheardjr]

I putted with an X100 8i shaft cut down to play 33.5" for several years and got along great with it. I have used a UST Frequency Filter for the last 8ish years though. I like how the vibration is dampened with the USTFF, the X100 provided a LOT of feedback. But the flex of the X100 vs the USTFF is negligible IMO. As long as it doesn't lag with longer putts, its "stiff" enough.

 

I don't think you need to spend $400 for a graphite putter shaft if your goal is solely to go stiffer / lower torque to reduce deflection.

 

The only shafts I have found un-putt-able are really soft graphite shafts that I see come stock in some putters. I have a Bridgestone TD-03 and you can see/feel the lag in the shaft on putts. No bueno. Distance control was very poor.