Stroke Lab EXO 7, Wilson and Lynx putters converted to center balanced.

[Nels55]

A friend of mine got fitted for a L.A.B. putter and I tried it out a few times and found the feel interesting.  At first I thought that I could not feel where the face was pointing which I did not like but then I noticed that it swung back and through pretty nicely.  Anyway the putter got returned as my friend did not like it much but after reading stuff about torque or lie angle balanced putters I got more interested so I did a few experiments on an old putter and decided to pursue something a little better.  Looking through my odd assortment of putters I decided that the Stroke Lab putter looked like a good candidate to get modified.  So I cut the shaft mounting stalk off and got busy LOL.

 

It took me a bit of fiddling to figure out how to mount the shaft where it would intersect the COG exactly but I did manage it.  The putter now will sit on a couple of straight edges in any position that I move it to.  

Here is what it looks like in playing position:

A few more pics:

 

I like the feel of the putter a lot and I have played one round with it and felt like I putted pretty well with 28 putts and 65 feet of putts made.  One 3 putt LOL but that's life!  I guess that most folks would think that it would be smarter to buy and Edel or L.A.B. putter but I like doing projects like this so...

[Hunteruu]

Props for some DIY! Odyssey does already makes a production version of this essentially though.

 

They call it the Odyssey Stroke Lab Big Seven Tow Up. An even older model was called the backstryke where the shaft enters in the center rear. 

 

Interestingly enough L.A.B. gives it praise when they put it on their little torque revealing tool and say it's Odysseys best design when it's related to torque. 

 

I liked the putter, but on miss hits, I felt the clubhead twist when I got too far out on the toe and the heal because of where the shaft was. 

 

With yours a little closer to the face, I can see that being reduced. Overall, if you like it, and it works, go for it! A little coverup paint on the welds and it would be hard to even notice I think. 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Hunteruu

[Nels55]

@Hunteruu, the shaft intersects the COG at an identical spot in the Big Seven putter that you pictured in your post so the twisting would be the same in either putter.  The point where the shaft connects with the putter has no effect other then visual and possibly feel.  Odyssey uses shaft bend to accomplish lining the shaft up with the COG which is something that I considered doing but decided to go with the direct attachment point as that allowed more flexibility and was easier to adjust to find the COG which I did by using various sized spacers between the face and the shaft attachment fitting that I fabricated.  Once I got the correct spacing I made a spacer out of round stock and then epoxied the whole thing in place at a lie angle of 78 degrees.  I don't notice any extra twisting on off center hits with my setup. 

[ShakeyT]

Nice. How did you attach the bolt that the shaft is connected to?

[Nels55]

56 minutes ago, ShakeyT said:

Nice. How did you attach the bolt that the shaft is connected to?

Thanks!

 

Funny you should ask that as the attachment point failed today on the second round that I played with the putter!  The shaft is a long lever and it puts a lot of torque on the bolt.  I think it failed while I was fixing a ball mark.

 

Original stud attachment:
I drilled a hole in the center of the face from the back side being careful not to go too deep.  I tapped the hole with a 1/4-20 bottom tap but could not get many threads in there and even though I epoxied the bolt in place it was not enough to hold it for very long.  I was thinking that it might not hold when I put it together and I was right.  After the  fact I considered that it might have been better to drill a slip fit for some 1/4" round stock threaded on one end and epoxy that in place.

 

Instead of drilling the hole out after I took it apart today I decided to tap the hole a bit further down and then modified the bolt a bit by grinding off some the threads at the tip so that there is more material for the epoxy to grab.   I test fit and have epoxied in place, waiting for the epoxy to cure:

 

I also modified the shaft attachment piece with a slot that fits over the bar that runs parallel with the bolt.  This mod should keep the shaft in place quite well I think.

 

It's rather ugly but that is what happens when I make stuff up as I go along which is pretty much how I do things.  LOL I have a lot of ideas for better setups and if I started again I would do things a bit differently.  Anyway I do believe that this will get the job done on this one.  

[callawayjay]

I’ve been messing with the big 7 toe up after finding it cheap and I must say it’s interesting. It seems to be a lot more stable and coming from 5 years + of a 7s it’s not hard to look at. Reminds me of the og futura 

it rolls the ball nicely 

[halliedog]

Oppenheimer, is that you?  🤣

[Nels55]

Okay a little bit of a progress report I guess.  So far this modified putter seems to working pretty good.  The completely balanced effect seems to work well with my mostly back and through stroke and I seem to be able to line it up well.  I have used it for 8 rounds which is still a small sample size but my putts per round has dropped from 31.0 to 28.4 and my average feet of putts made for 18 holes has gone from 45 to 54.  Also my 3 putt rate was 1.3 per round and that has dropped to .3 per round. 

 

The data could be a real trend or it could just be a blip, I don't know.  I do know that putting with this putter makes me feel really happy and when I pick up one of my other putters I don't get the same happy feeling LOL.  Hopefully I can continue putting well with it for a while!  

 

The main problem that I have right now is that I don't have a head cover that fits!  I ordered this one off of Amazon thinking it would fit but my mistake...

 

Unfortunately I don't have the sewing skills to fix it!

Edited November 2, 2021 by Nels55

[JungleJimbo]

1 hour ago, Nels55 said:

The main problem that I have right now is that I don't have a head cover that fits!

@Nels55: You might like to search for a head cover that fits the old odyssey backstryke putters.

 

Photo=example from “Craftsman putter covers”

 

 

Edited November 2, 2021 by JungleJimbo

[jomatty]

Very cool project!  I love stuff like this.  
 

quick question though.  What makes this a Lab style no torque putter and not just a center shaft putter?  Do you have any way to verify that it is torqueless?  I use a center shaft putter exclusively (Seemore) and have been wanting to try a lab putter, but so far have not pulled the trigger.  
 

basically I’m just curious if you have made a no torque putter or a cool center shaft conversion.  I don’t fully understand the in and outs of no torque putters and the different ways companies use to accomplish it.  Lab, axis and Edel all seem to approach it from a different angle and yours seems more in line with the lab method.  I thought the weighting and balance and all that good stuff was fairly sophisticated and precise though…anyways, anything you can tell me about the process of confirming no torque is very much appreciated.  I’ve been planning on a similar conversion, although my goal was just to make a center shaft with a little bit of reverse offset.  
 

very cool build and thank you for sharing!

[Nels55]

1 hour ago, jomatty said:

Very cool project!  I love stuff like this.  
 

quick question though.  What makes this a Lab style no torque putter and not just a center shaft putter?  Do you have any way to verify that it is torqueless?  I use a center shaft putter exclusively (Seemore) and have been wanting to try a lab putter, but so far have not pulled the trigger.  
 

basically I’m just curious if you have made a no torque putter or a cool center shaft conversion.  I don’t fully understand the in and outs of no torque putters and the different ways companies use to accomplish it.  Lab, axis and Edel all seem to approach it from a different angle and yours seems more in line with the lab method.  I thought the weighting and balance and all that good stuff was fairly sophisticated and precise though…anyways, anything you can tell me about the process of confirming no torque is very much appreciated.  I’ve been planning on a similar conversion, although my goal was just to make a center shaft with a little bit of reverse offset.  
 

very cool build and thank you for sharing!

To be torque or lie angle balanced the shaft has to intercept the center of gravity of the head.  My method of doing this was drill a hole in the back of the head in the very center and then install a stud.  I also fabricated a shaft attachment piece that fit over the stud and could be tightened in place which gave me complete adjustment of lie angle.  Anyway the stud made the putter 'face balanced'.  I then put in different sized spacers to carefully move the shaft to find the point where it intercepted the actual COG of the head making the head torque balanced.  I tested for torque balance first by simply holding the shaft on my finger with putter balanced to see if it had a tendency to roll face up or toe up etc.  When I felt like I was getting close testing on my finger I started setting the shaft on a couple of straight edges on a table and testing to see if the head had any tendency to roll to any orientation.  Once I had the spacer so that it would not move regardless of how I set it on the straight edges I had the club torque balanced.  

 

I thought when I first started the modification that I would probably have to add some weight on the head to compensate for my drilling the hole in the back of the head off center but that did not turn out to be the case.  I seem to have hit the center point pretty well.  Probably a bit lucky on that one.

 

Hopefully that makes sense?  I am quite sure that my club would swing straight back and through on the L.A.B. putter testing gizmo I forget what they called it.  LOL maybe I will make one of those one of these days...

 

[jomatty]

4 hours ago, Nels55 said:

To be torque or lie angle balanced the shaft has to intercept the center of gravity of the head.  My method of doing this was drill a hole in the back of the head in the very center and then install a stud.  I also fabricated a shaft attachment piece that fit over the stud and could be tightened in place which gave me complete adjustment of lie angle.  Anyway the stud made the putter 'face balanced'.  I then put in different sized spacers to carefully move the shaft to find the point where it intercepted the actual COG of the head making the head torque balanced.  I tested for torque balance first by simply holding the shaft on my finger with putter balanced to see if it had a tendency to roll face up or toe up etc.  When I felt like I was getting close testing on my finger I started setting the shaft on a couple of straight edges on a table and testing to see if the head had any tendency to roll to any orientation.  Once I had the spacer so that it would not move regardless of how I set it on the straight edges I had the club torque balanced.  

 

I thought when I first started the modification that I would probably have to add some weight on the head to compensate for my drilling the hole in the back of the head off center but that did not turn out to be the case.  I seem to have hit the center point pretty well.  Probably a bit lucky on that one.

 

Hopefully that makes sense?  I am quite sure that my club would swing straight back and through on the L.A.B. putter testing gizmo I forget what they called it.  LOL maybe I will make one of those one of these days...

 

Thank you for the explanation!  Are you still rolling it well?  

[Nels55]

Yep, the putter does seem to work really well for me.  I still have to practice though!  The greens are pretty bumpy right now which can definitely mess with a golfers head...

[Nels55]

Here is a look at my latest center balanced putter conversion.  It is a Wilson R90 that I had putted pretty well with over the years.  It really swings and feels good and I have made some putts with it in the last week or so.  LOL it is also just a bit on the ugly side but it suits it's owner well.  It did take a lot of bending to get it aligned correctly.

 

[5hort5tuff]

You sir...do some very interesting work. 

 

If i had to guess your version wouldn't be quite the same as the way LAB balances their putters.  I'm not even sure it is torque balanced. I'm pretty sure that it is a cool experiment and I respect the hustle. 

 

 

[Nels55]

41 minutes ago, 5hort5tuff said:

You sir...do some very interesting work. 

 

If i had to guess your version wouldn't be quite the same as the way LAB balances their putters.  I'm not even sure it is torque balanced. I'm pretty sure that it is a cool experiment and I respect the hustle. 

 

 

Thanks!  Not sure why you think that it is not lie angle balanced?  I can set it horizontally in any position and it will not roll to a different orientation like toe down or face balanced etc. which to my understanding is the same as a LAB putter.  It took a considerable effort to get it there LOL!  Torque balanced is actually toe up which I did not understand when I first started this thread.  At that time I thought that torque balanced and lie angle balanced where the same thing.  I did have it torque balanced at times while I was working on getting it bent so that the shaft exactly intersects the COG.  

[Nels55]

Here is a project I did converting a Lynx roll face putter to center balanced though it turned out to be toe up or torque balanced which seems to work pretty well.  I may leave it this way or possibly but a new putter shaft in and cut the shaft to make the head center or lie angle balanced.  The shaft that I put in is an old one that bent years ago to fit a John Riley putter.  I used it as an experiment since I don't have an new curved putter shafts laying around.  In it's current state it is similar to the Brick putter that Edel makes.  

 

Here is a look at the putter before I started:

 

Some pics in it's current state:

Toe up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If I could do it over I would probably twist the hosel 90 degrees instead of 180 as that would probably put the shaft more in line with the COG without having to bend it so much.

 

Anyway I am pretty happy with how this putter swings with my more or less straight back straight through stroke.  LOL probably my best effort so far...

 

[Nels55]

I put a new shaft in and with a bit of work I was able to balance the Lynx putter pretty well.  Here is a look at the balance with the putter sitting on a table top:

 

Toe down:

 

Toe up:

 

Face up:

 

Face down:

 

As you can see the balance is pretty good on this one and I do believe that having an unbiased putter makes putting easier for me as I am not fighting any tendency of the putter to twist during the stroke.  BTW if you happen to have a LAB putter I would be curious to see how it might perform on this test.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Nels55

[J.Bex]

@Nels55 you're awesome!  Love the DIY ingenuity, getting the shaft inline with the CG with a few methods.  The zero torque putters would perform the same as your table test shows, otherwise they're not zero torque.

[Nels55]

On 10/28/2023 at 10:40 PM, joostin said:

@Nels55 you're awesome!  Love the DIY ingenuity, getting the shaft inline with the CG with a few methods.  The zero torque putters would perform the same as your table test shows, otherwise they're not zero torque.

Thanks for the kind words much appreciated!  It is tricky to get the putters balanced, it takes a very slight bend to make a large change of balance and a lot of weight added or subtracted to make a small change.

 

I am thinking that I will see if I can get this Ray Cook Billy Baroo putter done next:

[jomatty]

Very interesting and cool!

[J.Bex]

Just wanted to point out to anyone thinking this is not the same concept as LAB or any zero/low torque putter... It is this simple.

 

Not simple to modify, like @Nels55 encounters, but simply getting the shaft to intersect with the CG of the putter head (yellow dot below).

 

Technically "Lie Angle Balance" can mean the CG is directly below (green dot) or even directly above (purple dot) where the shaft axis intersects with the head, when you hold the putter toe up.  Then you can balance it like @SeeMore Putters does in their video.  But if you simply get that axis inline with the CG, then you can balance it toe up, face up, or even spin it like LAB in this video.

 

Zero torque CG location:

CGs below are still "lie angle balanced":

 

You can manipulate any putter like this by modifying where the shaft axis crosses in relation to the CG.  LAB does a great job of catering to this.  Making unique designs that stand out definitely put them on the map.  Adjusting for lie angle, broomstick,  and even have different grips to allow for forward press of different angles while keeping the grip vertical.  But make no mistake... there's no magic dust in what they or others do.  It's this.

 

Bullseye putters are lie angle balance... and if you can spin it on your hand, like some mini golf puters, it's zero or low torque also!  They would just have relatively low MOI.

 

 

Axis1 goes a step further in getting CG forward and on with the face, which IMO is the most technically advanced CG location.  Center impact is directly on the CG, and there's zero gear effect on off-center hits when CG is directly on the face, only when it's behind or away from the face.

Edited November 3, 2023 by joostin
Added video links

[Nels55]

Here is a good explanation of the different ways to balance a putter:

My modified putters have been zero torque and not lie angle balanced though at 79 degree lie angle they are very close to lie angle balanced.   LOL at least I seem to be less confused then I was at the start of this particular endeavor.

 

Thanks to @J.Bex and @ThinkingPlus for helping me to understand.