Bryson says he is now compressing dimple edges on putts

[JaNelson38]

DP

Edited October 11, 2021 by JaNelson38

[mat562]

Like measuring temperatures of water in a beaker with a glass thermometer, plotting a graph, and interpolating an answer in degrees centigrade to nine decimal places.

Edited October 11, 2021 by mat562

[MattyO1984]

56 minutes ago, JaNelson38 said:

I find it funny how so many people think professional golfers - who spend hours upon hours to get their equipment tailored to exact specificity with regards to lie, loft, launch angle, spin, etc - suddenly think stuff like this regarding the golf ball is somehow overly scientific.

 

Is Bryson full of crap?  I don't know.  But I do know every pro who is teeing it up this weekend at the CJ Cup will have a trackman on them while they hit on the range.  Every tour player who sees a equipment rep for a fresh wedge or a different driver shaft will have specifications to the tenth of a degree or a single gram of weight that they are expected to fulfill.  Pretty much every player who is putting on the practice green will either have a teacher or some sort of putting aid on the green helping with things like speed and aim.  And every player who tries out a prototype golf ball will be looking at every single detail before putting it in play.

 

Studying the characteristics of a golf ball is hardly something that tour professionals ignore.  Switching ball makes and brands has wrecked careers on Tour.  Why is looking at or studying how a golf ball reacts off the putter face any different?

 

I don’t think anyone would take any issue if he were simply studying how the ball reacts off the putter and at it’s most basic that is what he is doing. What people are getting at is just how ridiculous precise he is claiming to be…hey, it helps feed into the narrative that he has created for himself but honestly, it seems part and part of the guy being more invested in this persona that he created for himself rather than anything else. 

[doc52]

He is not the first to come to this conclusion...

 

 

 

[tiderider]

19 hours ago, tacklingdummy said:

 

Bryson is not pulling the info from thin air, he is basing it on science. He got the information from scientific studies that have been done on "dimple error". There is a fair amount of information on "dimple error". Notably Dave Pelz has information about dimple error in his book "The Putting Bible". Albeit it is a small error, for the best players in the world hitting thousands of putts and a missed putt could mean the difference between winning or making a cut and playing for millions of dollars, it does have some consideration. From what he said and what I read from Pelz, it seems like there are some strategies to help combat dimple error. To me, it is not much different than other errors the industry talks about like shaft puring, products to find center of gravity of golf ball, skidding of putts, etc. 

 

http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/~cross/GOLF/GOLF.htm

2nd sentence in the report: The most important shot in golf is the putt.

 

study is shiite ... 

 

 

[RCGA]

It's funny how you have Bryson "studying" this, and then you have a golfer like DJ who probably couldn't tell you what model of ball he plays. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by RCGA

[JaNelson38]

45 minutes ago, MattyO1984 said:

 

I don’t think anyone would take any issue if he were simply studying how the ball reacts off the putter and at it’s most basic that is what he is doing. What people are getting at is just how ridiculous precise he is claiming to be…hey, it helps feed into the narrative that he has created for himself but honestly, it seems part and part of the guy being more invested in this persona that he created for himself rather than anything else. 

 

How is what Bryson is trying to do with the ball off the putter any different than a touring pro measuring how open their driver face needs to be at impact?  Or how many grams a shaft has to be to get optimal ball flight?  Or what kind of lie angle do you need on your short irons?

 

I mean, if DJ goes to the TaylorMade rep and says he needs his driver open an additional a quarter of a degree, I doubt the TM rep is going to laugh at him and tell him he's some science wonk who doesn't know what he is talking about.  

 

Golf is a game where its equipment for the top level player is measured in tenths of degrees and its weights are added and subtracted in single grams.  While some tour pros probably wont get as 'scientific' as Bryson is with regards to the golf ball, I guarantee every Tour pro out there is 100% invested in every piece of equipment that is in their hands, including telling their OEM's to make prototypes and something completely different than the run-of-the-mill stuff.  

Edited October 11, 2021 by JaNelson38

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Bryson's putting was ranked 23rd for 2021 season and has never ranked better than 15th. So while a lot of his peers are better putters  they don't seem to worry about the dimples, do they? 

[EDT501]

10 minutes ago, RCGA said:

It's funny how you have Bryson "studying" this, and then you have a golfer like DJ who probably couldn't tell you what model of ball he plays. 

DJ cleans his grooves between practice wedge shots so he gets good readings on spin rates - anyone who does that also knows exactly what they’re playing and why.

[JaNelson38]

25 minutes ago, RCGA said:

It's funny how you have Bryson "studying" this, and then you have a golfer like DJ who probably couldn't tell you what model of ball he plays. 

 

To this day I still dont know why people think DJ doesn't care or has no clue out there.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

8 minutes ago, EDT501 said:

DJ cleans his grooves between practice wedge shots so he gets good readings on spin rates - anyone who does that also knows exactly what they’re playing and why.

@JaNelson38

I think @RCGAwas referencing some aloofness from DJ when he was asked about a putter a while back and all he knew was the color of it or something similar. It was rather humorous 🙂

Edited October 11, 2021 by BlackDiamondPar5

[JaNelson38]

15 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Bryson's putting was ranked 23rd for 2021 season and has never ranked better than 15th. So while a lot of his peers are better putters  they don't seem to worry about the dimples, do they? 

 

Are you saying being 23rd in putting on the PGA Tour is not good?

 

I'd say getting almost a half a stroke per round over your competitors in putting is pretty decent.  But thats just me.

[EDT501]

Just now, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

I think @RCGAwas referencing some aloofness from DJ when he was asked about a putter a while back and all he knew was the color of it or something similar. It was rather humorous 🙂

Fair enough. I think DJ leans into the "don't care" persona as much as BDC leans into his pseudo-science.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

3 minutes ago, JaNelson38 said:

 

Are you saying being 23rd in putting on the PGA Tour is not good?

 

I'd say getting almost a half a stroke per round over your competitors in putting is pretty decent.  But thats just me.

Why would you think I'm saying 23 not good? I point it out because there's 22 guys that putt better and wondering if  they are concerned about dimples? 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

I found the DJ comment... I think it made some WRX equipment geeks heads explode 🙂

https://www.instagram.com/p/CPEZuDZAVWg/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=embed_video_watch_again

 

[bscinstnct]

59 minutes ago, tiderider said:

2nd sentence in the report: The most important shot in golf is the putt.

 

study is shiite ... 

 

 

 

I found this. And, if even remotely true, I can’t imagine how this dynamic has not been far more a prominent issue for players and the golf media

 

“On a 3 to 4 foot putt, when the ball is struck on the corner of a dimple, you can expect the ball to roll off line anywhere from 1/16 of an inch to as much as 7/8 of an inch on a fast green”

 

https://www.kansascitygolfacademy.com/post/golf-ball-dimples

 

 

[RCGA]

 

1 hour ago, EDT501 said:

DJ cleans his grooves between practice wedge shots so he gets good readings on spin rates - anyone who does that also knows exactly what they’re playing and why.

 

1 hour ago, JaNelson38 said:

 

To this day I still dont know why people think DJ doesn't care or has no clue out there.

 

47 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

I found the DJ comment... I think it made some WRX equipment geeks heads explode 🙂

https://www.instagram.com/p/CPEZuDZAVWg/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=embed_video_watch_again

 

 

lol

[Jc0]

49 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

I found this. And, if even remotely true, I can’t imagine how this dynamic has not been far more a prominent issue for players and the golf media

 

“On a 3 to 4 foot putt, when the ball is struck on the corner of a dimple, you can expect the ball to roll off line anywhere from 1/16 of an inch to as much as 7/8 of an inch on a fast green”

 

https://www.kansascitygolfacademy.com/post/golf-ball-dimples

 

 

 

Because it's a short putts only issue and there are a ton of ways to reduce the effect. To me doesn't even affect the average player because their greens aren't fast enough. You are essentially looking at 3-4 ft putts on tour speed greens when the ball has to be died in the hole where this is going to have the greatest affect. On longer putts or slower greens you hit it to hard for it to happen, on shorter you don't notice because the ball still goes in the hole. Also this is only an issue on firm faced putter and firm ball. On a soft face putter or softer ball either the face compresses or the ball compresses more easily which increase the contact surface so the dimple edge is no longer an issue. 

 

 

[tacklingdummy]

57 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

I found this. And, if even remotely true, I can’t imagine how this dynamic has not been far more a prominent issue for players and the golf media

 

“On a 3 to 4 foot putt, when the ball is struck on the corner of a dimple, you can expect the ball to roll off line anywhere from 1/16 of an inch to as much as 7/8 of an inch on a fast green”

 

https://www.kansascitygolfacademy.com/post/golf-ball-dimples

 

 

 

Yeah, 7/8 of an inch on a 4 foot putt is substantial. That is a quote from Pelz "Putting Bible" book. The article also states "players who use a harder ball will see this affect their short putts even more so than a player using a softer ball," which makes sense because harder edges of dimples will deflect more. It also would seem that a softer putter insert may aid in less deflection or the groove design of the putter face. Interesting stuff. 

[wobgon]

Perhaps one poster in this thread should remove tackling from his name.

[Soloman1]

Bryson, Pelz and others who have studied this effect are not wrong. It's just part of the gory details of golf. A soft insert can reduce the effect.

 

If you think it's not true, prove it.

[doc52]

Bryson went from mid 140s for putting strokes gained to low 20s in the span of 2 years, I think his "over-thinking" is working well.

[Socrates]

19 hours ago, straightshot7 said:

He said this on a podcast...and I don’t think he was saying that he is going to compress short putts or hit them harder.

 

I think the point he was getting to is that he worked with Bridgestone to design the ball so this doesn’t happen or that he lines the ball up so that he doesn’t hit the edge incorrectly.

 

 

 

 

 

He can always troll eBay for early 2000's ProV1's.  Those had a nice flat seam.

[bscinstnct]

All these guys made 100% of their 3 footers in the 2021 season. And the tour average was 99.5%.

 

Is this really an issue?

 

Or is it more like if you miss a 3 footer. You just put a bad stroke and misread the putt?

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by bscinstnct

[BlackDiamondPar5]

38 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

Bryson, Pelz and others who have studied this effect are not wrong. It's just part of the gory details of golf. A soft insert can reduce the effect.

 

If you think it's not true, prove it.

@Jc0

So if this is really an occurrence, do you know how other players that putt better than Bryson, deal with dimples? 

 

FYI BDC ranked 55th in 2021 for putts from 3-5 feet. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by BlackDiamondPar5

[Soloman1]

Tour Balatas had a seam. You aligned the seam horizontally off the tee and vertically when putting. You made contact with the seam, not a dimple, when putting. That was unless you were a total whack job and couldn't putt a lick... like me.

[wildcatden]

Thsi is why I putt with these bad boys.  Consistent dimple squashing. 

 

[Steele47]

7 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

Tour Balatas had a seam. You aligned the seam horizontally off the tee and vertically when putting. You made contact with the seam, not a dimple, when putting. That was unless you were a total whack job and couldn't putt a lick... like me.

 

Yeap.   I remember reading a Popular Mechanics article which put forth what you mention above.  To this day I'm still conscious of it when teeing up or putting.  Just a long held habit I suppose.

 

 

[Soloman1]

28 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

So if this is really an occurrence, do you know how other players that putt better than Bryson, deal with dimples? 

 

FYI BDC ranked 55th in 2021 for putts from 3-5 feet. 

 

We don't know how much the dimple thing affected his missed putts, so there is no way to compare. His solution was to begin hitting those putts more firmly. Do the people ahead of him, hit more firmly, align better, read the line better, putt the face more squarely, impact with more or less AoA, use different balls with different dimple patterns, use different face materials, etc.? A lot of variables...

 

Can it affect putts? Yes. Can ball design affect it? Yes. We could calculate the odds of it happening from measuring the geometry of the dimple pattern for a ball. I'm not going to do it, but maybe someone will. 🙂

 

The real questions is how does he reduce that variable?

 

Oh, it's a variable alright, but it's messy.

 

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Soloman1

[Jc0]

29 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

@Jc0

So if this is really an occurrence, do you know how other players that putt better than Bryson, deal with dimples? 

 

FYI BDC ranked 55th in 2021 for putts from 3-5 feet. 

 

By hitting their putts online better. At 4 ft the max miss from that article was 7/8" so if the putt is hit online it will still go in. Also pros tend to hit their short putts firm. Notice how a lot of time when a pro misses a 3 footer they have a 3-5 footer coming back. By hitting it that firm you compress the cover and reduce the effect this has. Quite a few pros say they feel more confident hitting their short putts firm and this may be why.