Arg's Travel Log

[Argonne69]

10 minutes ago, Chanceman said:

Southern Dunes is another one that is evidently not the standard Florida track.

And yes Black Diamond too.

Both in the Orlando/Tampa orbit.

 

Yeah, Southern Dunes is excellent. I played it back in 2011. I've played the vast majority of the better public courses in the Orlando area. There are a couple remaining that I hope to play on this trip.

 

[krtgolfing]

19 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

Sitting here listening to the rain on Bessie's roof. It sounds like a freight train. I was going to drive out early to the Ocean Course hoping I could get in a quick round before the heavy rains came through this afternoon, but they seem to have arrived early. I assume the course has excellent drainage. Don't really want to spend top dollar to play in the rain and/or sloppy conditions. The forecast calls for off and on rain most of the day. Since there's not much else to do, I'll probably take a drive out there and then make the decision based on the local radar. Maybe there'll be an opening in the rain. If not, it'll be a nice drive. I've played the course before, so if I take a pass it won't be a huge disappointment.

 

 

I was curious if you would try to play in this rain today. Looks like you might get a break in the weather, but it's always changing down here. 

[mci711]

Black Diamond Ranch looks really cool and is on my list to play as well. I believe you have to stay on property, there is probably ways around that though. 

[sabram]

4 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

Yeah, Southern Dunes is excellent. I played it back in 2011. I've played the vast majority of the better public courses in the Orlando area. There are a couple remaining that I hope to play on this trip.

 

Steve Smyers returned to Southern Dunes around 2016 and redid some of the greens and bunkers. It's better than ever, and an excellent bargain worth playing again, especially if you haven't played it since 2011. 

 

Regarding some of the comments above about all Florida public golf being the same, I'd say there are a lot of exceptions to that notion. The Orlando area has some hilly sandy sites that have some very good courses that are not what you'd expect in Florida. Some of those courses are also really good bargains as long as you don't expect perfect conditioning.  Deltona, Victoria Hills, Red Tail, Mission Inn-El Campeon, Winter Park 9 and Bella Colina (all just North of Orlando) are some examples. Except for Bella Colina, those courses can usually be played for less than $60.  Further South are Championsgate Country Club, Championsgate International, Highlands Reserve (a little bit  scruffy, but a really fun layout with good greens and excellent piece of property  that the tourists don't know of... for about $40). Championsgate Country Club plans to go private, so is worth playing now, especially if you haven't played it before. I'd play every one of these courses again before going back to PGA National (unless my main focus was conditioning and checking courses off of lists).

[Argonne69]

Actually got lucky with the weather today. Well, mostly. The drive to the course in the rain took 45 minutes, and I arrived just as the trailing edge of the rain was passing. I was able to get out and stay dry for 16.5 holes. Normally I can zip around on an empty course in less than 3 hours. However, I was having a blast out there taking photos that I lost track of time, and got caught by a squall that managed to get everything wet. Oh well. I did see the sun a few times, so it wasn't all bad. 

 

'Not going to bore you with the details of the course. You've all seen it a million times. Let's just say it's a gem. The course just looks like it belongs here. Don't think I could get bored playing here. It's definitely one of my top 5 favorites. On top of that I had the course to myself after playing through the first group out on the 5th hole. Only thing better than playing a top 10 course is being the lead rabbit on a nice fall day. 

 

When I played it previously there was little wind, and the course was quite gettable. I think most of Pete's designs are scoreable if played from the right tees. However, today the winds were up, and combined with the soft conditions after last night's rains, it was playing tough. On the short par 4th I had 135 yds into the wind, and a 7 iron barely made the green. Ooof. 

 

Other than being soft it was in nice shape. Bunkers were freshly groomed. Greens were sweet. I'd say rolling 11. It's so nice to be able to simply put a light stroke on a putt without having to bash it. 

 

A bit of a struggle out there. Downwind holes weren't difficult (other than the long 18th in the rain) , but playing into the wind was a challenge. One birdie, six bogies, and a double. Lots of knockdown shots that were mainly coming up short of the green. I was happy with a bogie on the 17th. Overclubbed to ensure I didn't wind up short in the water, and wound up just over the green. 

 

When I was listening to the thunder this morning I was considering canceling the round. Didn't want to drop 3 Benjamins to get soaked to the bone. Glad I drove out here. Turned out to be a wonderful day on an iconic course. I'm sitting in the clubhouse enjoying a nice ale and a very tasty serving of warm bread pudding. Sure beats sitting in an RV. If you haven't made a trek to Kiawah, do it. It doesn't disappoint. Nine cows. 

 

[nutmegchoi]

Love The Ocean Course and Pete Dye.

Both one of my favorites.

[Argonne69]

Kiawah Island Ocean Course, Kiawah Island, SC 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Full photo set: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3hwvgn12dvx1kfg/AAAbdc6Mwu7hYiad2tz4sO2xa?dl=0

 

[hammergolf]

30 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

Actually got lucky with the weather today. Well, mostly. The drive to the course in the rain took 45 minutes, and I arrived just as the trailing edge of the rain was passing. I was able to get out and stay dry for 16.5 holes. Normally I can zip around on an empty course in less than 3 hours. However, I was having a blast out there taking photos that I lost track of time, and got caught by a squall that managed to get everything wet. Oh well. I did see the sun a few times, so it wasn't all bad. 

 

'Not going to bore you with the details of the course. You've all seen it a million times. Let's just say it's a gem. The course just looks like it belongs here. Don't think I could get bored playing here. It's definitely one of my top 5 favorites. On top of that I had the course to myself after playing through the first group out on the 5th hole. Only thing better than playing a top 10 course is being the lead rabbit on a nice fall day. 

 

When I played it previously there was little wind, and the course was quite gettable. I think most of Pete's designs are scoreable if played from the right tees. However, today the winds were up, and combined with the soft conditions after last night's rains, it was playing tough. On the short par 4th I had 135 yds into the wind, and a 7 iron barely made the green. Ooof. 

 

Other than being soft it was in nice shape. Bunkers were freshly groomed. Greens were sweet. I'd say rolling 11. It's so nice to be able to simply put a light stroke on a putt without having to bash it. 

 

A bit of a struggle out there. Downwind holes weren't difficult (other than the long 18th in the rain) , but playing into the wind was a challenge. One birdie, six bogies, and a double. Lots of knockdown shots that were mainly coming up short of the green. I was happy with a bogie on the 17th. Overclubbed to ensure I didn't wind up short in the water, and wound up just over the green. 

 

When I was listening to the thunder this morning I was considering canceling the round. Didn't want to drop 3 Benjamins to get soaked to the bone. Glad I drove out here. Turned out to be a wonderful day on an iconic course. I'm sitting in the clubhouse enjoying a nice ale and a very tasty serving of warm bread pudding. Sure beats sitting in an RV. If you haven't made a trek to Kiawah, do it. It doesn't disappoint. Nine cows. 

 

Last time I played The Ocean course it was blowing about 25… Good times. 

[sabram]

Ocean Course video photo tour

[golfortennis]

@heavy_hitter can chime in on some of the courses mentioned recently.  

 

As far as PGA National, other than checking off the box, it's not really worth it.  What part of Florida are you planning on going to?  Was WPB only for PGA National, or were you headed Miami way anyway?  There is a lot of truth to Florida courses being quite similar.  The big advantage to them is that you are playing in January, whereas Chicago, like a lot of the country, is not.  If you have connections for private clubs, between Treasure Coast and Jupiter and into WPB there are some great clubs.  Might be better use of funds than a resort stay.

 

    

[Argonne69]

9 hours ago, golfortennis said:

@heavy_hitter can chime in on some of the courses mentioned recently.  

 

As far as PGA National, other than checking off the box, it's not really worth it.  What part of Florida are you planning on going to?  Was WPB only for PGA National, or were you headed Miami way anyway?  There is a lot of truth to Florida courses being quite similar.  The big advantage to them is that you are playing in January, whereas Chicago, like a lot of the country, is not.  If you have connections for private clubs, between Treasure Coast and Jupiter and into WPB there are some great clubs.  Might be better use of funds than a resort stay.

 

    

 

I was planning to stop at St Augustine, Orlando (w/ a trip to Streamsong), Ft Myers/Naples. Wasn't really planning on the Atlantic coast south of Daytona until the idea of PGA National came up. However, if there are some decent public courses I would consider it. I do not have connections to get me on the private courses.

 

[5 O'Clock Charlie]

19 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

Kiawah Island Ocean Course, Kiawah Island, SC 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Full photo set: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3hwvgn12dvx1kfg/AAAbdc6Mwu7hYiad2tz4sO2xa?dl=0

 

 

Want to see how good my memory is having played it in 2012.

In order I think these are...

 

Hole 2

Hole 6

Hole 14

Hole 17

Hole 18

[golfortennis]

2 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

 

I was planning to stop at St Augustine, Orlando (w/ a trip to Streamsong), Ft Myers/Naples. Wasn't really planning on the Atlantic coast south of Daytona until the idea of PGA National came up. However, if there are some decent public courses I would consider it. I do not have connections to get me on the private courses.

 

 

Don't these people understand what a big deal you are?  🙂

 

I don't know that there is anything making it worth heading down there.  People talk about Abacoa, North Palm Beach CC, and I'm sure they are pretty decent courses.  Are they worth diverting for?  I'm not sure.  

[Argonne69]

4 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

Don't these people understand what a big deal you are?  🙂

 

I don't know that there is anything making it worth heading down there.  People talk about Abacoa, North Palm Beach CC, and I'm sure they are pretty decent courses.  Are they worth diverting for?  I'm not sure.  

 

Warm weather? I won't be in any hurry to start the trip north through the gulf states, so a few days or a week along the Atlantic wouldn't kill me. Lol. 

 

[golfortennis]

1 hour ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Warm weather? I won't be in any hurry to start the trip north through the gulf states, so a few days or a week along the Atlantic wouldn't kill me. Lol. 

 

 

Sorry, I meant WPB/Miami over west coast. No need to convince me of staying out states further north as long as you can!

[Argonne69]

4 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

Sorry, I meant WPB/Miami over west coast. No need to convince me of staying out states further north as long as you can!

 

I've played quite a a few public courses on Florida's west coast from Tiburon to World Woods. I think I may have played 3 in the West Palm Beach area. A stay on the east coast would probably give me a few more options. 

 

[caniac6]

My father played the muni in Palatka ( I probably misspelled it), and said it was really good. It’s an old Ross course that has been rated highly in some recent ratings. It looks to be fairly short, but he said it was very enjoyable, and had a real old time vibe.

[Argonne69]

I made the short drive down from Charleston to Hilton Head this morning, and followed that with a round at Hilton Head National. Meh. I guess one can expect a little letdown after playing the Ocean Course. Lol. Playing a mundane layout sure makes one appreciate the gems. 

 

Once again, HHN wasn't bad, just not particularly interesting. Very few notable holes, and too many that looked and played the same. Par 3s were boring. A couple of the long 4s had teeth, but otherwise it was pedestrian. Greens were benign, although they did have some subtle breaks that kept me guessing. 

 

Conditions were very good. Bunkers had plenty of sand, but needed grooming after yesterday's rain compacted it. Greens rolled smooth, but too slow for my liking. 9 at best. Pace was excellent thanks to the three groups that let me play through without hesitation. Much appreciated. 

 

Solid round. I put my i200s back in the bag, and it felt good to be able to hit a baby fade in addition to a draw. 'Just can't seem to work the PXGs left to right. One birdie and four bogies. Could have been much better, though. I had 4 or 5 good looks at birdie that ran out of gas and dived below the hole on the slow greens. 'Finally got it right on the 18th. 

 

If you're simply looking for another course to play while visiting HH, it'll suffice. However, you won't be overly impressed. Three cows. 

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by Argonne69

[Argonne69]

Hilton Head National GC, Bluffton, SC 

 

 

 

Full photo set: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jkafr2mskdfq2ao/AABiOshPUcXfHjbPat7wz0bea?dl=0

 

[nutmegchoi]

I just came back from HH two weeks ago.

Played Atlantic Dunes, Heron Point and Harbour Town.

While Atlantic Dunes and Heron Point were decent resort courses, I had so much fun playing Harbour Town.

6 Black Cats.

[heavy_hitter]

9 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

 

I was planning to stop at St Augustine, Orlando (w/ a trip to Streamsong), Ft Myers/Naples. Wasn't really planning on the Atlantic coast south of Daytona until the idea of PGA National came up. However, if there are some decent public courses I would consider it. I do not have connections to get me on the private courses.

 

PGA Champion Course would be unplayed if the Honda wasn’t there.  Course is too hard and the facility itself needs an Upgrade.  The other courses there are good and very generic.

 

South Florida has a lot of courses that are the same. 
 

St. Augustine I would think Slammer and Squire.  @iteachgolf would know a-lot about that area.

 

Streamsong has three awesome courses.  Black greens are gimmicky in my opinion though.  Largest greens area in the states.  Most courses greens are a 1/4 of the size.  These are also highly undulating greens.  Tee to green the course is great.  The greens can make anyone look like a clown.  Facility is in the middle of nowhere.  45 minutes if you want to wine and dine anywhere besides the resort.

 

A lot of good golf in Orlando area.  I know I would never play a Disney Course.
 

I am unfamiliar with West Coast Florida golf but know they have some real gems down that way.

 

 

[Argonne69]

The forecast tomorrow looks pretty wet, so I'm taking the day off to do a little sightseeing in Savannah. The beer scene looks to be on the light side, but hopefully I'll find something decent. Sea Pines (Atlantic) on Saturday should be fun. Sunday's round at Palmetto Dunes (AH) might be a little wet.

 

[sabram]

56 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

Streamsong has three awesome courses.  Black greens are gimmicky in my opinion though.  Largest greens area in the states.  Most courses greens are a 1/4 of the size.  These are also highly undulating greens.  Tee to green the course is great.  The greens can make anyone look like a clown.  Facility is in the middle of nowhere.  45 minutes if you want to wine and dine anywhere besides the resort.

 

A lot of good golf in Orlando area.  I know I would never play a Disney Course.

 

I love the greens on Streamsong Black. If you have a good caddie and are a decent putter they are a lot of fun. They remind me a lot of the greens Old Macdonald greens at Bandon. I can see how they are not everyone's cup of tea, but everyone I have taken there has had a blast playing them. I'd rather have my bad approaches land somewhere on a green and three putt than have it land in a pond, which is the more typical bad approach scenario in Florida.

 

I posted earlier in Arg's thread about some of the good  "under the radar" courses in the Orlando area. I played 100+ rounds in the Orlando area in the last 13 months (I retired). I play everywhere, including all the Disney courses. There's nothing wrong with the Disney courses, they're just not "special". I played Disney Magnolia a couple days ago and it was in good shape and for $60 can't complain.

[hammergolf]

9 hours ago, 5 O'Clock Charlie said:

 

Want to see how good my memory is having played it in 2012.

In order I think these are...

 

Hole 2

Hole 6

Hole 14

Hole 17

Hole 18

When the wind blows, any of the holes with tee boxes and greens are tough. Last time I played it was blowing about 25. I remember on #2 it was blowing into so hard you had to roast one just to carry the hazard and get to the fwy. Then on 10-13 you had to start it left of the Dunes and hope it stayed in the fwy… 

[mci711]

1 hour ago, sabram said:

 

I love the greens on Streamsong Black. If you have a good caddie and are a decent putter they are a lot of fun. They remind me a lot of the greens Old Macdonald greens at Bandon. I can see how they are not everyone's cup of tea, but everyone I have taken there has had a blast playing them. I'd rather have my bad approaches land somewhere on a green and three putt than have it land in a pond, which is the more typical bad approach scenario in Florida.

 

I posted earlier in Arg's thread about some of the good  "under the radar" courses in the Orlando area. I played 100+ rounds in the Orlando area in the last 13 months (I retired). I play everywhere, including all the Disney courses. There's nothing wrong with the Disney courses, they're just not "special". I played Disney Magnolia a couple days ago and it was in good shape and for $60 can't complain.

 

I agree. I have no problem with the greens on Black. Black is up there with Mammoth Dunes for me as just pure fun. The old mac comparison is very fair as well

[golfortennis]

3 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

 

I've played quite a a few public courses on Florida's west coast from Tiburon to World Woods. I think I may have played 3 in the West Palm Beach area. A stay on the east coast would probably give me a few more options. 

 

 

Then I would put the Treasure Coast into your options.  Base yourself in Port St Lucie.  You can spring for the Dye Course at PGA Village(the courses there are the best public courses in the area, but I'm not willing to say they are so much better to justify the premium for the green fees they charge.  I would skip the Ryder there, and frankly think the Dye is the best one.  Vero Beach may have some options but I'm not real familiar.

 

Hammock Creek, The Florida Club, and the Fox Club are some other options for decent courses.  Abacoa and NPB CC further south would be worth looking into(although, again, the green fees get up there).  

 

Of course, if you are looking to play name courses, some of these may not be to your liking.

[heavy_hitter]

2 hours ago, sabram said:

 

I love the greens on Streamsong Black. If you have a good caddie and are a decent putter they are a lot of fun. They remind me a lot of the greens Old Macdonald greens at Bandon. I can see how they are not everyone's cup of tea, but everyone I have taken there has had a blast playing them. I'd rather have my bad approaches land somewhere on a green and three putt than have it land in a pond, which is the more typical bad approach scenario in Florida.

 

I posted earlier in Arg's thread about some of the good  "under the radar" courses in the Orlando area. I played 100+ rounds in the Orlando area in the last 13 months (I retired). I play everywhere, including all the Disney courses. There's nothing wrong with the Disney courses, they're just not "special". I played Disney Magnolia a couple days ago and it was in good shape and for $60 can't complain.

Greens are pure.  You have to hit spots to get the ball to the hole in certain pin positions .  If you miss you are looking at 3-4 putts outside of 30 ft.  My perspective is from high level tournament golf with no caddies.

 

Have only been to the Disney Courses in the Summer and it is extremely hot and the swamp it was built on.  Hospitality and Palmer Management did a horrible job when we went to tournaments there.  Courses are just so so.  Shingle Creek a much better facility and course.

Edited December 9, 2021 by heavy_hitter

[heavy_hitter]

6 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

Then I would put the Treasure Coast into your options.  Base yourself in Port St Lucie.  You can spring for the Dye Course at PGA Village(the courses there are the best public courses in the area, but I'm not willing to say they are so much better to justify the premium for the green fees they charge.  I would skip the Ryder there, and frankly think the Dye is the best one.  Vero Beach may have some options but I'm not real familiar.

 

Hammock Creek, The Florida Club, and the Fox Club are some other options for decent courses.  Abacoa and NPB CC further south would be worth looking into(although, again, the green fees get up there).  

 

Of course, if you are looking to play name courses, some of these may not be to your liking.

North Palm Beach and Bayan Cay are great Nicklaus designs with really good views.

 

NPB CC is right on the intercostal and you can see huge yachts coming and going all day.  I think it is hole 4 or 5 that you can see DJ’s big ole yacht and home.

 

Another place you may want to see as a “different” Florida Course is Mission Inn El Campeon in Howey in the Hills.  There are a lot of tournament events at this course.  High Hills and lots of water.  Needs a little reno but a good and REALLY hard course.  This course is different for Florida because of the hills.  Resort in the middle of no where an hour north of Orlando.

 

It is really hard to get on Florida course this time of year as it is season.

[Bubb]

If you’re heading down around Naples, I remember being astounded at the immaculate conditioning at The Rookery during a long stretch of 90+ degree days.

[sabram]

2 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

Have only been to the Disney Courses in the Summer and it is extremely hot ...   

Shingle Creek a much better facility and course.

You could say that almost every Florida course is hot and sticky in the Summer. The Disney courses are not more so than any other inland Florida course.  Streamsong can be brutal in the Summer.

 

I don't know when you last played Shingle Creek. It was remodeled a couple years ago to expand the hotel. They took away a few of the best holes there and replaced them with holes on different land that are not as good.